No one expects a state official to mention the fucking Inquisition to defend their own crimes against humanity.
Ikr! Pretty sure its a reference to the Spanish Inquisition’s expulsion of Jewish people in the 1490s.
In other words it’s not just super random whataboutism, it’s also a dogwhistle to the “chosen people versus antisemitic rest of the world” narrative that Netanyahu et al use to drum up support from their base.
Israel’s cries of victimhood were already starting to wear thin when it was focused on the Holocaust. Yes, it was a terrible tragedy, but it’s 80 years ago at this point - very, very few people are left that were directly involved and the circumstances have changed significantly since then. But going back over five hundred years to try to find “gotchas” is just sad and counterproductive.
People are suffering right now and being persecuted right now, and it has nothing to do with the Inquisition or the Nazis.
It’s even more ironic when you know that the PSOE, the current ruling party in Spain, voted in favor of granting Spanish nationality to the descendants of the Sephardic Jews who were expelled by the Inquisition 5 centuries ago and applied for it.
Funny. The Inquisition came after the Muslim rulers were driven out of Spain. Before there was a vibrant Jewish life in southern Spain.
Terrorist state Israel threatens violence to enact political goals.
The real title right there
It’s totally antisemitic if you ask us to stop while we’re genociding!
The US’ dog has rabies
You have it backwards, Biden is the lapdog, not Netanyahu.
Netanyahu is the tail, America is the dog.
But sometimes the tail wags the dog
Both dog and it’s tail are stationary, space time moves around it.
Precisely.
Israel and Russia acting pretty much the same way at the moment. Yet most of the Western world supports one while condemning the other.
I don’t know anyone outside of the political class and a few right wing nutters that supports israel, especially after the images coming out of rafah in the last few days
edit: even my daily heil reading “shoot em in the channel” relative was perturbed
I absolutely support the right of Israel to exist and defend itself against Hamas. I just don’t think that this sanctions the bombing of innocent Palestinians in Gaza or to pursue an aggressive settlement policy.
I am in favor of Israel.
I am strongly opposed to Netanyahu. Fuck that guy and his entire government.
israel is a settler colony founded on terror and apartheid.
So is the US and lots of other countries.
They aren’t “defending themselves” they are the aggressors
I support the right of Israeli civilians who aren’t part of the right wing to exist. The rest should reap what they sow.
deleted by creator
It would have been harder to support Ukraine if they went and killed thousands of innocent Russian before being aggressed by Russia. But they didn’t.
Most of the west do support the right for Israel to defend itself from such attack, but there is no doubt that Israel went way to far with their riposte. No matter if the Hamas uses the Palestinian as meat shield, Israel made so many “mistakes” and killed so many innocents that it should have asked long ago for the UN to intervene in their place to avoid further unnecessarily killing.
No they really are hateful people, they are just using this as an excuse to kill people they hate, it’s not a mistake they’re meaning to do this. They were never going to ask the UN to intervene because that would have robbed them of the opportunity to commit mass slaughter.
That why I’m talking about “mistakes”. No one in their right mind would believe them.
You’re wrong. Palestinians have a right to defend themselves, but they’re being oppressed and genocided for decades and no one gives a shit. Israel doesn’t have ANY rights.
I never denied Palestinians right to defend themselves. They are oppressed by an apartheid-like regime (no matter how democratic it is), and have every right to denounce that. But I can’t either blame the Israeli to try to defend themselves when Hamas goes and assassinate men women and children in cold blood. No amount of oppression can justify this kind of violence.
And now we got Hamas hiding behind the starving Palestinian population, while Israel indiscriminately bomb everyone with no care for their safety.
In the end we have two evil fighting each other, while the general populace (especially Palestinian) suffers. I can’t support either, best I can is to support ending this senseless war to allow those who suffers to rebuild and seek a peaceful solution that bring everyone together as equals. There was multiple time in history where we were quite close to a solution, but every time, extremist of both side went and fucked everything over.
Lol what?
Israel dismisses any and all criticism, and always complains about medieval history as an ad hominem attack. Turkey complains about Israel killing Turkish civilians? Israel replies something about Turkey mistreating Armenians. German government complains about mistreatment of Palestinians? Call them modern Nazis. Now Spain gets derided as something from nearly 600 years ago.
The Armenian genocide wasn’t that long ago, it happened during my grandmother’s lifetime, and the current leader of Turkey still denies it was a genocide. But bringing up the Spanish inquisition in 2024 is wack.
Armenian genocide could have happened yesterday, OP was drawing attention to the raging whataboutism that forms a central pillar of Israeli politics.
Yeah, I get that. I just wanted to clarify that it was a lot more recent than the middle ages, especially with how much genocide denial has been attempting to minimize those atrocities lately.
“UK wants to talk about a Healthcare System mere centuries after their mismanaged handling of the Bubonic plague?” - Israel probably
I mean what else can someone say about Spain?
“You no good, uhh, soccer playing, erm, siesta taking…urm… flamenco…look over there, it’s the Spanish inquisition!”
Franco, and killing bulls for pleasure
Dear Israel: If everyone is a fascist but you, maybe YOU’RE the fascist?
I’m sorry, are you comparing Spain to a religious crusade when you’re literally in the middle of genociding an ethnicity and their religion? You’re fucking insane Israel.
I think they might be remembering that time Spain evicted all the Jews?
Yeah but Israel is a country. It is not representative of all Jews, as much as Netanyahu would like it to be.
Not saying they’re right, just I think that’s what was being referenced.
They are in the mood to fight everybody. They no longer care about optics. Genocide without borders to be continued.
As long as the US backs them up they feel invincible. I’m sure the nukes help, too. They’re like Russia.
Yeah and if they start attacking NATO countries it’s going to end badly for them. The US will drop support like a hot rock. They really won’t like it I’m sure, but they are not going to back Israel over NATO, it’s just not happening.
well israel has attacked a nato country before to no consequence. The United States.
Do you mean that oopsie with the USS Liberty? That kind of thing happens occasionally but cooler heads prevail as long as everyone communicates. There was also an incident when a Turkish f-16 (Turkey being a NATO member) shot down a Russian su-24, but nobody went to war over it.
Point stands - Israel attacking a NATO nation wouldn’t cause american support to waver. Israel serves our colonial interests too much for that.
Yes I’m just saying that if the sides (even if they are enemies like Russia/NATO) are not interested in going to war, they will tolerate isolated incidents. even with casualties. This isn’t something unique to the america-israel relationship
deleted by creator
What do you mean Israel in the United States have never had a conflict between them
Referencing this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident?wprov=sfti1
Yeah, not a conflict. And so long ago that the current political situation is totally different.
The US wouldn’t have a choice, if Israel attacks a NATO country then it’s article 5 automatically. Then their only option would be to leave NATO and they’re not going to do that.
You are not arguing in good faith.
Okay man. Note that nowhere in the comment chain before you decided to chime in did anyone say conflict. And as far as I know, an attack is an attack and it usually warrants retaliation. But Israel gets unlimited oopsies, lord forbid that Egypt or Lebanon does this, it’s immediately casus belli if the current governments aren’t friendly.
Will they?
Not only is the inquisition over, but Spain is welcoming Sephardic Jews and offers them citizenship. This is how one Palestinian refugee from Yaffa got Spanish citizenship.
A 26-year-old lecturer in architecture at Birmingham City University, Iskandarani has been stateless for most of her life, possessing only a Lebanese travel document that defines her as a Palestinian refugee.
But after discovering that her Palestinian father had Jewish roots going back to Spain, Iskandarani was able to claim Spanish citizenship thanks to a 2015 law that promised to naturalize anyone whose Jewish ancestors fled the Spanish Inquisition.
“Absurdly our conversion to Islam got us exiled from Jaffa yet again for again being of different religion and ethnicity,” she wrote. “Quite ironic don’t you think being exiled twice for the exact same reason?”
I hate that people have to prove they have the right ancestry just to be treated like human beings.
Comparing the current ruling party in Spain with the inquisition is specially ironic, if you know that they voted in favor of granting the descendants of the Sephardic Jews expelled by the Inquisition the Spanish nationality if they applied for it, less than 10 years ago.
https://religionnews.com/2014/02/17/sephardic-jews-eager-apply-spanish-citizenship/
If anything, you could argue that this created an Islamophobic or Pro-Jewish double standard, since the descendants of Muslims expelled by the inquisition weren’t granted that right.
Israel threatening to 9/11 spain for telling them to stop doing a genocide.
The Spanish Inquisition is over… now begins the Isreali Inquisition.
Sigh.
Ha, everyone expects the Israeli inquisition…
Such empty threats. I’d love to see them try to attack an European nation, their support in the west would end literally instantly.
They’d probably still be allowed into Eurovision though 🙃
And get 12 points from Germany.
Don’t be agitated by the headline.
Here ‘harm’ is meant in a diplomatic way. They put restrictions on the Spanish consulate. It is strong language, but nobody is talking about physical harm (just as Spain hasn’t harmed Israel physically).
From the article:
According to these measures, Israel prohibits the Spanish consulate in Jerusalem from “conducting consular activities or providing consular services to residents of the Palestinian Authority”, although it clarified that the measure does not apply to people with Spanish nationality.
So even their diplomatic retaliation screams Apartheid
So if a Spanish-Palestinian couple wants to sort things out to visit Spain or deal with administrative stuff they can’t. Palestinians who have family in Spain and need to deal with their affairs can’t now.
While it is not physical harm, it has huge psychological implications and many of which are equally terrible. Imagine a family member dies in Spain and you can’t even go to the consulate to arrange for the funeral.
their support in the west would end literally instantly.
I don’t know… You might be surprised how far some European countries are willing to go to gobble up zionist dick
Opposing Israel’s military action on a European country would be antisemitic of course.
No chance. An open military attack would be the end of Israel. Spain is a EU and NATO member. Article 5 would be called and accepted by most NATO members. If not the alliance would be over immediately.
Lets assume the US noped out (which they would never do if Israel dared to attack Spain). That would be the end of NATO but Israel would have to deal with the EU. Even Spain by itself could cause some serious damage to Israel. And they wouldn’t be by themselves.
I’m Portuguese, and my country is the historical rival of Spain. An attack on Spain would be like a direct attack on us and most EU members feel the same.
This, of course, is hypothetical. There’s no way Netanyahu would pull such a dumb and unthinkable move.
that is the gist of most right wing/nationalist leaders’ speeches. For the better part of the last decade Erdoğan has been doing the same against the EU (and international shadow enemies) to gain votes.
Fuck Israel right in the ass with a 2x4.
They have become the very genocidal monster that they were once the victims of.
Fuck Israel.
Israel was never the Nazis’ victim, Jewish people were. Israel is not equal to Jewish people and this is doing a huge disservice to all the Jewish people around the world fighting against this colonial state.
Wasn’t modern Israel founded by Holocaust Survivors or something? I dunno history I just always heard that…
Zionism is an Austrian idea, that the British started to enact after the Ottoman Empire fell in 1917. The United Nations then published their partition plan in 1947 which was followed by the Israel Declaration of Independence in 1948.
Which means yes, technically the founding was done by Holocaust Survivors, but in reality Israels history is not too dissimilar to Colonialism.
Thanks, that may be what I’m thinking of. Regardless of how Israel started, what they’re doing now is Genocide.
We also have to remember that prior to 1917, in order to get their cooperation, The British and French promised various Arab states land and independence after the fall of the Ottomans. Only to THEN turn around and form the Sykes-Picot agreement divvying up the land amongst themselves. This is where the idea of a Zionist state first began to be discussed and various Arab groups were betrayed to make it happen.
I’m not saying terrorists aren’t evil. But everything in the middle east is the result of “the west” fucking the people over there over for more than a hundred years.
To be fair, Jews were also massive victims of empire and colonialism. They were kicked around Europe for centuries since the Greeks and the Romans.
Now, on the fall of the Ottoman Empire all kinds of populations coalesced into nation-states (also, all while kicking out people that did not identify with the new nation - massive population exchanges at the time, millions of dead in forced marches out of a region). Most back to the heartlands of their ancestral lands - so the idea wasn’t far fetched.
Unfortunately, unlike those other populations Jews were in diaspora so long that they had kept little physical connection with that land which was now occupied mostly by Palestinians.
Fun fact: A plan was hatched to allocate a portion of Australia instead
Fun fact: A plan was hatched to allocate a portion of Australia instead
“Shalom, cunt!”
Not really, it was started before the Holocaust, and it involved actual Nazis. See, antisemites are often quite happy with Zionism because they like the idea of an ethnostate that they can ship all the Jews off to. That’s why pre-WWII German Zionists were able to negotiate the Haavara Agreement, which allowed them to transfer their property to Palestine, and allowed 60,000 Jews to migrate there before WWII.
You need to read a book
Can we not act like this?
If someone is misinformed then you educate and correct them, not mock them. Especially when the person in question is clearly open minded and willing to learn.
You do that, I’ll do what I think is helping the most
Probably
Yeah, but pretending they don’t happen to be Jewish just undercuts our credibility.
And yet the people who run Israel are all Jewish. So it’s certainly fair to criticize them for committing atrocities like ones that that were done to their people in the past. The Israeli government, not Jews in general.
(Israel \ Non-Jewish Israelis) ⊂ Jews
There, in precise mathematical notation. Yes, that’s actually a tautology, but we all know the Arab Israelis and similar aren’t in the drivers seat of anything.
As a woodworker I am compelled to point out that milled lumber is available in much larger nominal dimensions than 2x4. There’s no need to limit yourself.
6x6 support beam? Something real nice.
What about a 4 inch thick whole trunk bark on slab like they make those ridiculous trendy “river tables” out of?
They have become
Always have been
“They” in this context clearly means “Jews”.
Can we please stop with this shit? This is why the pro-Palestine side of this conflict keeps being branded as antisemites. Because you can’t seem to help yourself but to make arguments where “Israel” and “Jews” are interchangeable terms.
They aren’t. Jews were victims of the Holocaust. Israel was not. If you can’t tell the difference, leave the activism to the people who can.
“They” in this context clearly means “the government of Israel”, which is made up of Jews. It’s not “all Jews” it’s “these specific people in power who are also Jews”. You could use this same bullshit claim to say that criticizing the US government is anti-Christian. No, it’s not.
I’m sorry, the Israeli government was a victim of genocide? When? From whom?
EDIT: Let’s try that on for size, quoting the words I’m criticizing.
[The Israeli government] have become the very genocidal monster that [the Israeli government] was once the victim of.
Makes no fucking sense. Nobody has ever genocided Israelis.
You know that though, because you said:
which is made up of Jews.
Then you have made the target of your hatred quite clear. It’s Jews that you hate.
Instead of countering my argument, you are engaging in pedantry. You know exactly what I meant.
But for the pedants, I’ll rephrase my original statement:
FUCK ISRAEL RIGHT IN THE ASS WITH A 2x4.
The Israeli government, themselves descendants of survivors of one of the most horrific genocidal events in human history, have chosen to become perpetrators of genocide.
FUCK ISRAEL.
Sigh. The first “they” is the Israeli government, the second is Jews in general. The first “they” refers to who is committing atrocities, the second is referring to who has been the victim of atrocities historically. It’s either bad faith or obtuse of you to try to interpret it any other way.
I hate the people in the Israeli government who are committing genocide. They happen to be Jews, which means that you would think they’d try to be better based on the history of atrocities being committed against them.
Look, this sentence only makes sense if both “theys” are the same group of people.
It’s really not that hard to avoid blaming Jews for Israel’s war crimes.
You can either acknowledge that this is a bad argument, or you can double down on blaming Jews. What’s it going to be?
Look, this sentence only makes sense if both “theys” are the same group of people.
I’m gonna give you the benefit of the doubt, against my better judgement.
“The Israeli government has become the very genocidal monster that Jews were once the victims of.”
What about this sentence doesn’t make sense to you? And why do you insist on seeing antisemitism in it?
Because the statement, as you present it, is more nuanced that what I usually hear people say. It isn’t the statement I originally responded to either, it’s the rewritten version you’re demanding I respond to, only after you redefined the “theys” to something that isn’t so obvious antisementic. It’s also kinda meaningless to say “The Israeli government has become the very genocidal monster that Jews were once the victims of.” written as it is, it it only serves as an attempt to compare Israel to Nazis, which isn’t off-base, but is also better communicated than this.
My issue is with what people typically mean whey they say this. 99.9% of the time, people are saying “Jews were genocided by Nazis, and now they’re genociding Palestinians”. I understand the sentiment, and why people would jump to this “the oppressed has become the oppressor” rhetoric, but this isn’t an appropriate statement. Jews aren’t attacking Gaza and its people - Israel is.
Sure, the majority of Israel’s leadership is ethnically Jewish, but that’s not a reason to blame Jews for what Israel is doing. There are countless Jews that are not Israeli, do not work for the Israeli state, and do not support what Israel is doing. Directing blame at an entire ethnic group because of what a foreign military is doing is overtly bigoted.
My issue isn’t about you, it is about the consistent anti-Israel rhetoric that fails to separate Israel from the Jewish people. You may consider your criticisms of Israel to be logical and rational, with clarity of target, so it’s probably pretty easy for you to handwaved these things away. But Jews know when people are talking about them, and the original comment I responded to was blaming Jews for what Israel is doing to Gaza.
Just because I’m anti-Israel doesn’t mean I’m turning a blind eye to Jew-hate. Downvote me all you want, downvotes aren’t anonymous here, and Antisemites deserve to be on a list when they make clear what they stand for.
I know exactly what I said. I said Israel, as in the state of.
As a state is composed of the members of its government, I used the plural pronoun “they.”
Get off of your horse.
Okay, so what group committed genocide against Israel? If that’s what the “they” means, who was it?
Because the Holocaust ended 3 years before Israel existed, so unless the “they” is “Jews”, I wanna know what genocide you were referring to.
See my reply later in this thread.
israel has become the very definition of a rogue nation.
…exactly what the us wants from its middle east attack dog.
