If you read the general internet it’s all mobbed up guys stealing cars from law-abiding single mothers for no reason at all but then again if I believed the general public about parking violation enforcement here in germany I’d come to the conclusion they’re the new jews.
So how bad is that whole privatized towing / enforcement thing, really? Is there an actual problem beyond “it’s a private company” or is it mostly carbrain tears?
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It’s as bad as you’ve heard. They’re pretty much cops without badges (some even carry guns) in how they target people who may or may not be able to afford the hundreds of dollars it would cost in order to get your car back from them. And that’s if you can figure out a way to get to their base of operations if your only car was towed.
Yeah, usually hundreds of dollars a day cash only and the cops just let them hold your vehicle (Even if it was towed after an accident).
Your choices are lawyer up or pay and both are really expensive. I think it was about $400 for one day after I got t-boned and the cops called in a predatory lot.
I’ve also seen them intentionally trash cars. Like towing a RWD on the back tires with the parking brake engaged.
I don’t mean this in an antagonizing way but the issue at it’s core described here seems to be parking enforcement, aye? You wouldn’t think of it any better if it was done by some department for no profit or whatever?
If it was done for no profit, but people’s cars were still getting towed to out of the way places, it would still be a problem. Also if there was no profit motive than I don’t think the predatory tow industry would exist.
Destroying public transportation, forcing workers who don’t have the luxury of burning 2 hours looking for a spot to use cars and find street parking, and empowering private entities to profit off parking regulations is bad, actually
They aren’t heroes crusading against carbrains, they’re glorified mall cops who would sell their own mother for an extra cent. Likewise, the city isn’t interested in curbing parking violations as doing so would deprive them of their revenue.
I know a barber who has to park illegally 9 times out of 10 because “sorry I’m late by an hour, I was looking for a spot” would cost them their job. It doesn’t matter if you fine them a billion dollars, they aren’t doing it for shits and giggles, they still have to come to work every day. The only solution is public transit.
And besides, I’d wager a majority of tows in American cities are not on behalf of the municipal government but of private lots for those who can’t afford to pay their extortion rates. They’re like landlords but for your car.
Parking enforcement in the USA isn’t about addressing problems (which it really can’t anyway, most poor drivers just learn the patrol patterns, and for the rich that’s just the price you pay to park there), it’s a business like any other. See the latest “barnacle” enforcement device NYC is using (they rent the bazinga gadget for thousands per month from a private company).
Haven’t seen anyone else mention that if you can’t pay within a certain time period, in many places the tow company can just sell your car and keep the profits. They don’t have to pay you for the car they sold.
They’re fucking evil, and I’m enraged that gunmen choose to shoot up schools when tow companies are right there
It very much depends on the city, and even the area of the city. The tow companies in my town are a menace and in a just world the owners would be executed, in a normal world where state and federal law actually apply equally they would’ve been arrested a long long time ago for stealing fucking cars.
They’ve been caught several times towing legally parked cars. They’ve towed from lots they’re not authorized to tow from. They’ve been caught colluding with apartment complexes mark parking sections badly so people will be towable. At least once they got in trouble for towing a car with the owner inside.
One time my friend went to a cafe, parked in the lot that clearly said “parking for cafe and x other businesses only,” and did homework for about an hour. Goes outside, car’s gone. Finds out which company towed her car, tells them they towed a legally parked car, they go “Nuh uh.” Contacts them again, they sent her a security camera video of some random woman walking on the sidewalk next to the cafe and say “This is you leaving! Money now.” The only way she managed to get her car back without paying was by getting her cop uncle to go with her to the tow yard and threaten them.
They are the scum of the earth, and it’s one of the few businesses where the lowest level workers are just as soulless and slimey as the owners. They’re sharks who prey mostly on people who can afford to have their car towed the least - You never see them towing a fancy sports car. I have no sympathy for tow company workers, I sincerely hope you get shot by a pissed off victim.
Note, this only applies to roam towing companies. There is also one tow company and owner-operators who do on-demand tows and jobs for things like AAA, those guys are quite nice and none of this applies to them. Sometimes a car needs to be towed somewhere.
At the very least tow company owners should be held liable to normal laws. “Accidentally” towing the wrong car is called theft and it’s a felony that gets a normal person put in prison.
they actually do fucking suck. All they do is drive around and ruin working people’s day for their own pay-out, holding their cars hostage and charging arbitrary fines that cannot be contested. They hold your shit ransom. It’s detestable.
Yep, it’s not like wealthy people have to deal with this, they have the money to get a place with a garage. This is another one of those things where it costs money to be poor.
Would you feel differently about this if it was like a municipal thing? I.e. it’s either run as a non profit or it’s just whatever department is in charge of traffic violations that orders them to do whatever?
i’ve heard of tow truck companies and places with restricted parking (like apartment complexes) in texas doing the “we took it upon ourselves to tow your car because we thought it was parked incorrectly. you owe us $1500 for the tow and storage please and thank you” stories. that exact thing happened to a friend in california who didn’t drive every day, so they didn’t know their car had been towed from the apt complex, racking up storage fees, for several days.
there’s also an issue of police responding to auto accidents and calling in tows for the damaged vehicles. typically, the tower uses special rates for police-initiated-tows that cost the drivers exorbitant rates. most of the tow truck drivers i’ve interacted with are simply workers, putting in long hours at a dangerous job, helping stressed people deal with a major financial burden. there are surely owner-operated tows out there looking eagerly for a juicy opportunity to ruin someone’s day. i think some states have laws that prohibit towers from spontaneously offering their services to discourage “that’s a nice car you got there. would be a shame if something happened and you needed a tow” situations, and the tow request must be initiated by the driver.
think that’s everything i know about the tow truck industry
I had both my car and my wife’s car towed in a single night from a private apt complex parking lot because I was too lazy to put my new registration stickers on. Both cars were up to date, just behind on the sticker application. I thankfully woke up and chased them down and was able to pay a “cheaper” unhook fee, aka a bribe for them not to drag our cars to a lot an hour away.
After that my wife’s car needed some transmission lines replaced.
They only come on the last day of the month past midnight too, so they’re not really doing anything for illegal parking.
I once saw a single mom with 3 kids return to the empty spot where her van was parked at like 11 in the night and had to go down and give her the tow company info. Its just a racket in most places. It makes sense in cities to clear out illegal parking that is legit dangerous, ie fire lanes, fire hydrants, limited street parking, etc. But when they’re contracted with a private property, its almost always corrupt.
I read this story of a tow company near DC that is entirely in bed with the local government. They illegally tow legally parked cars all the time, fuck up cars, extort people, etc and never get more than a slap on the wrist. Just another mechanism where having money makes you exempt from laws.
At the university nearest to where i live has been sicing their parking enforcement on homeless students living in their vehicles
Assuming the issue here is more the parking enforcement (or more like eviction) than who does it, aye?
Very true, doesn’t make much of a difference on the one hand whether it is contracted out or done in house. My point is more thata significant portion of many tow companies work is essentially privatized pig work, and that many profit off of the imiseration of poor and vulnerable people
Many moons ago, I lived in a gated apartment. It’s a relatively safe complex so I usually park my car away from my actual apartment.
One night I made an honest mistake and forgot to check if my parking permit was visible. Well, they impounded my car.
I didn’t know until five days later because I didn’t really drive my car I’d rather bike or bus to work (and I didn’t check my car because I thought it was safe)
I was never properly notified by the city or by the building manager my car was impounded (legally required in CA btw). I found out the hard way oddly enough, one night when I was walking to my car to do a weed and grocery run.
…lol I’m still in crippling debt from the loan I had to pull to get my car out of the lot.
Bonus points is that I finally got a letter from the city two months later saying my car was impounded, After i got my car back and paid the massive fees.
tow truck owners are heroic first responders and worthy of our respect! if it were not true, THE LORD would not have blessed them with his SIGN
(the industry is plagued with institutional corruption, kickbacks, self-dealing, criminality. it’s a legitimately scary threat to tell someone you’re going to have their car towed by the worst asshole [1 star review x 100] you can find in the directory.)
Story time: A local towing company is used rather extensively by a slumlord in town. When people raise too much of a stink about mold or rates going up, he’d call to have their cars illegally towed. It’s not like someone making ~30k a year can do much about it. To add to this, that towing company is outfitted like a goddamn fort and upon retrieving your car you have to sign a document that absolves you from any attempts to sue or say anything particularly libelous (true) about the company.
As an added note, as ridiculous as carbrains are, capitalism has also made it so stuff like reliable parking and reasonable fines can be hard to come by in parts. If this was paired with better bus and train infrastructure, I wouldn’t say a word.
One final note, there’s a cheeky little tune about towing companies called Lincoln Park Pirates.
The tow truck industry seems like it’s in bad shape. If your car is disabled and you need a tow, they’ll charge you a couple hundred bucks UNLESS it’s through AAA or an insurance rider or something, in which case you might pay $50 or nothing. Parking lot tow fees are also a couple hundred. I figure it’s like healthcare where systems for massive institutional purchases at massive discounts have made it pretty much impossible for small providers to get by, so they either get bought up by AAA or (not an option for medical) resort to, essentially, crime with private tow agreements.
Every tow driver I’ve met when purchasing a tow myself has been really nice, and the one that I met when being towed against my will (he wouldn’t unhook the car or give me a ride to the tow lot) was an asshole. As far as urbanism goes, I think that tows of cars that are in the wrong place should just be to a nearby spot, and you should give them a regular income-scaled fine if necessary. When Chicago tows cars for nonpayment of parking fines, etc., most of the owners can never afford to pay the rapidly-accruing lot fees and eventually the cars are sold for pennies. It’s regressive. But when the city tows cars because, e.g., they’re filming a movie on the block, they just move them a couple blocks over and your “punishment” is having to walk around for a bit and find your car. They should do that everywhere.
Look, I’ve had my car towed because I parked it where it wasn’t supposed to have been parked. Fair enough, I’ll pay the fee to get my car back.
But did they really have to steal the sunglasses that I owned for 10+ years and had traveled around the world in, that had one lense that was severely chipped? They were completely worthless and had only sentimental value. They stole them anyway.
Every time I’ve had a car towed for a mechanical failure, the driver is extremely happy to be actually helping someone for a change.
Fuck parking enforcement.
A few other people seem to have this notion but I’m genuinely curious, the fuck else do you do? Like is everything just a big parking lot now?
I know the answer is better infrastructure but from my experience over across the pond even with better infrastructure people still park illegaly because they can’t be arsed and it’s hardly enforced so I’m kind of wondering where you go from there
I don’t fully understand your question. Are you asking, what would we do without parking enforcement? There are a lot of people who park illegally and take up space whereever so we need parking enforcement. Is that how you mean it?
Because, personally, I wouldn’t have much problem with parking enforcement as such if that was the case but in reality they are predatory. Much like cops, if we had actual cops that respected the law and protected the people then I wouldn’t have a problem with their existence, but currently cops only protect the interests of the bourgeoisie and are ready to extrajudiciously murder anyone who gets in their way so then fuck them.
Parking enforcement could be needed but they end up just policing and ticketing the poor. People who are working and need to move their cars every couple of hours because they can’t afford a parking lot but they don’t want to get ticketed by vultures, if you live on a street and forgot to move your car for the street sweeper in the morning while you were getting ready then it’ll cost you hundreds of dollars, I had parking enforcement ticket me every day for months on a car I didn’t have the time or money to update registration on—they could have ticketed me once for $20 as a fix-it ticket and logged that I received it but, no, they want to ticket daily, multiple times. One guy who was ticketing me asked me once why I just didn’t update the registration when I confronted him and I yelled back at him, at what time am I supposed to go since I’m always working and with which money am I supposed to pay for it since I’m always paying off parking tickets. He ripped up the ticket that time, to his credit. I have a friend who was an Uber driver and pulled over to take a nap, paid for the meter, and overslept a bit by not even 10 minutes and woke up to a parking enforcement pig writing him a ticket that they refused to tear up despite literally seeing him taking a quick nap and waking up in time to explain. $60 nap. I’m sure if you asked, Hexbear would give you tons of stories of these fucking scummy parasites.
Their jobs come with quota requirements, which means that they must ticket some number of people otherwise their job is at risk. This leads them to ticket for anything and everything just to save themselves. They are bottom feeders who just prey on the poor. The rich asshole who parks his Porsche on the sidewalk may not care about the +$100 ticket but the working class guy who is trying to make ends meet and parked legally at the meter but slightly overstayed his time at a store might receive an unexpected bill that he can’t afford. I agree someone who parks their car on the damn playground needs to get some reprimand, but that’s not what happens on the daily. Daily, these assholes just police working class people who can’t afford homes with driveways or garages and don’t have apartments with designated parking spaces. Eventually they even tell each other about streets with certain cars that are always there so they can go ticket them, of course the cars belong to people who live there and are just getting by. They are vultures and leeches who make the poor poorer on a daily basis, lower than cops in my opinion, and roadside fucking bandits.
There are a lot of people who park illegally and take up space whereever so we need parking enforcement. Is that how you mean it?
Yeah, pretty much.
if you live on a street and forgot to move your car for the street sweeper in the morning while you were getting ready then it’ll cost you hundreds of dollars,
Cause like what’s the other option here? The state picks up the tab to have what would probably be a lot of cars being moved? No more street sweeping?
See the problem I see here is that your entire post seems only to center around the problems of the working poor so long as they do have cars (not that they don’t need them, don’t get me wrong), but like, what about people not in cars? I don’t think even in the US you find like a modal split of 100% car and those are the people that get routinely fucked over by illegal parking.
It’s not like I don’t share the ire, your uber driver example pisses me off over here where the cops priotize ticketing run out meters over people blocking the bike paths (or them doing themselves), I’m under no illusion here that it’s generally good, but I don’t see how you could forego it entirely. People here park on the sidewalks as a principle, despite there being enough space to park on the road and I mean sure - bollard off every sidewalk - but what do you do until then?
if you live on a street and forgot to move your car for the street sweeper in the morning while you were getting ready then it’ll cost you hundreds of dollars,
Cause like what’s the other option here? The state picks up the tab to have what would probably be a lot of cars being moved? No more street sweeping?
The other option is to have better city planning. They could have parking garages, lots, or spaces mandated for people who live nearby. But, also, street sweeping doesn’t need to stop. They can go around the cars. Do you know what happens in more affluent neighborhoods when they don’t move their cars? Nothing, no fines at all. The streets still manage to be cleaned. They are, of course, able to mostly keep their cars off the street because they have garages and driveways, etc. but parking should be made available to all tenants to avoid these issues. There should be parking structures related to neighborhood housing to reduce the need for street parking. Tenency can come with a sticker to place on your car and, there, problem solved. That would also help beautify the streets so they can be pedestrian walkways.
See the problem I see here is that your entire post seems only to center around the problems of the working poor so long as they do have cars (not that they don’t need them, don’t get me wrong), but like, what about people not in cars?
Yes, that is my focus because they are the ones, obviously, who will be more impacted by parking enforcement rather than those without cars. There are a lot of working poor without cars, but they suffer more mostly because they don’t have a car rather than because others do have cars. And we should have better transportation, etc. so that they don’t suffer just because they don’t have a car.
The thing is, we are both discussing very different conditions. I’m in the US, and I’m assuming you’re in Europe or the UK. Cars here are absolutely necessary, with extremely rare exceptions. I would prefer to live in a place, like Europe, where driving was optional, there was better public transportation, and the streets were more pedestrian and cyclist friendly. But it’s just not the reality here. The focus does go toward the driving working class, we are forced to drive. And, on top of that, we are hounded in the cities by parking enforcement vultures.
As I said initially, there has to be some reprimand for certain violations. Of course. As you mentioned, people parking on sidewalks where people are walking or those with disabilities have to get by, of course, there should be a ticketing or something. Everyone suffers from this, including drivers once they exit their cars. I’m not saying reprimands should never exist at all, I’m saying it shouldn’t exist in its current form. And the issues you raise are the exceptions to what they actually do, which is just harass regular people with minor infractions. Arguing that we should have parking enforcement because they deal with the rare issue is like saying we should have cops because sometimes they arrest murderers. Yes, someone should deal with those things that impact others but, as it stands, they are the ones who are mostly dealing the negative impact and mostly to working class people. It goes back to capitalism, in the US there are quotas set on them because cities and departments want the extra revenue. This turns them into predatory roles, both parking enforcement and regular cops but at least parking enforcement don’t carry guns to kill people—for now, anyway. I have seen people park on sidewalks in Europe and I’ve seen people here do stupid things too, they should be ticketed but the parking system—as well as other parallel systems—need serious overhaul. Until then, fuck parking enforcement.
Yes, that is my focus because they are the ones, obviously, who will be more impacted by parking enforcement rather than those without cars. There are a lot of working poor without cars, but they suffer more mostly because they don’t have a car rather than because others do have cars. And we should have better transportation, etc. so that they don’t suffer just because they don’t have a car.
See following paragraph, it plays into this, but I cannot be convinved that “well they suffer mostly because they don’t have cars so suffering from other peoples cars is negligible” is a great way to go
The thing is, we are both discussing very different conditions. I’m in the US, and I’m assuming you’re in Europe or the UK. Cars here are absolutely necessary, with extremely rare exceptions. I would prefer to live in a place, like Europe, where driving was optional, there was better public transportation, and the streets were more pedestrian and cyclist friendly. But it’s just not the reality here. The focus does go toward the driving working class, we are forced to drive. And, on top of that, we are hounded in the cities by parking enforcement vultures.
Germany to be specific and it’s no secret, but it’s basically why I’m asking - if I believed everyone here about their opinions of parking enforcement it sounds just the same as what you describe, it’s just not true.
Of course. As you mentioned, people parking on sidewalks where people are walking or those with disabilities have to get by, of course, there should be a ticketing or something.
Tickets don’t solve the issue of shit being blocked though. I mean that’s just arriving at “legal if you have money” again, surely?
And the issues you raise are the exceptions to what they actually do, which is just harass regular people with minor infractions. Arguing that we should have parking enforcement because they deal with the rare issue is like saying we should have cops because sometimes they arrest murderers.
So parking enforcement is best understood as ACAB here then?
Germany to be specific and it’s no secret, but it’s basically why I’m asking - if I believed everyone here about their opinions of parking enforcement it sounds just the same as what you describe, it’s just not true.
That’s cool. I really like Germany. People have always been really friendly with me. Again, we’re discussing two separate countries, states, and cities with two different systems. We could both be right in how we’re describing parking enforcement. I am not trying to convince you about how it is in Germany, I’ve traveled throughout Germany and have family and friends from Germany but I haven’t lived my daily life there as a driver so I wouldn’t know. I know how it is in the US and it is fundamentally predatory.
See following paragraph, it plays into this, but I cannot be convinved that “well they suffer mostly because they don’t have cars so suffering from other peoples cars is negligible” is a great way to go
I didn’t necessarily say it’s negligible, it’s just outside the scope of what I’m talking about. I’m talking about how predatory parking enforcement is, and that doesn’t really involve how people without cars suffer most. The nuances of how some people without cars are helped by parking enforcement is something that I acknowledge to be true at times but it’s offset by the typical work of parking enforcement. Whether people without cars are affected more by others with cars or those without cars is a different topic entirely, but from my own experience without cars and those I know without cars the complaint is rarely (but not non-existent) against other drivers but mostly against a shitty city planning system that makes it so difficult to not have a car. And the complaints in Germany might be different and might be toward the drivers themselves because you already have better city planning in many cities. We are still in the first stage of having larger issues with the city planning.
Tickets don’t solve the issue of shit being blocked though. I mean that’s just arriving at “legal if you have money” again, surely?
I said they should be “ticketed” to extend an olive branch to you if it helps since you like parking enforcement, but I agree ticketing doesn’t solve the problem. That’s also why I said “or something” because I think another method of handling this needs to be developed but I don’t know exactly what nor am I in a position to impose it as policy. So, I’m open to ideas.
So parking enforcement is best understood as ACAB here then?
Here? I don’t know, man. I’m just giving you my opinion. I’ve never discussed parking enforcement here before and I know there are some people that hate car-centric culture and cars so much they hate the drivers themselves so they might end up sympathizing with parking enforcement too. I hate how dependent we are on cars, and the fact that I need a car where I live, but I’m not going to hate working class drivers themselves for the situation they are forced to live in. Because of that, I’ll side with working class drivers over some scum parking enforcement. They force many of us to have cars and then always find any excuse to extract, extract, extract more and more. I’ve been held at gunpoint by police many times and hit by police and stopped unnecessarily by police, but I still hate parking enforcement more because they are such scummy class traitors leeching off the poor when they could just get a job at a grocery store or become a teacher or something, like the rest of us. I have absolutely no sympathy for them. So, for me, parking enforcement is included in ACAB.
