okay but define ‘left’. im not asking why worker co ops are left. I’m asking what ‘left’ is.
what is ‘moderate’ here? and why is it called that?
I said the word moderate was being abused. and I think that was a reply elsewhere, but I could be wrong.
political spectrum. what political spectrum? what are the axes here? what are the variables that define this supposed spectrum?
I got it from the things you said.
I… seem to think the democratic party in the US is a democratic socialist party? you’re clearly thinking of someone else. I don’t know what the hell is going on here, but I think you might be confusing people in your head.
what is ‘centrism’ and does it have any relationship to ‘leftism’?
You can’t just keep asking questions and avoiding answering mine, and I’m not exactly willing to describe “all of everything” to catch you up to speed. This conversation is getting rather tiring due to that, to be honest.
There are multiple ways to define the “left” and the spectrum itself, but the way I see it described most often is collective approach to the economics on the left, individual on the right, and measure of authoritarianism of the system in the vertical axis, usually with the top being authoritarian and bottom being libertarian. Due to that being the most common way to describe it I know of, it’s one I’m using. You’ve got ML folks in the top left corner, communo anarchists on the libertarian left corner, fascists in the top right corner and libertarian right in the bottom right corner. I’m waving to you from somewhere in the bottom left quadrant. The “Left” in this case typically includes support for social ownership, redistribution of wealth, public control over resources, and greater economic equality. Ideologies on this side often prioritize the welfare of the community or society as a whole over individual wealth accumulation. Policies may include progressive taxation, social safety nets, public healthcare, strong labor rights etc.
As for what moderate means, I’m using your definition from your first comment. Directly, since you’ve defined centrism by measurement of moderation and reasoned that democratic socialism is centrist instead of leftist due to it fitting that description. I’m not arguing against your definition of moderate politics, but it being a characterizing attribute of centrist political systems.
the intended changes are radical but good for everyone, and involve no sacrifice or tolerance for mess in getting there, slowly and conservatively enough that nobody’s too uncomfortable at any point except the people who were already DEEPLY uncomfortable and fucked by the current shape of things, not rocking the boat too much, etc.
that’s, like, the definition of moderate. it’s the psychology and strategy right wingers claim to have when they’re pretending to not just be evil monsters who get off on oppression, applied to ‘make the world better’. that’s almost the definition of centrist.
As for dems being democratic socialist, you’ve referenced Kamala Harris and her policy propositions, and I’m not sure why, so I explored the possibility of it being the point of our misunderstanding.
And finally, about what “centrism” is… Come on, man, I’ve described it like 4 times now. It’s time you pick up some weight here.
okay but define ‘left’. im not asking why worker co ops are left. I’m asking what ‘left’ is.
what is ‘moderate’ here? and why is it called that?
I said the word moderate was being abused. and I think that was a reply elsewhere, but I could be wrong.
political spectrum. what political spectrum? what are the axes here? what are the variables that define this supposed spectrum?
I got it from the things you said.
I… seem to think the democratic party in the US is a democratic socialist party? you’re clearly thinking of someone else. I don’t know what the hell is going on here, but I think you might be confusing people in your head.
what is ‘centrism’ and does it have any relationship to ‘leftism’?
You can’t just keep asking questions and avoiding answering mine, and I’m not exactly willing to describe “all of everything” to catch you up to speed. This conversation is getting rather tiring due to that, to be honest.
There are multiple ways to define the “left” and the spectrum itself, but the way I see it described most often is collective approach to the economics on the left, individual on the right, and measure of authoritarianism of the system in the vertical axis, usually with the top being authoritarian and bottom being libertarian. Due to that being the most common way to describe it I know of, it’s one I’m using. You’ve got ML folks in the top left corner, communo anarchists on the libertarian left corner, fascists in the top right corner and libertarian right in the bottom right corner. I’m waving to you from somewhere in the bottom left quadrant. The “Left” in this case typically includes support for social ownership, redistribution of wealth, public control over resources, and greater economic equality. Ideologies on this side often prioritize the welfare of the community or society as a whole over individual wealth accumulation. Policies may include progressive taxation, social safety nets, public healthcare, strong labor rights etc.
As for what moderate means, I’m using your definition from your first comment. Directly, since you’ve defined centrism by measurement of moderation and reasoned that democratic socialism is centrist instead of leftist due to it fitting that description. I’m not arguing against your definition of moderate politics, but it being a characterizing attribute of centrist political systems.
As for dems being democratic socialist, you’ve referenced Kamala Harris and her policy propositions, and I’m not sure why, so I explored the possibility of it being the point of our misunderstanding.
And finally, about what “centrism” is… Come on, man, I’ve described it like 4 times now. It’s time you pick up some weight here.
but you haven’t. you haven’t described anything, you’ve just kind of gestured at a description
and I definitely didn’t call harris socialist, im not a fan of her policies, and I have a particular special personal hatred of that piece of shit.