- cross-posted to:
- memes@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- memes@lemmy.ml
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Me talking about stalin with other marxists: he did lots of good, did some bad, we should evaluate his actions and make sure to not repeat them, while keeping the actions that enabled numerous successes. *lists multiple fuckups stalin did with the chinese civilwar, tito-stalin split, homosexuality ban, etc)
Me when talking to Liberals about stalin: Stalin is my father and leader
“I know that after my death a pile of rubbish will be heaped on my grave, but the wind of History will sooner or later sweep it away without mercy.”
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Y’know, over on Lemmygrad, a lib interloper asked if this was a legitimate quote from the man of steel himself and I had to dig up a Russian-language book (there is no english translation afaik) and to stumble my way through the cyrillic to find the source for this.
did you find it? your question mark is throwing me off
Whoops, sorry! Yep I did.
This quote is according to Molotov’s recollection. From Сто сорок бесед с Молотовым (140 Conversations with Molotov) by Felix Chuev:
Stalin himself, I remember, said during the war: “I know that after my death, my grave will be piled with rubbish. But the winds of history will ruthlessly dispel it!
Being able to read Cyrillic helps a lot, the text is similar enough to polish that I can fully understand it.
hexbear rules
Stalin did nothing wrong. Except stopping at Berlin.
its true, generally good guy that made great strides for lgbtq folks
Thats one of the things he generally did bad on, but he did massively improve the qol of impoverished queer folks, and improved the qol of queer folks in liberated territories.
saying that someone who recriminalised homosexuality did nothing wrong ‘because he improved the general quality of life’ sounds suspiciously like queer folk just being the cost of doing business
Yes Stalin was homophobic. He deserves criticism for this. Welcome to most people and countries (especially the Christian ones). I find it incredible that despite the fucking travesty that is the quality of life for queer folk in the USA, especially for black; indigenous; non-white peoples, certain folk have the gall to look back at a man born over 100 years ago, son to a poor family in a nation under the boot of Russian Empire and criticize him for not having perfect values when the common narrative of him as a monster is disrupted. Of course he wasn’t perfect, of course he deserves criticism where criticism is due. However, there are a significant set of actions which deserve praise, especially relative to his common depiction.
That being said, it’s not as if socialist governments that do well when it comes to queer rights are lauded for their efforts. The DDR made significant strides for the queer community yet is rarely (if ever) applauded in the west for this. Cuba still manages to get attacked on this front despite having the most progressive stance on the matter today. This criticism in this context never feels in good faith, it feels desperate and reaching for a way to conflate socialists and fascists.
Welcome to most people and countries (especially the Christian ones).|
I find it incredible that despite the fucking travesty that is the quality of life for queer folk in the USA
i wasn’t comparing stalins policies to other countries, people or the USA, i was commenting on ‘stalin did nothing wrong’
certain folk have the gall to look back at a man born over 100 years ago, son to a poor family in a nation under the boot of Russian Empire and criticize him for not having perfect values when the common narrative of him as a monster is disrupted
i wasnt commenting on him not being a monster, i was commenting on ‘stalin did nothing wrong’
That being said, it’s not as if socialist governments that do well when it comes to queer rights are lauded for their efforts. The DDR made significant strides for the queer community yet is rarely (if ever) applauded in the west for this. Cuba still manages to get attacked on this front despite having the most progressive stance on the matter today. This criticism in this context never feels in good faith, it feels desperate and reaching for a way to conflate socialists and fascists.
i wasnt commenting on socialists or their policies, i was commenting on ‘stalin did nothing wrong’
This criticism in this context never feels in good faith, it feels desperate and reaching for a way to conflate socialists and fascists.
congratulations, you discovered the flaw in an extremely serious statement made on the internet which is in no way a meme meant almost entirely to agitate propagandized libs
enjoy this portrait I drew of you as an award:
i didnt figure it was until folks actually defended it seemingly completely genuinely
you can tell because “its true, generally good guy that made great strides for lgbtq folks” is actually also not an extremely serious statement
He is also quoted as saying
Death solves all problems. No man, no problem.
True, Stalin was a more nuanced character that he is usually given credit for but he was still a paranoid and brutal man who was responsible for the deaths of a lot of innocent people.
Let’s not fall into the trap of either lionizing or demonizing historical figures.
He is also quoted as saying [blahblahblahbollocksbollocksbollocks]
No he isn’t. Maybe you should actually verify instead of spreading complete and utter bullshit with such confidence?
Let’s not fall into the trap of either lionizing or demonizing historical figures.
Yet here we are, with you attempting to demonise a historic figure by spreading bullshit.
responsible for the deaths of a lot of innocent people.
Every single US president in world history is too. Every single supporter of capitalism is responsible for 100million deaths every 5 years, what’s your point? You’re making an emotional attempt to demonise in one breath while pretending otherwise in the next.
You’re full of shit mate.
If you read my comment properly, I specifically said “he is quoted as saying …”, which is undeniably true.
Yet here we are, with you attempting to demonise a historic figure by spreading bullshit.
Saying that that Stalin was a brutal and paranoid man, amongst other things is a historically accurate statement.
If you think I’m promoting the standard, one dimensionals view that Stalin was evil incarnate, then you have completely failed to understand my point.
He is quoted as saying something he didn’t say. It is undeniably true that words where put in his mouth
I think we get your point
If you read my comment properly, I specifically said “he is quoted as saying …”, which is undeniably true.
Oh fuck off. Weasel words. How fucking slimey are you?
Saying that that Stalin was a brutal and paranoid man, amongst other things is a historically accurate statement.
Stalin was a soft kind grandpa compared to Lenin.
I like how the people actively pursuing plots against Stalin then also criticize him for being paranoid. I would be paranoid too if all of the richest people and institutions in the world were organizing nazi collaborator opposition against me.
like his best friend was killed by foreign agents, who wouldn’t be paranoid to hell?
Don’t you find it a little strange that this short bit of quote is so often repeated but we never hear the context for it?
When you hear it out of context it sounds callous and cruel, but it would be a very different statement if (for example) he said it in response to finding out Hitler killed himself or that some enemy had died of cancer or something.
And that’s not even taking into account the fact that it’s inherently very suspicious that nobody seems to be able to produce a source for the original context and attribution of the quote.
Whether the quote is aprocyphal or not, it seems fitting because of the way Stalin dealt with political opponents. The list of early Bolsheviks were rounded up and shot during Stalin’s purges is quite lengthy.
Let me just pop on my They Live sunglasses and give this post a reread
whether it’s true doesn’t matter because it fits my opinion of him
whether it’s true doesn’t matter because it fits
my opinion of himthe historical facts.FTFY
No investigation, no right to speak. If you don’t even have evidence he said it you’re just working backwards to justify your conclusion, which is what every westerner is taught. If you don’t have an actual source to cite don’t be arrogant and just accept that you made a mistake.
you’re just working backwards to justify your conclusion
And anyone who denies that the preponderance of evidence shows that Stalin was capable of considerable ruthlessness and brutality towards his own people is guilty of the same.
his own people
He said the line
If they hate him, it means he must have the right idea.
TBF liberals hate fascists, just significantly less than they hate communists.
A lot of liberals will actively support fascists if it means beating the evil leftists
nah, they hate the imagery of nazis (high school history and emergence of basic political ability), they don’t really know enough of what fascism is to hate it in any other form.
Ukraine comes to mind
Ukraine has shown that liberals will actively cheer on fascists as soon as somebody gives them permission to do so.
they hate us. That hate will lead them to cheer on fascists.
