Judge Aileen Cannon has indefinitely postponed Donald Trump’s classified documents trial in Florida, citing significant issues around classified evidence that would need to be worked out before the federal criminal case goes to a jury.
Yes, I remember this. But people have wised up. How do I know? Because Trump lost while being a sitting president, an event that doesn’t happen often. At least in 2015/2016, a lot of people were giving him the benefit of the doubt. And it wasn’t the majority (he lost the popular vote, as we all know.)
Ignore the polls. Look at the trump signs around you. At least where I’m at in Florida, they’re probably at tenth of what they were in 2020. I was a republican in 2020 that voted for Biden and renounced my affiliation after the senate acquitted in the second impeachment. The only demographic that Trump is seeing increased support from is young men, a famously allergic to going to the polls group.
We should fight like hell to make it a landslide but the polls published right now are only there to drive engagement. Democrats have outperformed the polls by 5-10pts in every election since 2020.
In my experience over the last few election cycles the polls tend to understate the support of the right wing candidate
Almost all the polls showed Hillary winning in 2016
Almost all the polls showed Trump losing in a landslide in 2020, yes the dems got the whitehouse, the senate and the house but the majorities were much thinner than expected.
Exactly my experience. The poll would indicate a vast advantage of one candidate over the other, then the election shows results that are very, very close calls.
The polls are actually pretty good. There are two problems:
The US is very closely divided when it comes to the Presidential Election. In 2016 the popular vote split was about 2%. In 2020 it was about 4.5%. And most of the polling was right in that range.
People are shit at statistics. Most of the polls will be published with an error margin of 5% or so. For situations where on candidate is ahead 10-20%, this still puts that candidate winning by a comfortable margin. When the poll is showing a race with one person ahead by 2%, that means the poll is also showing that the other candidate winning is well within the expected result.
And unfortunately, people like clean story-lines and news organizations are more than happy to supply them. Journalists looked at the polls in 2016 and confidently proclaimed that Clinton was leading. The reality was that she had a slight lead and Trump winning was well within the normal margin of error. This turned into a rather famous spat on twitter.
Sadly, we’ve been stuck in that situation ever since. In 2020, Biden was a slight favorite, but Trump winning was within the margin of error. Right now, polls show a dead heat and either candidate winning would not be a surprise, if the election were held today. One upshot in this, is that pools this early are not very predictive of the final outcome. They shouldn’t be ignored, but that also shouldn’t be taken as gospel.
So ya, the polls are fine and do a good job of reflecting the actual results of the elections. The problem is idiots that only look at the top-line outcome and don’t look at the actual numbers and see that they are actually saying “it’s close and could go either way.”
It’s not like I disagree with you, but we’re looking at the same thing with different lens. You’re saying things like “science is accurate” which I can agree with. But then you see headlines like “science says vaccines cause autism,” and that’s what I’m talking about.
So, in your own words:
The polls are actually pretty good.
People are shit at statistics.
And unfortunately, people like clean story-lines and news organizations are more than happy to supply them.
We’re not disagreeing.
If I see a report that says “polls show that Biden/Trump/Clinton is winning,” I’ll think “I’ll believe it on election day.”
Just do a google search with these terms: polls show clinton trump biden
You will see polls largely favoring Hillary, or largely favoring Biden, or saying that Trump is winning. Then in the end the elections are pretty much 50/50.
As far as I can tell, reputable sources placed Clinton in the lead for 2016 with some margin of error to account for the electoral college. She did win the popular vote, so the polls I’ve seen were correct. Similar for Biden, but he had a larger lead in states that Clinton previously didn’t.
Sorry, I’m on my phone or I’d put more work in here, but you’re the one with the concern anyway so I’d think it would be better if you took the time to demonstrate your claim more thoroughly.
Trump mostly lost because of his handling of COVID. If he had just said, “hey everyone, this virus is dangerous you might want to take more care and listen to doctors” instead of making it political or denying it so long then he probably would have won. People have already forgotten COVID and are upset with inflation, and many of them blame Biden for that. They rightly aren’t happy with the economy, since rising stock markets and low unemployment doesn’t equate to rising wages to match inflation.
Biden has done a ton of good things as President, but it never gets press. The bad stuff he has done has gotten a ton of press. I think it will be close again and am hopeful Biden does better at highlighting the good things he’s done.
Yes, I remember this. But people have wised up. How do I know? Because Trump lost while being a sitting president, an event that doesn’t happen often. At least in 2015/2016, a lot of people were giving him the benefit of the doubt. And it wasn’t the majority (he lost the popular vote, as we all know.)
And yet the polls pretty consistently show him ahead
Ignore the polls. Look at the trump signs around you. At least where I’m at in Florida, they’re probably at tenth of what they were in 2020. I was a republican in 2020 that voted for Biden and renounced my affiliation after the senate acquitted in the second impeachment. The only demographic that Trump is seeing increased support from is young men, a famously allergic to going to the polls group.
We should fight like hell to make it a landslide but the polls published right now are only there to drive engagement. Democrats have outperformed the polls by 5-10pts in every election since 2020.
@ashok36@lemmy.world @laughterlaughter@lemmy.world
called it
Yeah I was wrong about a prediction I made six months ago. Before the Biden trump debate. Before the assassination attempt. Before the conventions.
You really got me.
Indeed, but to be frank, I take political polls with a grain of salt these days. They rarely reflect the actual result of the elections.
In my experience over the last few election cycles the polls tend to understate the support of the right wing candidate
Almost all the polls showed Hillary winning in 2016
Almost all the polls showed Trump losing in a landslide in 2020, yes the dems got the whitehouse, the senate and the house but the majorities were much thinner than expected.
Exactly my experience. The poll would indicate a vast advantage of one candidate over the other, then the election shows results that are very, very close calls.
The polls are actually pretty good. There are two problems:
And unfortunately, people like clean story-lines and news organizations are more than happy to supply them. Journalists looked at the polls in 2016 and confidently proclaimed that Clinton was leading. The reality was that she had a slight lead and Trump winning was well within the normal margin of error. This turned into a rather famous spat on twitter.
Sadly, we’ve been stuck in that situation ever since. In 2020, Biden was a slight favorite, but Trump winning was within the margin of error. Right now, polls show a dead heat and either candidate winning would not be a surprise, if the election were held today. One upshot in this, is that pools this early are not very predictive of the final outcome. They shouldn’t be ignored, but that also shouldn’t be taken as gospel.
So ya, the polls are fine and do a good job of reflecting the actual results of the elections. The problem is idiots that only look at the top-line outcome and don’t look at the actual numbers and see that they are actually saying “it’s close and could go either way.”
It’s not like I disagree with you, but we’re looking at the same thing with different lens. You’re saying things like “science is accurate” which I can agree with. But then you see headlines like “science says vaccines cause autism,” and that’s what I’m talking about.
So, in your own words:
We’re not disagreeing.
If I see a report that says “polls show that Biden/Trump/Clinton is winning,” I’ll think “I’ll believe it on election day.”
Really, like which ones?
Just do a google search with these terms: polls show clinton trump biden
You will see polls largely favoring Hillary, or largely favoring Biden, or saying that Trump is winning. Then in the end the elections are pretty much 50/50.
As far as I can tell, reputable sources placed Clinton in the lead for 2016 with some margin of error to account for the electoral college. She did win the popular vote, so the polls I’ve seen were correct. Similar for Biden, but he had a larger lead in states that Clinton previously didn’t.
Sorry, I’m on my phone or I’d put more work in here, but you’re the one with the concern anyway so I’d think it would be better if you took the time to demonstrate your claim more thoroughly.
Trump mostly lost because of his handling of COVID. If he had just said, “hey everyone, this virus is dangerous you might want to take more care and listen to doctors” instead of making it political or denying it so long then he probably would have won. People have already forgotten COVID and are upset with inflation, and many of them blame Biden for that. They rightly aren’t happy with the economy, since rising stock markets and low unemployment doesn’t equate to rising wages to match inflation.
Biden has done a ton of good things as President, but it never gets press. The bad stuff he has done has gotten a ton of press. I think it will be close again and am hopeful Biden does better at highlighting the good things he’s done.