The government should not have this level of power. Executive Order or legislation, it doesn’t matter, a sports league should be able to set its own policies for membership. As per the Constitutional right to freedom of assembly.
Sports: more inclusive than the government since 1947.
This sounds like a good way to foster vast inequality. You’ll have good places where people are included and able to grow up into reasonable people, then you’ll have other places where people are utterly ostracized and never even have a chance. This isn’t some magical capitalist world where people can just pick up and move to wherever is ‘best’, there will be people who are stuck. When those people don’t have the resources they need, the cycle will just end up perpetuating again, and the inequality builds on itself.
The government has to have the ability to keep rogue states from declaring swathes of the population as second class citizens. Yes, there’s the obvious downside of “What happens if” - but we’re in this together and we have to try for the only tenable solution. That growing inequality will affect the ‘good’ areas, even if they put their fingers in their ears and say “lalalalalala not my problem”.
right of the people peaceably to assemble…
hm what’s your opinion on sundown towns i wonder
Not a fan.
“But what about the sanctity of women’s sports?” - People with no interest whatsoever in women’s sports.
Yup. The very same people who regularly mock women’s sport.
Is roller derby a real sport? I always figured it was more performance than sport like pro wrestling.
Yes, it’s a real sport.
A badass one at that. Their athleticism and reflexes are unreal.
Roller derby in the 70s was likely scripted. Modern roller derby is almost definitely not. Tons of legit athleticism and power out there.
It’s a little dated by now, but watch Blood on the Flat Track. It’s about the Roller Derby resurgence from 15ish years ago.
Even if scripted, roller derby in the 70’s took athleticisms and power. I agree the sport of roller derby is different now, but practitioners of the past deserve respect. The level of training/conditioning in all sports is very different now, does not mean past practitioners were not athletes. Comparisons across eras is difficult because standards change.
Don’t know why you’re being downvoted for asking an honest question. You asked it in good faith.
Starting to think you people just can’t live without having something to be angry with.
My hypothesis: corporate social media has trained us to be combative for engagement, and our habits/attitudes haven’t fully adapted to fediverse yet.
They say getting angry over imagined Internet points.
Go watch a roller derby event. It’s pretty fun and mostly chaos. But there’s some real skill and strategy involved.
Pro wrestling isn’t real?
You need to watch this incredibly accurate historical movie on the topic
Its very real Source: I’ve been officiating it for 13 years
Is roller derby a real sport?
It’s the NASCAR of women’s sport.
Pro soccer is more performance than pro wrestling but we call that a sport
Pro soccerFootball is moreperformanceentertaining than pro wrestling butwe call thatit’s still a sportThere, fixed it for you.
tell me you have never watched a professional soccer game without telling me you have never watched a professional soccer game…
I assume that he’s disparaging the act that soccer players put on to act like they’re much more seriously injured than they are when fouled.
I would guess that the reason that some people really don’t like that is that in some other sports, being able to play through the pain may be considered admirable, so culture friction.
Some sports, sure. But basketball is pretty popular and it seems like a pretty good chunk of the strategy there is drawing fouls.
Tbh the penalties for simulation in a lot of leagues have been turning the tides on the egregious theatrics. I’d agree what you were saying was a lot more prevalent, say a decade or so ago.
You’ll still always be able to cherry pick incidents, and some leagues will be worse than others for it, but the game has moved on a bit, and you do see it way less frequently than we did even just a few years ago.
Edit: elsewhere in the thread reminded me of the other aspect of this
There’s also the tactical fouls which are (whether you agree with it or not) part of the modern game. A player can weigh up the risk of getting sent off if they think it might prevent the opposition from otherwise scoring. These kinds of fouls can look pretty cynical to those unfamiliar with it, not least of all because they tend to also be softer than genuine fouls as the players tend to not want to actually injure themselves and others. So just enough of a foul to stop play, but ideally not even pick up a yellow card, and often in this scenario if the victim of the foul clocks what’s going on, they’ll try to hit the ground harder to increase the chances the fouling player gets booked.
A player (or even team) can probably only get away with this once or twice in a game before they piss off the ref though, and players will start getting sent off. In the same vein teams want to avoid getting a reputation for it too, otherwise they’ll end up facing much closer scrutiny.
“culture friction” because people don’t like it when the players of a game cheat?
the act that soccer players put on to act like they’re much more seriously injured than they are when fouled.
Far from all players do that and it’s reviled by football (as opposed to handegg) fans too, as well as against the rules of the sport.
There’s a lotta sportsball people on here
I also feel superior to others by disparaging their hobbies.
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Not my hobby, I love sports! My Phillies have the best record in baseball right now!
Sports ball is the best ball
Tell me you’ve never seen Neymar roll about on the pitch without telling me you’ve never seen Neymar rolling about on the pitch…
Fun fact: Neymar is an anomaly, not the norm. Pretending otherwise is just prejudice stemming from cherry picking and/or ignorance.
Ive never watched a professional soccer game, Ill just tell you that. But I do watch American football and enjoy playful ribbing more than you.
Ha, I knew it.
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If a 5ft trans woman who started transitioning when she was a teen faces off against a 6ft cis volleyball player, should the cis woman be not allowed to compete?
What about cis olympians? They all have natural advantages that make their ability to compete at high levels possible, why are you not calling for them to be banned? Britney Griner is a giant at nearly 7ft, surely she shouldn’t be allowed to compete when she has such a innate advantage over your average cis woman, right?
Okay? So what are the rules then? Only trans people that started transitioning before a certain age? Or has been transitioning for a certain number of years? Or should we measure bone density, muscle density, estrogen, testosterone, other various hormones, etc? What if they were a competitive athlete before transitioning? Is it transphobic to ask a person to prove they meet these requirements? Because apparently, based on the mods here, it’s transphobic to even consider that a person who was born a man might have a physical advantage over someone born a woman.
It’s not like all athletes taking PEDs are better than all of their natural counterparts. But it does afford them an unfair advantage. So we ban their use. A trans person could have an advantage that is the result of them being born a man. This is real and has happened. The existence of that possibility is no different than the possibility an athlete would be superior as a result of PEDs.
Yes, the rules that have been in place about transition time have served fine since even before right-wingers politicized trans people’s existence.
The irrational part is to try and create blanket bans based solely on the fact that an athlete is trans.
It completely ignores the fact that trans biology falls on a very wide spectrum and is dependent on numerous factors. It doesn’t make sense to treat trans athletes as their assigned at birth sex because their biology is literally no longer that of their birth gender. It varies by degrees, but it is no more fair to ban a cis woman for being tall than it is to ban a trans woman for being the same height.
So no, it is not transphobic to have rules and regulations specific to trans athletes when it comes to competitive level sports (whatever experts and committees decide is fair based on actual data) it is transphobic to just outright ban trans people based solely on that status and ignore the biological reality of the individual and whether or not they fall within the range of cis competitors (spoiler, most do).
It’s really stupid for people to get this outraged about a tiny percentage of the population, an even smaller percentage of which actually compete at high levels.
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Cis women and trans women have been found to have comparable performance in sports. Generally, cis women have an advantage over trans women.
I’m sure that you’ll be objective and apply the same reasoning against cis women now that you know they have a physical advantage over other women.
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What the hell are you on about?
You know what, go ahead and list these record settings. I want to see them.
Omit “school record” or any regional / divisional / age related records. Those get set and broke constantly. Show me ACTUAL records. World records. Professional league records.
Insofar as I know, there’s been two trans folk to make it to the Olympics. One is Quinn, AFAB soccer midfielder who is nb. Their team won gold in the 2020 Olympics.
The other is Laurel Hubbard of New Zealand, who was competing in weightlifting, which I think we can agree is either the most ideal or close to the most ideal situation for conservatives and TERF’s to push their nonsense takes wrt trans folks in sports. Laurel failed her three lift attempts and placed last in her group.
I think anyone would be hard pressed to say in either of those two cases the trans person was malicious or “cheating” somehow.
Thanks. It was a genuine question. I’ve never heard of a single trans person who has set such a record.
Every time I hear stuff on the news it’s “Trans girl shatters high school record”. Given that there are basically thousands of possible records per grade per school, I would absolutely expect a few records to be set by trans girls. The thousands of records set per year by cis girls goes unrecognized and unreported.
Whenever cis girls succeed, they’re ignored. Whenever transgender people succeed, they’re punished. Whenever they fail, they’re still punished.
Quinn was AFAB and has not taken testosterone.
Wikipedia ID’s them as trans, so they’re on the very short list of trans olympic athletes.
That may be but since they haven’t done any chemical transition it’s entirely irrelevant. What all these shitlords get up up in arms about is MTF.
That must be why we’ve repeatedly seen instances where trans women set records within the women’s category of their respective sport! Because it’s all equal and impossible for a trans woman to have an advantage.
Name three.
Of the dozen or so times when a top ranked female tennis player played either a much lower ranked or handicapped male player, I think the male lost only once (1973 King vs Riggs, through there are claims that Riggs threw the match).
There exist sports where having XX chromosome is not a disadvantage. Male and female equestrians have been competing against each other in the Olympics since the modern Olympics began.
The issue of gender and ‘what makes a woman a woman’ in sports is not new. There are plenty of cases of men pretending to be women and claiming top prizes. I don’t envy the officials who have to do gender tests , as there are many people who are neither XX or XY.
EDIT: now that I’ve had some time to go though my sources a little better, I should correct a couple things. According to the Wikipedia article, females have won more than a couple matches against males, though all of those matches involved either a handicap or a much lower ranked male. The Williams sisters themselves only claimed they could beat any male outside the top 200 (but they both lost by a wide margin in friendly sets to #203).
Male and Female equestrians have only been competing against each other since 1952, and not since the beginning of the modem Olympics.
“The entire reason for women’s sports is…”
…is actually because they were banned from playing sports until 1974, and then when allowed starting beating some men’s teams and the men bellyached about it.
Personally, I have competed in powerlifting, one sport that has gotten attention in the press for not letting trans women compete with cis women, particularly after a trans woman beat out other cis women by huge margin in competition.
I will let the ladies know that the only reason they’re in their own division is actually because of oppression and they should have no issue competing against men.
That is the case in modern sports science, yes, but the interesting thing - at least to me is - that’s not what happened in real life.
That may be the case now but that is not how it came to be.
