AI have no rights. Your AI creations are right-less. They belong in the public domain. If not, they are properties of the peoples whose art you stole to make the AI.
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What is the difference between AI and MSPaint? Its all just digital tools to make images. Copyrights are dumb across the board but this is no more or less dumb.
Your take license has been revoked. You are no longer allowed to have takes.
I have almost complete aphantasia and dysgraphia. I can describe a picture but I could never draw it even on a computer. Despite the technology to overcome my Neuro divergency being at my fingertips I shouldn’t own my creations because you don’t like the tools I used?
Ableist Classist Luddite. “Art is only for the few who can dedicate years of study to perfect their technique and fuck any technology that makes art more accessible. oh and digitally made music isn’t music.”
Ableist Classist Luddite. “Art is only for the few who can dedicate years of study to perfect their technique and fuck any technology that makes art more accessible. oh and digitally made music isn’t music.”
Even in the most generous terms, Marxism isn’t a promise that you will have every desire fulfilled. So I don’t really know why you said that.
AI isn’t a promise to make anything more accessible. Its a cash grab by giant corporations…accumulating the data of all art, text, sound, pictures into massively expensive computation frameworks for their own purpose. The Corporations are creating frameworks whose inputs they control and output is essentially copy and paste. Like saying classism on your inability to have SKILLZ when there are actual problems with AI being incredibly racist and controlled by misogynists like Larry Summers is like ughhh…just so self centered and myopic.
Ableist Classist Luddite
Wait just one sec comrade. Noone said you can’t use it, but you really think you should be entitled to make money as an artist? You can literally get a job as an AI prompt writer/engineer. But what you want is to be recognized as an artist.
Fine, then create a bunch of AI art, frame it, and take it to a gallery or to a market. Put it in a portfolio and display it on a website. Go network with other artists in your area and promote your work as art, see where it gets you. I’m genuinely curious.
AI has the ability to write code, but very few software engineers have lost their jobs because of it. Why? Is it because AI code, like AI art, sucks ass?
A lot of people here struggle with MH and some have overcome and found success. Maybe don’t be so quick to label others as chauvinistic for pointing out that your idea is a priori nonsense that has little to no basis in reality. The fact remains that your struggles don’t prevent you from picking up a paintbrush or a pencil or a mouse or whatever. Quadrapalegics still paint landscapes, Chuck Close is a world famous portrait artist who is face blind.
AI art is trained on the art of others, full stop. Noone says you can’t use it to create images for your own enjoyment. Maybe there is some value for creators in using AI? But the value is created for capitalists to suppress wages of creatives and force people into unemployment. Hollywood writers went on strike over this shit. People don’t fucking like it and regardless of how you feel about that, art is subjective. So best of luck, get over yourself
Noone said you can’t use it, but you really think you should be entitled to make money as an artist? You can literally get a job as an AI prompt writer/engineer. But what you want is to be recognized as an artist.
Fine, then create a bunch of AI art, frame it, and take it to a gallery or to a market. Put it in a portfolio and display it on a website. Go network with other artists in your area and promote your work as art, see where it gets you. I’m genuinely curious.
Upholding the petty bourgeois artist’s gatekeeping, requiring “real” artists to go the right school, know the right people, drink the right wine, attend the right parties and hate the right things. Classist ✔
A lot of people here struggle with MH and some have overcome and found success. Maybe don’t be so quick to label others as chauvinistic for pointing out that your idea is a priori nonsense that has little to no basis in reality. The fact remains that your struggles don’t prevent you from picking up a paintbrush or a pencil or a mouse or whatever. Quadrapalegics still paint landscapes, Chuck Close is a world famous portrait artist who is face blind.
Calling neurodivergence a mental health issue, “pick yourself up by the boot straps, Everyone can overcome their limitations because a few people did.” Ableist ✔
But the value is created for capitalists to suppress wages of creatives and force people into unemployment.
Blaming tools for the crimes of capitalism. Ludditry ✔
Come on, all three of these are a massive stretch. This is exactly what im talking about, youre just belligerent. Believe what you want, die on whatever hills you want. Enjoy life, shoot your shot playa. Life is all about playing around with stuff, if playing with AI makes you happy or a little money, or not, that’s the road you’re on. I hope its a cool ride
Edit: its irritating AF that you quoted me and then right below that said things I didn’t even say in order to check your boxes. Self crit
You shouldnt be able to make money and steal from artists who made the AI art possible in the first place though, youre taking for granted that the art is free in the first place and more of these people online should be paid
nobody stole anything. they got a copy of the data of an image. That data is publicly available and anyone looking at that image on their computer has a copy of that data.
I’m not against artists being paid. I’m saying that AI is nothing without an operator and that means AI art is made by artist who should be afforded all rights of any other artist.
Youre again taking for granted that a lot of the art is free, when it shouldnt be. The people who make that art should be making a living doing something that takes so much work and study to be able to do.
you shouldn’t be entitled to copyright on it
why? Because I made it on a computer? or because the code that the computer used was very complex? or because during some of the code uses data that is freely available on the internet?
because you didn’t write the code for the algorithm, you didn’t make any of the training data pictures, and you didn’t do anything that could be considered ‘creative’ or ‘talented’ to make it. Real fucking artists that put hours of time, effort, and creativity into their work deserve to have it protective. By plugging in “looking at a sunset from a mountain” or some shit into stable diffusion doesn’t make you entitled to the shit it puts out. terrible take.
All of these AI tools are based on models trained on illegaly obtained samples from non-consenting artists. This is the key issue behind copyright. Its both the issue of failing to protect artists original copyright while granting copyright to art created through these tools.
In a sane and honest economic system you’d hire a lot of these artists to create art specificaly for this, seek their consent and pay them according to the number of samples they have on the model, or respect their choice if they don’t want their art sampled period. These are just naive suggestions I’m sure there are better proposals too.
If you took all the steps above people would be a lot more open and positive about it. At the end of the day these tools are impossible to stop but it is the openly brazen lack of morality and justice of capitalism here that makes it obvious for people.
Corporations cried about piracy since the rise of fucking VHS tape recorders 30 or 40 years ago. They lied and manipulated the narrative of digital piracy in the early 2000s, but now it is 2023, the internet is old now so it is suddenly not piracy when you scrape millions of pieces of art from the web.
I think a complete no copyright stance would be the most realistic. If we assume you’ll never be able to completely make sure someone didn’t plagiarize or “reference” some prior art then at least don’t make it worse by endorsing a tool built on entirely the premise of referencing and plagiarizing previous art.
And this is also seperate as to whether these tools are good or bad.
illegaly obtained samples
If you post things on the internet they aren’t private. Is my eyeball illegally obtaining samples when I scroll instagram? It surely has an influence on my creations as much as it would on an AI.
AI image generation is a tool. Yes it makes image generation super easy and accessible to people without technical skills but so did Photoshop so did the camera so did fucking crayons. AI assisted art is art just as any other digital art is art. A person making an image with the help of AI is an artist and deserves the rights to their product the same as anyone else.
How are you supposed to sell your artwork if you don’t post a picture of it online? This is a terrible argument. Looking at something is not the same as literally scraping it’s image data. They are two fundamentally different material processes.
Even if you think that they should not have copyright or.privatized protections that doesn’t mean that LIM-assisted drawings should. The only consistent legal position is neither or both, and if it is both then LIM-assisted art is fundamentally based in piracy.
Looking at something is not the same as literally scraping it’s image data.
so? having a hexadecimal pallet isn’t the same as mixing different colors of paint? Its the person and how the tool is used that makes the art. Is a painting not art because the paint was made with exploited labor? Having the AI smash a bunch of images though a sieve is just an upgrade on the polygon tool. (they used to not have triangles and now they have stars and arrows)
neither or both.
yeah that’s fine.
You are asking a fundamentally different question than I am. I am not asking ‘Is it art?’, I am asking ‘Is it copyrightable?’.
It could be art, but that doesn’t mean it’s copyrightable. You are all over the map with you analysis, drawing comparisons and JAQing off out of smoke and spite. It’s not about the exploitation, it is about the process of creation. The process for making hexadecimal colors and mixing paint colors are likely both patented processes within their fields, if sold as a product (and to be sure, this is not only likely it is certain). That said, the end product of said creation (painted wall) could or could not be copy written. That said, if you happen to create Feldspar BlueTM through a completely different process then it is not the same product or patent. This is exact same process as the polygon tool.
This is where the differences appear. An LIM assisted image cannot exist without previously existing artistic material, copywritten or not. And despite this, the only part of the ‘patented’ process that is allowed is the LIM process itself, not the creation of the original artwork, even though it is ‘essential’ to the process, in a way that just painting it from memory is not (because of possibilities of convergent design).
This is a fundamental disconnect in the logic here. It is more like being able to directly plagiarize someone’s data without attribution, even if you come to a different conclusion than them. I would even be more fine with this process if the scrapings that the LIM uses have to attributed to the original creators in the data. As it is now, the process as it exists constitutes copyright piracy.
I am not asking ‘Is it art?’, I am asking ‘Is it copyrightable?’.
fair enough.
The thing that makes an idea copyrightable is whether it is a original idea put to use. How the idea came to be “in use” is not a question that copyright asks. Originality is only ever a combination of old ideas in a new way. All ideas are derivative. No idea is created in a vacuum.
It is more like being able to directly plagiarize someone’s data without attribution, even if you come to a different conclusion than them.
When does using one person’s data to create your own data become plagiarism? If one were to open a essay with the same first 3 words as another writer on the same subject but come to a completely contrary conclusion did they plagiarize them? Most AI images sample millions of images most of which are not copywrite. Nobody is “directly plagiarize someone’s data,” it is being referenced.
Even then this legal case was about an image generated by AI being republished (emphasis on re) by someone who didn’t generate it. There is only one image involved in the case. The ruling is simply saying you cant steal images even if they are made by an AI. Either all original images that are put to use are copyrightable or none of them are.
If the copyright infringer was the AI generator this would be a different debate.
Using someone else’s collected data in academia without attribution is 100% plagiarism. Using 1000 peoples combined data is still 100% plagiarism, if it is left uncited in academia. That is why it is bullshit. Only in art are you allowed to not cite your sources and this is an extremely abusive method of doing that.
I agree that no art IS made in a vacuum but all art except LIM art COULD be made in a vacuum. That is the fundamental processual difference.
The copyright infringer is the LIM generator (it is not AI stop falling for marketing bullshit), but the courts continue to refuse to acknowledge that, even if they do not give copyright to the LIM piece.
Correct, it is either all or none, and if it is all, then the LIM generator is in copyright infringement.
All of these AI tools are based on models trained on illegaly obtained samples from non-consenting artists.
I have an issue with that argument. Human artists train on “illegally obtained samples from non-consenting artists” all the time. Did your favorite artist ask Toriyama for consent before copying his style? When an artist inspire their style on old Disney movies, are they doing something wrong? Machine learning is not different from human learning, it’s just faster.
Machine learning is not different from human learning, it’s just faster.
All those western educated libs China has running around inside its pipes need to get their asses purged, this shit is embarrassing
Hopefully this is just Chinese liberals exerting what little power they have left and not a bellwether for some liberal resurgence on the mainland
This is a direct consequence of the post-mao reform period.
These liberal ideas are widespread throughout China, not part of some vocal minority. Liberal economics are taught in schools. The ruling class, as you mentioned, is taught in the western tradition. Regardless of the direction of the country or the intention of the CPC, people’s day to day experience with the means of production is capitalistic, and they want to be successful in this domain. The media in China has largely taken a pro-US stance since the 90s and until very recently, most people thought it was a utopia (the majority still do), so people want to emulate that model.
This is not something a purge can fix. It’s a response to the development of the means of production.
The ruling class, as you mentioned, is taught in the western tradition.
What is this even based on? Taking the Politburo as a sample of the ruling class, only 2 of 24 people have had university education in the West. A total of 3 if you count university in HK as “western”, and only 4 if you count the one other guy who got a degree in Russia.
If you’re basing “the Western tradition” on the idea that universities in China are teaching along those lines then we’re gonna need one big-ass “citations needed”.
Most of Marxism is taught as history and sociology.
In fairness, a lot of Marxism is history and sociology. There are lots of very prestigious Chinese universities where you can get a degree in economics with a specialization in Marxist economics.
Chinese universities have been overrun by Western (neoclassical) economics for the past couple decades.
In China, neoclassical economics are known as Western economics (西方经济学), and Marxian economics are known as political economy (政治经济学).
Political economists aka Marxian economists have long been banished to humanities and social science departments.
Most prominent Chinese economists who are close to the center of power today, like Justin Lin Yifu (Chicago school), Zhang Weiying (Austrian school, PhD Oxford), Yi Gang (just sacked as head of PBoC) etc. are all Western educated or specializes in Western neoclassical economics even when they did their PhD in China (Li Yining, for example, who was the PhD advisor of Li Keqiang. Both of them just died this year.).
The legendary Marxian economists of the previous era like Xue Muqiao and Sun Yefang no longer exist as important players in today’s China economics department in the academia, nor are they giving advise to the Central Committee.
