• disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    It was unanimous because Russia abstained. Putin loves the refocus on Israel while he continues his genocidal war crimes in Ukraine under the US media radar.

    For those who haven’t been keeping up, Russia has abducted 700,000 Ukrainian children to be raised as Russians in foster homes since the war began. It’s genocide on a scale 20 times larger than Palestine, and isn’t making national headlines in the US due to the focus on Israel.

    The US formally declared this as genocide in the House of Representatives with a 390-9 vote in April by invoking the UN Genocide Convention, and the ICC has issued arrest warrants. Did you see any headlines about that?

    Russia is also the largest investor in the sanctioned Iran economy that is directly funding Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis.

    • Kellamity@sh.itjust.works
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      5 months ago

      I was sceptical of this claim so I did some research - 700,000 is almost certainly too high, but other than that it’s disturbingly true:

      The 700,000 number comes from a Russian parliamentarian in 2023, and refers to orphaned and abandoned children Russia has ‘protected’ from conflict zones in Ukraine. A later Russian report walked this back a bit, and claimed that most of this number were children accompanied by family voluntarily escaping the fighting by feeling into Russia.

      Obviously we should be sceptical of what Russia says about this, but this is not the same number as the number of children abducted - not even Ukraine alleges it to be this high.

      The number of children abducted and forcibly deported was officially reported by Kyev to be 19,000 to 20,000 at the time of the above claim based on the data (nearly 30,000 now). The real number is almost certainly higher - many Ukranian officials believe the actual amount is higher, with one saying it may be into the ‘hundreds of thousands’. A US report in 2022 estimates that Russia has “interrogated, detained, and forcibly deported… 260,000 children, from their homes to Russia”

      Even if we take only the low amount that can be fairly positively stated as abductions, that’s nearly 30,000 children. Various reports have shown some of these children being given new Russian identities and false birth certificates, and being put up for adoption in Russia. Some have testified to being indoctrinated and shown pro-Kremlin propaganda.

      This broadly constitutes Cultural Genocide - whether it technically is or not is for academics to argue over, because the legal definition of genocide is complicated and so much is unkown.

      Whether or not you want to call it a Genocide, it is undeniably a War Crime. The ICC has issued arrest warrents for Putin and Russian Children’s Rights Commissioner Maria Lvova-Belova over this.

    • jumjummy@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      And yet not a peep from these “Genocide Joe” people. They’re either Russian disinformation agents, or useful idiots.

      • TheFriar@lemm.ee
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        5 months ago

        I get what you’re saying, but I’m pretty damn sure you’re confusing Americans’ inability to focus on more than one issue at a time with the seemingly catch-all “bots!” thing.

        Don’t attribute to malice what can easily be attributed to stupidity/ignorance/laziness.

        • jumjummy@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          No, what everyone here seems to talk about is how the President is supporting genocide, while failing to mention that Biden alone can’t do anything to fund Israel.

          Where are you seeing any criticism towards the GOP? All I’m seeing are the same “Genocide Joe” and “Both Sides” people being the most vocal.

          • FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
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            5 months ago

            Yeah, given it’s a center stance and not remotely a partisan issue in this election it’s probably better not to talk about it outside of the context of supporting protests and spreading news about the conflict.

    • FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
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      5 months ago

      It seems like the potential for an ethnicity to disappear completely after decades of starvation, oppression, and embargo is a more pressing concern than a war between two competent militarized nations, but yeah I agree they’re at completely different scales in every aspect except funding from third parties.

    • Scotty_Trees@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      I’m legit not trying to troll here, but I vaguely recall a news story last month where Biden said it’s not genocide. I forget if he was referring to Ukraine or Gaza, but either way I was kind of dumbfounded like wtf.

      • AA5B@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        It becomes a game of semantics. “Genocide” is not just a loaded term but it has a definition you can argue against, without disagreeing on the scope of the atrocity. Arguing about whether it fits the definition is just a redirect so we’re not talking about the scale of the suffering

    • JimSamtanko@lemm.ee
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      5 months ago

      And you can’t even bring this up as an argument against the “gEnOciDe jOe” kids because it gets removed for “whataboutism” in almost every thread.

      They have their agenda pretty locked down

    • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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      5 months ago

      “The news is so focused on children trapped in a war zone but they’re ignoring the real issue we should be focusing on: children being safely transported out of a war zone.”

      • disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        Russia is taking Ukrainian children, placing them in foster care, and putting them up for adoption to be raised as Russians. This is the definition of genocide.

        Genocide is an internationally recognized crime where acts are committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. These acts fall into five categories:

        1. Killing members of the group
        2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
        3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
        4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
        5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
          • disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            You are implying this is some diplomatic decision. They are being abducted. They have no choice. Again, these children are being placed in foster homes and put up for adoption to be raised as if they are Russian. This isn’t a refugee rescue operation. It’s cultural genocide. You’re either wildly obtuse, or in defense of genocide.

            https://www.reuters.com/world/us-aware-credible-reports-russia-is-listing-ukrainian-children-adoption-white-2024-06-12/

            • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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              5 months ago

              So you would prefer that they be left where they are, understood.

              Personally I think it’s good that children not be left in dangerous, traumatic situations, but if you want to classify something as “genocide” when it involves saving the lives of the “victims,” then I guess I am defending “genocide.” And if you wanted to call if “murder” when I take a drink of water, I guess that means I’ll defend “murder” too. If you play around with words enough you can make anything look bad.

              I consider people being slaughtered worse than children being raised in a culture different from that of their parents, so sue me.

                • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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                  5 months ago

                  You’re using a false-dilemma argument

                  No, I’m using a real-dilemma argument. If you’d care to provide an alternative to taking them out of a war zone or leaving them there, I would love to hear it.

                  How many Rubles do you get per comment?

                  Of course, the “everyone who disagrees with me is a secret agent” conspiracy theory. I’m not feeling particularly quippy today so I’m not going to bother making fun of it.

              • Honytawk@lemmy.zip
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                5 months ago

                We would prefer they go with their parents or at least family.

                Which Russia is preventing by kidnapping them.

                • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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                  5 months ago

                  We’re talking about war orphans. Generally, their family is either dead or can’t be located.

                  • tres_cool@lemmy.today
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                    5 months ago

                    Most people have extended families, that could be located if someone tried. But I think you knew that.

          • jumjummy@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            What a moronic take. Those Russian must be saints taking those poor Ukrainian children after, you know, illegally invading their country, killing their parents, and destroying their cities.

            • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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              5 months ago

              I never called them saints, I only said that transporting war orphans into safety is not genocide.

                • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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                  5 months ago

                  Being a tankie is when you consider children being adopted to parents who raise them in a safe environment “safety,” in comparison to living in a war zone.

          • AbsentBird@lemm.ee
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            5 months ago

            I can think of one country first in line to take them: Ukraine, or Ukrainian refugees sheltering in NATO countries. Wtf kind of fascist take are you spewing? 'Someone has to save these kids from the warzone we created; can’t just give them to their extended families, those are the enemy, guess we have no choice but to do genocide '. Get the fuck out of here.

            • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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              5 months ago

              We’re talking about war orphans, children whose families cannot be located.

              • AbsentBird@lemm.ee
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                5 months ago

                Did they try locating the extended families, or did they just abduct thousands of children to be raised as Russians? That’s a rhetorical question, they did the latter.

                • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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                  5 months ago

                  War orphans are not a new thing. Every war that’s ever been caught has produced children who’s families cannot be found, because wars are chaotic and also deadly.

                  • AbsentBird@lemm.ee
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                    5 months ago

                    Oh yeah, like how during the Iraq war when the US abducted all those Iraqi children and gave them to American families? Or when France stole all those orphans from central Africa to raise as little French kids? Or when the Canadian adoption system was flush with Afghani children they took away from their families and homeland?

                    Pretty sure abducting children after killing their parents has always been wrong.

          • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            So if Israel took every Palestinian child they saw, regardless of what family they have, and brought them to Israel for an Israeli family to raise, you’d be fine with that?

            • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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              5 months ago

              So if Israel took every Palestinian child they saw, regardless of what family they have

              Russia is not doing this. We’re talking about war orphans.

                • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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                  5 months ago

                  I’d be better than the current situation, yes. It’s by no means ideal, but Palestinian children would be better off being adopted by Israeli families than starving to death or being bombed or shot. My problem is with them putting them in the situation in the first place.

                  • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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                    5 months ago

                    I mean, it’s hard to argue with that. It would still be genocide, but at least kids wouldn’t be dying.

                    God. It’s fucked up.

      • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        “The news is so focused on children trapped in a war zone but they’re ignoring the real issue we should be focusing on: children being safely transported out of a war zone.”

        Jesus fucking Christ. Imagine being so pro-genocide you make apologia for kidnapping literal children and ethnic cleansing.

        • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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          5 months ago

          What I’m learning from this is that libs are perfectly fine with children being left to die in an active war zone and are actively opposed to getting them to safety.