• gregorum@lemm.eeEnglish
    232·
    6 months ago

    let’s just ignore how the pretext for this line was Data observing how, sometimes, terrorism is an effective vehicle for social and/or political change.

    edit: just to be clear, this isn’t a criticism, just an observation about the glibness of the meme as compared to the seriousness context.

      • gregorum@lemm.eeEnglish
        8·
        6 months ago

        that was Data’s whole point. Then, just as Picard was about to dish out a bunch of huffy, self-righteous moral indignation, their conversation got cut off by an incoming message or some other rather convenient interruption. Trek was often bold in how it approached controversial sociopolitical subjects. And, sometimes, it scampered off without honestly addressing them.

        this occasion was one of the latter.

        edit: although, one could argue that, due to the fact that Data got his comment in before Picard was able to give a self-righteous counter-argument, the writers, in fact, were quite brave. The comment was so controversial, in fact, the episode was banned in several markets which refused to air this episode, and it still remains banned in some places to this day.

        From Memory-Alpha:

        Due to political sensitivity, as Ireland was still in the midst of the Troubles when “The High Ground” aired in 1990, the reference to Irish unification and terrorism in the episode resulted in its removal from first-run in the United Kingdom. To date, some syndicating networks will not air the episode, and it was only in 2007 (fifteen years after its first run, nine years after the conflict ended in a peaceful manner) that it was broadcast on the BBC.

        • VioletTeacupEnglish
          21·
          6 months ago

          In fairness, it’s less controversial and more that the line is outright offensive. At the time, people were being murdered by acts of terrorismin in the troubles, so to wontonly say that those attacks are effective and will get results was extremely insensitive. It’s sort of like saying 9/11 was an effective use of terrorism shortly after it happened, or the 2015 Paris attacks.

          That being said, it’s still an interesting point that Data raises in the episode.

          • gregorum@lemm.eeEnglish
            21·
            6 months ago

            It’s sort of like saying 9/11 was an effective use of terrorism shortly after it happened

            here’s the thing, though: by no measure could this statement be considered even remotely true. if someone, very boldly, were, today, try to make the argument that “the Troubles were worth it,” I dare say that they’d have a good case for that argument, despite the heavy controversy which would come with it. The argument you propose, conversely, lacks the obvious evidentiary support required to substantiate such… an ambitious arguments yours.

            And I certainly don’t support it.

            edit: it’s a matter of factual and evidentiary support. come back with evidence to support your claims.

            • VioletTeacupEnglish
              12·
              6 months ago

              Do you want evidence that people died in the tororist attacks, or that the statement is offensive? As to the first, you’re free to read up on the history of the troubles yourself if you like. As to the second, it’s a matter of opinion, not fact, but considering that history, one that I feel is fair enough. As far as I’m concerned, comparing a single terrorist attack to a series of terrorist attacks is more than reasonable.

              • gregorum@lemm.eeEnglish
                11·
                6 months ago

                It’s sort of like saying 9/11 was an effective use of terrorism shortly after it happened

                here’s the thing, though: by no measure could this statement be considered even remotely true.

                what does the following statement have to do with it?

                Do you want evidence that people died in the tororist attacks, or that the statement is offensive?

                because, at no point, did anyone ask for evidence of nor call into doubt either of those claims.

                • VioletTeacupEnglish
                  11·
                  6 months ago

                  It was and still is unclear what you were asking me to prove. A comparison isn’t a statement of fact, it’s to illustrate how two things are similar. I further explained why I feel that it was fair to compaire them. If you want to keep picking things apart for the sake of it though, have at it.

          • porthos@startrek.websiteEnglish
            11·
            6 months ago

            In fairness, it’s less controversial and more that the line is outright offensive. At the time, people were being murdered by acts of terrorismin in the troubles, so to wontonly say that those attacks are effective and will get results was extremely insensitive. It’s sort of like saying 9/11 was an effective use of terrorism shortly after it happened, or the 2015 Paris attacks.

            I mean I get that it is a pretty touchy subject, but honestly at the end of the day the 9/11 attacks were stunningly effective at doing exactly what Bin Laden wanted us to do, get involved in a long drawn out war that undermined the stability of the US and accelerated its collapse.

            The asshole literally wrote this all out in a letter and I am glad it made the rounds recently because we took the bait hook line and sinker. If as a society stories had trained us to think of terrorism not as some existential evil that comes from satan but rather a brutal political/military strategy enacted to accomplish certain logical political aims we might have been more equipped to deal with a 9/11 response more rationally. Specifically maybe we wouldn’t have just signed off on US warhawks throwing Iraq into the mix for absolutely no good reason than imperialism (Bin Laden must have been whooping and hollering happy when he heard the US decided to get itself stuck in TWO endless wars because of his actions).

            • VioletTeacupEnglish
              11·
              6 months ago

              Interesting; I didn’t know that! It’s definitely an interesting subject to say the least.

  • Jo Miran@lemmy.mlEnglish
    182·
    6 months ago

    I got really hopeful during Brexit that Ireland would unite and Scotland would leave.

    • abbadon420@lemm.eeEnglish
      91·
      6 months ago

      Scotland could never leave. Britain doesn’t want to loose Scotland and Europe doesn’t want to split up all the British kingdoms and have them join one by one.

      Northern Ireland has a chance to leave the shithole that is brexit by joining Ireland, but does Ireland want that? You’re gonna spark a fire if you do that. The politics and rebellions of the 80’s are only dormant, the sentiment is far from gone.

  • Wanderer@lemm.eeEnglish
    64·
    6 months ago

    Americans need to stop cosplaying as Irish and acting like they even remotely understand the situation.