I respect but also feel sorry for people who are sexually attracted to children, but manage to control themselves. They have to work extra hard constantly just to not be monsters, while the rest of us never even have to worry about that.
Well this is certainly a thing that someone typed once. I’d counter that it’s not simply that people are innocently attracted to children and therefore deserve sympathy. I’d say there’s more involved in that attraction. You can’t reasonably engage in any romantic or sexual abuse encounter with a child without there being a totally lopsided power dynamic and a high degree of exploitation. I’d argue that for all such people this is what draws them to it. Within that context it’s not some innocent ‘miswiring’ of the brain but instead an individual that is completely unhealthy and mentally unwell that is entertaining the idea of grooming some child. That’s the part they are after.
I know there’s a movement to try and see pedophiles as anything but what they are and you can sit and have thought experiments about ‘the ones that act vs those that don’t’ but at the end of the day you are left with a deeply unwell individual that desperately needs inpatient psychiatric treatment, psychiatric medication, extensive counseling, and total separation from any children.
Exactly - they need treatment and help so they don’t act on it - but with the demonizing that’s happening I’d guess that most of them are too scared to open up and try to fight their urge on their own.
I’d guess that pretty much no-one wants to normalise pedophilia in a way that makes acting that attraction out normal but making it more normal to talk about if and seek help similar to how depressions aren’t nearly as stigmatized as 50 years ago
Well, you’d be wrong. Pedophilia is well studied. It’s attraction to children, and there’s a huge amount of variation in how that is expressed and how the psychology around it develops through a person’s life. Baselessly claiming that all people with pedophilia are just rapists who want easy prey is unhelpful nonsense.
After all, the word stems from the suffix “philia” which means tendency or affinity towards, as opposed to “phobia” which means aversion or separation from. Philia is used for a lot of words as a suffix for literally meaning affinity towards, like in the word “hydrophilic” or affinity towards (bearing) water, but it can also denote interest or attraction as in “audiophile” (interested in audio), “cynophile” (interested in or lover of canines/dogs), or “gynophile” (interested or loving of women).
Here’s the definition and further background about “pedophile”.
That is absolutely a worthwhile argument. I definitely agree with you about treatment, medication, and counseling. Total separation from children is probably for the best, as well. If these people can be helped, they should be - not just for their own benefit, but for the improvement of society as a whole.
I respect people who […] manage to control themselves
That’s such a weird thing to say though.
Imagine you are in love with someone but they are not interested. Do you take pride in the fact you didn’t rape/groom them because you “managed to control yourself”?
We’re not animals. Controlling your sexual desires should be trivial for any decent human being.
Maybe it should be, but is it actually trivial? Addiction in general is a real thing, isn’t it? For someone with say an eating disorder, maintaining a healthy diet isn’t trivial at all. Paraphilias are different morally where they involve harming others and not just yourself and so it’s more important to not act on them, but I’m not sure that means it’s easier for a person with a paraphilia than it is for other sorts of people struggling with controlling their behavior.
IMO what it comes down to isn’t whether these people deserve sympathy though, the more important consideration is preventing abuse. To me what the OP image shows is that the “just kill 'em all” attitude is unhelpful bullshit leading to pedophiles and abusers hiding in plain sight. What would be better is a conditionally supportive community that knows what they are and keeps tabs on them well enough to make sure they stay away from kids.
Feeling sexually attracted is not the same as addiction. If it starts to feel like withdrawal from addiction you have something else going on as well (for example an actual sex addiction). Additionally, pedophiles aren’t necessarily exclusively attracted to children.
I do think they should have access to mental health care and they obviously shouldn’t be incarcerated or threatened with death. But having respect for them for not abusing children is taking it way too far.
I also don’t respect serial killers for every day they don’t murder someone, I don’t respect racists for every person they pass without punching them, etc.
I get what you are saying but I think it’s probably easier in general for people in normal relationships because even if they get rejected, they have an opportunity to form a relationship with someone else. Someone attracted to minors never gets that chance. They aren’t allowed (for good reason) to even try.
Obviously pedophilia isnt a great thing and pedophiles who abuse children should be punished severely, but I don’t think it’s a choice to be born attracted to minors. So it’s unfortunate for them. Definitely not an easy topic.
You are jumping to a lot of wild conclusions and making some bold assumptions in your argument. I don’t really wanna take a stance on this one way or the other as I have no idea what is the mindset of these people, but just reading thru this, your comment sticks out as you have all the answers and everything is either black or white. I dislike your conjecturing attitude.
Replace “pedophile” with “rapist” in your arguments and ask yourself whether what you’re saying is convincing.
Welp, I’d much rather live in a world where people that have thoughts of rape are encouraged to go to therapy and work through it than one where they all just keep themselves in check.
I’m not saying pedophiles don’t have agency in the matter or something. I’m saying we should try to cure them before they hurt people.
Thoughts aren’t crimes, actions are. Everyone has intrusive thoughts at some point or another. If you are going to criminalize thoughts alone, you might as well condemn all of humanity.
I respect but also feel sorry for people who are sexually attracted to children, but manage to control themselves. They have to work extra hard constantly just to not be monsters, while the rest of us never even have to worry about that.
Well this is certainly a thing that someone typed once. I’d counter that it’s not simply that people are innocently attracted to children and therefore deserve sympathy. I’d say there’s more involved in that attraction. You can’t reasonably engage in any romantic or sexual abuse encounter with a child without there being a totally lopsided power dynamic and a high degree of exploitation. I’d argue that for all such people this is what draws them to it. Within that context it’s not some innocent ‘miswiring’ of the brain but instead an individual that is completely unhealthy and mentally unwell that is entertaining the idea of grooming some child. That’s the part they are after.
I know there’s a movement to try and see pedophiles as anything but what they are and you can sit and have thought experiments about ‘the ones that act vs those that don’t’ but at the end of the day you are left with a deeply unwell individual that desperately needs inpatient psychiatric treatment, psychiatric medication, extensive counseling, and total separation from any children.
Exactly - they need treatment and help so they don’t act on it - but with the demonizing that’s happening I’d guess that most of them are too scared to open up and try to fight their urge on their own.
I’d guess that pretty much no-one wants to normalise pedophilia in a way that makes acting that attraction out normal but making it more normal to talk about if and seek help similar to how depressions aren’t nearly as stigmatized as 50 years ago
Well, you’d be wrong. Pedophilia is well studied. It’s attraction to children, and there’s a huge amount of variation in how that is expressed and how the psychology around it develops through a person’s life. Baselessly claiming that all people with pedophilia are just rapists who want easy prey is unhelpful nonsense.
After all, the word stems from the suffix “philia” which means tendency or affinity towards, as opposed to “phobia” which means aversion or separation from. Philia is used for a lot of words as a suffix for literally meaning affinity towards, like in the word “hydrophilic” or affinity towards (bearing) water, but it can also denote interest or attraction as in “audiophile” (interested in audio), “cynophile” (interested in or lover of canines/dogs), or “gynophile” (interested or loving of women).
Here’s the definition and further background about “pedophile”.
That is absolutely a worthwhile argument. I definitely agree with you about treatment, medication, and counseling. Total separation from children is probably for the best, as well. If these people can be helped, they should be - not just for their own benefit, but for the improvement of society as a whole.
Yes, they need treatment – and threatening them with torture and death will discourage them from seeking treatment.
That’s such a weird thing to say though.
Imagine you are in love with someone but they are not interested. Do you take pride in the fact you didn’t rape/groom them because you “managed to control yourself”?
We’re not animals. Controlling your sexual desires should be trivial for any decent human being.
Maybe it should be, but is it actually trivial? Addiction in general is a real thing, isn’t it? For someone with say an eating disorder, maintaining a healthy diet isn’t trivial at all. Paraphilias are different morally where they involve harming others and not just yourself and so it’s more important to not act on them, but I’m not sure that means it’s easier for a person with a paraphilia than it is for other sorts of people struggling with controlling their behavior.
IMO what it comes down to isn’t whether these people deserve sympathy though, the more important consideration is preventing abuse. To me what the OP image shows is that the “just kill 'em all” attitude is unhelpful bullshit leading to pedophiles and abusers hiding in plain sight. What would be better is a conditionally supportive community that knows what they are and keeps tabs on them well enough to make sure they stay away from kids.
Feeling sexually attracted is not the same as addiction. If it starts to feel like withdrawal from addiction you have something else going on as well (for example an actual sex addiction). Additionally, pedophiles aren’t necessarily exclusively attracted to children.
I do think they should have access to mental health care and they obviously shouldn’t be incarcerated or threatened with death. But having respect for them for not abusing children is taking it way too far.
I also don’t respect serial killers for every day they don’t murder someone, I don’t respect racists for every person they pass without punching them, etc.
Thank you. Your response is better than mine would have been. I especially like what you have to say about the “‘just kill ‘em all’ attitude “.
I get what you are saying but I think it’s probably easier in general for people in normal relationships because even if they get rejected, they have an opportunity to form a relationship with someone else. Someone attracted to minors never gets that chance. They aren’t allowed (for good reason) to even try.
Obviously pedophilia isnt a great thing and pedophiles who abuse children should be punished severely, but I don’t think it’s a choice to be born attracted to minors. So it’s unfortunate for them. Definitely not an easy topic.
Welp, it’s clear these aren’t mentally well people so something that’s just expected from normal people can be an achievement for them.
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That doesn’t mean that they don’t deserve help. Suppression isn’t a solution. It’s a way for people to pretend its all ok.
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You are jumping to a lot of wild conclusions and making some bold assumptions in your argument. I don’t really wanna take a stance on this one way or the other as I have no idea what is the mindset of these people, but just reading thru this, your comment sticks out as you have all the answers and everything is either black or white. I dislike your conjecturing attitude.
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Welp, I’d much rather live in a world where people that have thoughts of rape are encouraged to go to therapy and work through it than one where they all just keep themselves in check.
I’m not saying pedophiles don’t have agency in the matter or something. I’m saying we should try to cure them before they hurt people.
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I wish you the best in overcoming the hurt and anger in your life that is showing here.
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Could you explain how they’re not ill?
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I’m not saying what they do should be excused. I’m just saying they very well should be respected for keeping themselves in check.
You should respect me then for keeping myself from commiting a coup and establishing a communist regime.
Sure, as long as you agree you should be put in an asylum.
I didn’t read that comment as excusing a crime. I read it as stating that self control, which is normal for us, is an achievement for pedophiles.
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Thoughts aren’t crimes, actions are. Everyone has intrusive thoughts at some point or another. If you are going to criminalize thoughts alone, you might as well condemn all of humanity.
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I am sure you said this to gay people, too.
what mental gymnastics did you perform to jump to that conclusion?
I have a sneaking feeling that I’ll need some popcorn when looking at replies to this comment. I’ll be back later
Yeah, I almost didn’t post it. We’ll see!
No, I’m glad you posted it. It’s a valid point and I agree with you. Living in constant fear, disgust and denial must be exhausting and terrifying.
I’ll be keeping a close eye on the comments so this remains a civil discussion.
okay but ted nugent doesnt control himself
Your point is valid, but my assumption when reading this comment is that Nugent is not someone that falls into op’s sphere of empathy.
Completely agree that Ted definitely does not appear to have exercised any restraint on his urges.
Not defending or attacking op’s comment, just trying to read it correctly.
You have read it correctly. I appreciate it.
I’m not talking about him, then, am I?
And even when they do control themselves consistently without fail, most people would still look down on them if they knew…