Absolutely. On both count. Fuck Trump, and some conservatives do have good point that deserve to be heard and discussed. That was the point i was making, I don<t know Jill Stein, and whether she a plant or not. Her supporter still have good points. Dunking on her doesn’t change the fact they re pissed for good reasons.
You’re not meeting resistance from folks (likely more into politics or for longer) because we disagree with what she or her supporters have said or the policies they support. You’re getting resistance and downright vitriol because of the context surrounding her and her campaign
There’s a lot of info to disseminate, so instead I’ll inspire you to look into the history of Americans political parties, the history of third parties and their presidential candidates, and the spoiler effect in a 2 party system (and it’s impact on US history as a bonus)
I think AOC made a really good point recently about her (you can look it up, or let me know and I can help). She said it’s curious how Jill Stein, and many other oddball candidates (for lack of a better word), just pop up every four years seeking support for their campaign. She then said it goes from seeming authentic to predatory because they’re not actually doing anything the rest of the time to start a movement for their party.
I couldn’t have ever said it better. The reason I was upset when Yang ran wasn’t because of his policy proposals, it’s because he has no experience, anyone paying attention knew he had no chance, and he was making a mockery of the entire thing by simply being there. I might’ve digressed too far there, but the point is without real plans to win, it’s just influencer shit and scamming people out of their money, at best, and straight up evil political deception on a massive scale for personal gain, at worst
Not too long and it definitely make sense, actually the only good one yet. So I will also make a lengthy response, not to convince, just enjoying the discussion.
About resistance, I think its normal, and the reason why echo chambers exist, It s comfortable. The vitriol is just useless noise.
I am not from USA, and watch the situation as an outsider, has its pro and con. I don’t get to see all the intricacies, but I do have a good view of the big picture.
The two party system. To me that is a myth, or rather a self fulfilling prophecy or societal ruts . It is not in the constitution or laws that there should be only two parties. Its a very damageable system that is held up by the two parties. Independent candidates don’t get that much hate because they don’t threaten the status-quo. It would be in the best interest of all, left and right to break that status-quo. Calling third party votes as wasted is ignoring politic mechanics. The big party call those wasted because they don’t want to lean far enough to actually get those votes being, scared to lose more from the other side.
AOC talking about Jill Stein, I haven’t watched, just got the jist of it from the headlines, and comments on the posts. That is why I started with, I don’t know if she is honest or not. AOC is a credible politician, does she have a legitimate concern ? Probably. Is she doing a hit job due to the two party system? Also possible. Probably a bit of both, they need all the votes they can get. Now, the interview I linked to, does include Mme Stein, but I was bringing attention the the other people in the report. Why are they not satisfied with the democrats proposal?
I have no clue who Yang is or what he ran for. I will refrain from checking it out, so here are some platitudes from an outside perspective;
Being upset that someone runs for an elected position not because of his policy proposal. : you should advocate for numerous candidates, you might finally go from illusion to actually having choices.
He has no experience, he had no chance: Runners rarely win their first marathon, it should not stop them from joining. It keeps the experienced runners from taking a nap.
he was making a mockery of the entire thing by simply being there. : That must be the least offensive way the entire thing has been made a mockery of in the last decade.
without real plans to win, it’s just influencer shit and scamming people out of their money, at best,: Depend on your actual goal, sometimes you win, not by being elected, but just shake things up, clear the stale air.
and straight up evil political deception on a massive scale for personal gain, at worst: Yes that is a possibility, bu it also apply to those with an actual plan to win.
I am not sure i managed to put it down right, but replying to you had me think on all of this as well. So thank for the opportunity, no matter if you agree or not, hope you also get something out of it.
There are efforts on pushing RCV or similar on a state by state basis, and there has been some success, I think they’re up to 10 maybe 15 states so far including red Alaska lol
But the tankies/Russian bots/right wing trolls/whatever never bring those efforts up, the very efforts that would actually lead to breaking the 2 party system for once
Conservatives also have really good points.
You can still say Fuck Trump.
Like what? Or rather, do they pair it with “solutions” besides fascism?
Ehhhh… Such as…?
Absolutely. On both count. Fuck Trump, and some conservatives do have good point that deserve to be heard and discussed. That was the point i was making, I don<t know Jill Stein, and whether she a plant or not. Her supporter still have good points. Dunking on her doesn’t change the fact they re pissed for good reasons.
You’re not meeting resistance from folks (likely more into politics or for longer) because we disagree with what she or her supporters have said or the policies they support. You’re getting resistance and downright vitriol because of the context surrounding her and her campaign
There’s a lot of info to disseminate, so instead I’ll inspire you to look into the history of Americans political parties, the history of third parties and their presidential candidates, and the spoiler effect in a 2 party system (and it’s impact on US history as a bonus)
I think AOC made a really good point recently about her (you can look it up, or let me know and I can help). She said it’s curious how Jill Stein, and many other oddball candidates (for lack of a better word), just pop up every four years seeking support for their campaign. She then said it goes from seeming authentic to predatory because they’re not actually doing anything the rest of the time to start a movement for their party.
I couldn’t have ever said it better. The reason I was upset when Yang ran wasn’t because of his policy proposals, it’s because he has no experience, anyone paying attention knew he had no chance, and he was making a mockery of the entire thing by simply being there. I might’ve digressed too far there, but the point is without real plans to win, it’s just influencer shit and scamming people out of their money, at best, and straight up evil political deception on a massive scale for personal gain, at worst
Sorry, if that was too long. Hope it made sense
Not too long and it definitely make sense, actually the only good one yet. So I will also make a lengthy response, not to convince, just enjoying the discussion.
About resistance, I think its normal, and the reason why echo chambers exist, It s comfortable. The vitriol is just useless noise.
I am not from USA, and watch the situation as an outsider, has its pro and con. I don’t get to see all the intricacies, but I do have a good view of the big picture.
The two party system. To me that is a myth, or rather a self fulfilling prophecy or societal ruts . It is not in the constitution or laws that there should be only two parties. Its a very damageable system that is held up by the two parties. Independent candidates don’t get that much hate because they don’t threaten the status-quo. It would be in the best interest of all, left and right to break that status-quo. Calling third party votes as wasted is ignoring politic mechanics. The big party call those wasted because they don’t want to lean far enough to actually get those votes being, scared to lose more from the other side.
AOC talking about Jill Stein, I haven’t watched, just got the jist of it from the headlines, and comments on the posts. That is why I started with, I don’t know if she is honest or not. AOC is a credible politician, does she have a legitimate concern ? Probably. Is she doing a hit job due to the two party system? Also possible. Probably a bit of both, they need all the votes they can get. Now, the interview I linked to, does include Mme Stein, but I was bringing attention the the other people in the report. Why are they not satisfied with the democrats proposal?
I have no clue who Yang is or what he ran for. I will refrain from checking it out, so here are some platitudes from an outside perspective;
Being upset that someone runs for an elected position not because of his policy proposal. : you should advocate for numerous candidates, you might finally go from illusion to actually having choices.
He has no experience, he had no chance: Runners rarely win their first marathon, it should not stop them from joining. It keeps the experienced runners from taking a nap.
he was making a mockery of the entire thing by simply being there. : That must be the least offensive way the entire thing has been made a mockery of in the last decade.
without real plans to win, it’s just influencer shit and scamming people out of their money, at best,: Depend on your actual goal, sometimes you win, not by being elected, but just shake things up, clear the stale air.
and straight up evil political deception on a massive scale for personal gain, at worst: Yes that is a possibility, bu it also apply to those with an actual plan to win.
I am not sure i managed to put it down right, but replying to you had me think on all of this as well. So thank for the opportunity, no matter if you agree or not, hope you also get something out of it.
Have a good one
Which is irrelevant. Only R or D can win. Any vote that isn’t one of those is mathematically equivalent to a vote for whichever you hate more.
Therefore, her supporters are either disingenuous plants, or people who’s can’t be bothered to understand how elections work.
The US really needs a preferential voting system, or some other solution that doesn’t lock it into a shitty 2-party hegemony
There are efforts on pushing RCV or similar on a state by state basis, and there has been some success, I think they’re up to 10 maybe 15 states so far including red Alaska lol
But the tankies/Russian bots/right wing trolls/whatever never bring those efforts up, the very efforts that would actually lead to breaking the 2 party system for once
Has Stein ever said anything about it? That would be telling (more if she hadn’t than if she had, I guess)
Lol, what do you think?