• volodya_ilich@lemm.ee
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    3 months ago

    LOL it’s not because that’s how concepts work.

    You can tell that to yourself, it’s the core of what you meant, regardless of whether you want to use the specific word “utopia” or just talk about “ideal societies that won’t take place”. I’m not here to argue semantics.

    What revolution?

    Whichever comes. Revolutions take place periodically in different countries. French revolution, October revolution, revolutionary struggles against colonialism… All of those were revolutions, i.e. events in history with rapid radical changes in the form of governance and organisation of a system, possibly with a change in the classes of society.

    What’s the Marxist plan for preventing the people who take power from becoming the new exploiters? How do Marxists propose to overcome the fact that power corrupts?

    The solution is being as democratic as possible. Establishing grassroots, dual power structures early and way before the revolutions. Strong unions, neighborhood associations, social rights movements like current feminist organizations… All of those linked and in collaboration with each other and with a vanguard party of Marxist intellectuals who guide these collectives and vice-versa.

    • rah
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      3 months ago

      it’s the core of what you meant

      “ideal societies that won’t take place”

      That’s not what I meant though. You can’t even listen when someone tells you you’re not listening.

      being as democratic as possible

      LOL so no solution in fact, just hope that things might turn out better. Selling a better future. Like a religion. It all makes sense now. Best of luck.

      • volodya_ilich@lemm.ee
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        3 months ago

        !LOL so no solution in fact

        Not if you choose to ignore everything else I said after that. But that’s just you wanting to argue in bad faith

        • rah
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          3 months ago

          Nothing you said after that prevents corruption. You haven’t offered a solution, you’ve just offered a hope.

          • volodya_ilich@lemm.ee
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            3 months ago

            That’s just, like, your opinion, dude. Anarcho-syndicalism doesn’t logically eliminate corruption either, no system does

            • rah
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              3 months ago

              no system does

              Exactly. Socialism brings no solution to the table. To think, all this time Marx was just faffing about the difference between being stabbed with a six inch knife and a twelve inch knife. What a palaver.

              • volodya_ilich@lemm.ee
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                3 months ago

                Marx’s point wasn’t the complete elimination of corruption, but the elimination of the exploitation of the working class by the owning class. This has historically happened in several countries and can (and will) happen again.

                • rah
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                  3 months ago

                  the elimination of the exploitation of the working class by the owning class

                  But not the elimination of exploitation. In which case: meh.

                  • volodya_ilich@lemm.ee
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                    3 months ago

                    But not the elimination of exploitation

                    There’s no surplus labour extraction, hence no exploitation