After. In 1923, he fled Berlin to the United States, and was a member of a liberal political party. He was thoroughly anti-soviet at the time, but eventually his views changed and balanced out. In 1949, he wrote Why Socialism? as he became increasingly convinced of the logical necessity for the transition to Socialism, and a world government. He also changed his tune on Lenin and the Soviets:
“I honor Lenin as a man who completely sacrificed himself and devoted all his energy to the realization of social justice. I do not consider his methods practical, but one thing is certain: men of his type are the guardians and restorers of the conscience of humanity.”
Part of what changed his views were becoming friends with prominent American Communists such as the legendary Paul Robeson. Over time, he took increasingly gentle and in some cases supportive stances towards the Soviet system, and was anti-War, including the nuclear Arms Race that the US relentlessly pushed forward.
Einstein, however, had serious internal chauvanism. He was a supporter of Zionism (which, while faded over time, never truly faded), and had this to say about the Chinese:
“Chinese don’t sit on benches while eating but squat like Europeans do when they relieve themselves out in the leafy woods. All this occurs quietly and demurely. Even the children are spiritless and look obtuse… It would be a pity if these Chinese supplant all other races. For the likes of us the mere thought is unspeakably dreary.”
Overall, I believe he harbored extremely reactionary views, such as support of Zionism (which, while eventually fading, persisted), the shown racism towards Chinese people, and more. While the logical necessity of Socialism is elucidated quite clearly in Why Socialism? it appears he harbored western-supremacist views.
This stands in stark contrast to contemporary intellectuals like Frantz Fanon, who lived in Algeria and the USSR. I don’t think Einstein should be lionized, however I do think his essay Why Socialism? serves as a good starting point for those who think Socialism to be utter nonsense, and serve as a springboard for actual, genuine works of theory.
I deleted my comment because this is a masterful response. I want to remain on record, though, that you’re replying to an idiot who is trying to cause problems. You’re better than me for not pointing that out lol.
Sometimes*, it’s still worth replying to bad faith ‘debate’, not to discuss or even necessarily refute them, but to address their audience, including lurkers.
That said, it’s also good to have FAQs and links so you don’t waste 30 minutes of your labor replying to a downvoted sunken bad faith one-liner.
I’ve had many people at this point DM or reply to me saying they appreciate my input and learned something new, and this helps me keep my faith up. There are also those who consider me a “troll” which is silly, and others who are eternally anti-Marxist-Leninist no matter what, but those aren’t the people I really try to reach, it’s the more reasonable people that are more receptive and act in better faith. Funnily enough, I have developed a bit of an “anti-fan club.”
In cases like this, it’s pretty much a lay-up for me to put a bit of effort in, as you can see from the response my comments are getting on this post. In other cases, I ignore because I can tell the other person’s mind is made up and there’s no chance of onlookers anyways.
Thanks! Einstein is… complicated. The best way to view him is as someone who logically came to believe in the necessity of Socialism, without seriously confronting his liberalism or the pro-Western Chavuanism he had from his early days. I think Why Socialism? is very useful as it contains none of that chauvanism while making a clear case to liberals who idolize him why they may be wrong about Socialism.
That’s a very detailed explanation, as a scientist as much as I knew about him I didn’t know that much.
Although I do wonder why it would matter.
I mean by that, although a great scientist, politics is not is area of expertise. So I wouldn’t put that much importance in his opinions.
Not that you can’t be curious, but valuing it for his fame is a known bias we should avoid.
It’s especially true for intelligence. We tend to put it on a pedestal like it’s what made Einstein, or anyone, be successful. When it’s only a part.
I’d say intelligence is like a good soil, there is still so much labor to make it into food. Einstein did the work in physics but on any other matter your still just eating dirt.
Einstein directly asks and answers your question in the very first lines of Why Socialism?
Is it advisable for one who is not an expert on economic and social issues to express views on the subject of socialism? I believe for a number of reasons that it is.
He then goes on to make his case, then builds up why he believes Socialism is necessary. I agree that intelligence is multi-faceted and doesn’t necessarily imply “spill-over,” but that’s not what’s going on here.
Likewise, there are many things I clearly disagree with Einstein on politically and socially, such as his view of Chinese people and support for Zionism. I also am more sympathetic to the Soviet Union than he was. However, his position as an intellectual that came to understand the necessity of Socialism without dedicating himself to its study serves to highlight for those who think Socialism outlandish that it isn’t unreasonable at all, and the case he makes is largely on the nose.
Hobo Johnson has a “song” that’s basically just him reading part of the dissertation, it’s called exactly what you would expect (Why Socialism by Albert Einstein - Hobo Johnson), and makes it a bit easier to digest than reading it for the first time
As a general rule I think it’s best to take ideas on their own internal merit without attaching yourself too strongly to particular figures. People are fickle but a well founded idea can transcend its author.
That doesn’t mean you should esteem someone for having one good thought or withhold your contempt of their general character though.
This interview with Noam Chomsky explains why we should listen to intellectuals when they speak of matters that are not necessarily in their field of expertise:
Some years ago, for example, I did some work in mathematical linguistics and automata theory, and occasionally gave invited lectures at mathematics or engineering colloquia. No one would have dreamed of challenging my credentials to speak on these topics – which were zero, as everyone knew; that would have been laughable. The participants were concerned with what I had to say, not my right to say it. But when I speak, say, about international affairs, I’m constantly challenged to present the credentials that authorize me to enter this august arena, in the United States, at least – elsewhere not.
Anyone can give their opinions on football teams, movies, recipes for cooking. But, for some reason you have to be an expert to talk about economics or politics. The reason- those discussions challenge the accepted power structures of authority. So, those discussions are guarded, and any challenge dismissed.
Chomsky is right here, but it’s also worth noting that even “experts” can be either minimized or magnified depending on their usefulness to the Capitalist system. Chomsky himself has a fair amount of skeletons in his closet.
I think Gabriel Rockhill would consider Chomsky as part of the compatible left. It’s essential to separate the ideas from the person. I tend not to expect too much from libertarian socialists like Chomsky, and they rarely disappoint me. He can be a resource for early radicalization and dissident thought though.
I agree, I just think that with figures you describe as the “compatible left,” they need to be taken with consideration as to their broader views and roles. Disclaimers are handy, such as Paul Cockshott, whose work on economic planning under Socialism is valuable, yet TERF extremism and transphobia is actively harmful.
Nobody is perfect, of course, but some people’s works need to be examined from a critical lense to separate the good from the bad more than others.
It’s a valid point. But if you want to juge the ideas of anyone I think you also need to educate yourself to a degree.
I do think discussion/debate are a good way to learn though. Although a good debate must be anchored in reality, established knowledge and studies…
In the end I think it comes to what are you gonna trust or challenge. In learning I don’t think you can only rely on one, you need a healthy balance.
(I’d say the more you know the easier it is to challenge more often. A new student might trust his teacher often while researchers might always challenge their peers.)
And I don’t think that apply only to economics or politics, although entertainments might be taken less seriously.
Alternatively I believe in politics there is also a part that’s subjective, depending on your values and culture.
I’m assuming they mean Einstein living in America. I won’t lionize Einstein, he had reactionary social views, but he came to Socialism after fleeing Germany, not before.
Did he form these views before or after he lived out his life in the country that is the anthesis of socialism? 🤔
After. In 1923, he fled Berlin to the United States, and was a member of a liberal political party. He was thoroughly anti-soviet at the time, but eventually his views changed and balanced out. In 1949, he wrote Why Socialism? as he became increasingly convinced of the logical necessity for the transition to Socialism, and a world government. He also changed his tune on Lenin and the Soviets:
Part of what changed his views were becoming friends with prominent American Communists such as the legendary Paul Robeson. Over time, he took increasingly gentle and in some cases supportive stances towards the Soviet system, and was anti-War, including the nuclear Arms Race that the US relentlessly pushed forward.
Einstein, however, had serious internal chauvanism. He was a supporter of Zionism (which, while faded over time, never truly faded), and had this to say about the Chinese:
Overall, I believe he harbored extremely reactionary views, such as support of Zionism (which, while eventually fading, persisted), the shown racism towards Chinese people, and more. While the logical necessity of Socialism is elucidated quite clearly in Why Socialism? it appears he harbored western-supremacist views.
This stands in stark contrast to contemporary intellectuals like Frantz Fanon, who lived in Algeria and the USSR. I don’t think Einstein should be lionized, however I do think his essay Why Socialism? serves as a good starting point for those who think Socialism to be utter nonsense, and serve as a springboard for actual, genuine works of theory.
I deleted my comment because this is a masterful response. I want to remain on record, though, that you’re replying to an idiot who is trying to cause problems. You’re better than me for not pointing that out lol.
(also pinging @Cowbee@lemmy.ml)
Sometimes*, it’s still worth replying to bad faith ‘debate’, not to discuss or even necessarily refute them, but to address their audience, including lurkers.
That said, it’s also good to have FAQs and links so you don’t waste 30 minutes of your labor replying to a downvoted sunken bad faith one-liner.
No thats a great mindset. I just have no faith in humanity.
I’ve had many people at this point DM or reply to me saying they appreciate my input and learned something new, and this helps me keep my faith up. There are also those who consider me a “troll” which is silly, and others who are eternally anti-Marxist-Leninist no matter what, but those aren’t the people I really try to reach, it’s the more reasonable people that are more receptive and act in better faith. Funnily enough, I have developed a bit of an “anti-fan club.”
In cases like this, it’s pretty much a lay-up for me to put a bit of effort in, as you can see from the response my comments are getting on this post. In other cases, I ignore because I can tell the other person’s mind is made up and there’s no chance of onlookers anyways.
Ultimately, it’s a balance.
Oh I’m aware, haha. I just try to take the road less traveled in case any onlookers might have their views changed by seeing a genuine response.
Your comment taught me a lot that I didn’t previously know so thank you!
No problem! Glad you enjoyed!
Incredible write up comrade. I was not aware of Einstein’s views on the Chinese and on Zionism.
Thanks! Einstein is… complicated. The best way to view him is as someone who logically came to believe in the necessity of Socialism, without seriously confronting his liberalism or the pro-Western Chavuanism he had from his early days. I think Why Socialism? is very useful as it contains none of that chauvanism while making a clear case to liberals who idolize him why they may be wrong about Socialism.
That’s a very detailed explanation, as a scientist as much as I knew about him I didn’t know that much.
Although I do wonder why it would matter.
I mean by that, although a great scientist, politics is not is area of expertise. So I wouldn’t put that much importance in his opinions.
Not that you can’t be curious, but valuing it for his fame is a known bias we should avoid.
It’s especially true for intelligence. We tend to put it on a pedestal like it’s what made Einstein, or anyone, be successful. When it’s only a part.
I’d say intelligence is like a good soil, there is still so much labor to make it into food. Einstein did the work in physics but on any other matter your still just eating dirt.
Einstein directly asks and answers your question in the very first lines of Why Socialism?
He then goes on to make his case, then builds up why he believes Socialism is necessary. I agree that intelligence is multi-faceted and doesn’t necessarily imply “spill-over,” but that’s not what’s going on here.
Likewise, there are many things I clearly disagree with Einstein on politically and socially, such as his view of Chinese people and support for Zionism. I also am more sympathetic to the Soviet Union than he was. However, his position as an intellectual that came to understand the necessity of Socialism without dedicating himself to its study serves to highlight for those who think Socialism outlandish that it isn’t unreasonable at all, and the case he makes is largely on the nose.
I recommend reading it yourself.
Interesting, well I do have a lot to read on the subject but i’ll add it to my list, I might be pleasantly surprised.
Hobo Johnson has a “song” that’s basically just him reading part of the dissertation, it’s called exactly what you would expect (Why Socialism by Albert Einstein - Hobo Johnson), and makes it a bit easier to digest than reading it for the first time
As a general rule I think it’s best to take ideas on their own internal merit without attaching yourself too strongly to particular figures. People are fickle but a well founded idea can transcend its author.
That doesn’t mean you should esteem someone for having one good thought or withhold your contempt of their general character though.
This interview with Noam Chomsky explains why we should listen to intellectuals when they speak of matters that are not necessarily in their field of expertise:
Anyone can give their opinions on football teams, movies, recipes for cooking. But, for some reason you have to be an expert to talk about economics or politics. The reason- those discussions challenge the accepted power structures of authority. So, those discussions are guarded, and any challenge dismissed.
Chomsky is right here, but it’s also worth noting that even “experts” can be either minimized or magnified depending on their usefulness to the Capitalist system. Chomsky himself has a fair amount of skeletons in his closet.
I think Gabriel Rockhill would consider Chomsky as part of the compatible left. It’s essential to separate the ideas from the person. I tend not to expect too much from libertarian socialists like Chomsky, and they rarely disappoint me. He can be a resource for early radicalization and dissident thought though.
I agree, I just think that with figures you describe as the “compatible left,” they need to be taken with consideration as to their broader views and roles. Disclaimers are handy, such as Paul Cockshott, whose work on economic planning under Socialism is valuable, yet TERF extremism and transphobia is actively harmful.
Nobody is perfect, of course, but some people’s works need to be examined from a critical lense to separate the good from the bad more than others.
It’s a valid point. But if you want to juge the ideas of anyone I think you also need to educate yourself to a degree.
I do think discussion/debate are a good way to learn though. Although a good debate must be anchored in reality, established knowledge and studies…
In the end I think it comes to what are you gonna trust or challenge. In learning I don’t think you can only rely on one, you need a healthy balance.
(I’d say the more you know the easier it is to challenge more often. A new student might trust his teacher often while researchers might always challenge their peers.)
And I don’t think that apply only to economics or politics, although entertainments might be taken less seriously.
Alternatively I believe in politics there is also a part that’s subjective, depending on your values and culture.
Dude fled Nazi Germany, wdym?
I’m assuming they mean Einstein living in America. I won’t lionize Einstein, he had reactionary social views, but he came to Socialism after fleeing Germany, not before.
deleted by creator