It took me ages to realise this. People with ADHD are always portrayed as lazy but they don’t struggle with hard work, they struggle with boring work. Before I knew I had ADHD I always found I was getting in trouble for not finishing boring work so I always used to prioritise tasks by how much fun they were and start with the most boring. I just ended up getting nothing done.
Then they also get mad when you find an easier way to accomplish the same thing in a fraction of the time or even automating it.
This reminds me of a punishment homework thing I was given in my youth, I had to write out something a bunch of times, which was a shit punishment to begin with and only happened once in like, grade 3 or something. Maybe even grade 1 when we were learning to write, idk. Maybe it wasn’t a punishment (it felt like one).
Instead of writing the letter “i” at the start of every line like I was supposed to, I just put a long line down the page to be that letter on every line.
The only part of this that I remember to this day is that I got it back with that line circled in red and the word “lazy!” Written next to it, with points off of the assignment for it.
That’s literally the only thing I recall about it, that finding an “easy” way to write the same letter across multiple lines was lazy, therefore I’m lazy and worthless. I don’t even remember if I passed or failed it, because that was less important to my young mind than being called lazy for simply trying to optimize my working time.
I dunno, but at this point I kind feel like that teacher was a bit of an asshole.
You gotta try to make a perfectly spaced dashed line down the page, as fast as you can. It’s a bit of a challenge and get all the I’s out of the way. Then the teacher can’t say boo.
This applies so hard to programmers, as well. I love making things automated, but I never have the time to make them properly.
Come join us on the QA side! I’m an automation developer, so it’s my job to make things automated :)
Hahaha! I’m a full stack… I’m supposed to do both. Lol. I need more automation…!!!
Hello, me!
Why hello there, me! Have a great day. ;)
“Why didn’t you show your work, so I can see how you think?”
Because I did it in my head and got the right answer. This isn’t about you.
Ok but forcing me to show my work was one of those things I hated until I was extremely grateful for it. I didn’t need to show my work to prove my answer was correct in elementary school, but it was a slow drift from “I can do it in my head with ease” to “I need to document my steps so I can check where the error occurred”. Also “it’s not enough to be correct, you need to be correct with evidence” is the reality for people who do math for a living
The “show your work” is about checking if you understand the logic in getting the answer. We had lots of questions out of 5. Right answer was only worth 1 mark, the other 4 were the steps and reasoning. This type of setup punishes those that skip right to the answer, or have memorized answers. But rewards those that show they know the concepts
What part of what you said changes what I said?
That you need to show your work, so they can test if they taught you the principles.
If I arrive at the correct answer every single time then I clearly understand the principles.
Maybe you do, but some arrive at the answer using the wrong techniwue that doesnt work when the equation is altered. There is no way you are doing calculus and functions and relations in your head. Process and method is the important part.
Right, so nothing.
My brain didn’t go through the steps like that. It looked at the problem and found the answer.
It’s why they thought I was cheating: my scantron results were above 90% correct, and the written portion was scored abysmally for lack of work.
That’s a failure of Test Design, not of student ability.
I think you are nissing the point about the goal of schooling, it is not to get correct answers but to teach people methods of problem solving, so when faced with a brand new problem you can extrapolate methods and find a solution. As acedemia progresses solutions are not possible in your head, so applying principles is the goal.
It doesn’t matter if you use mental math or not, you just need to write what you did in your head on the paper.
I had the exact same problem.
I was always a space cadet in class, falling behind, but accelled in testing, add on top that I sucked at showing my work, and my teacher was adamant that I must be cheating somehow.
Literally every single damn math class I ever took
I had to retake an algebra 2 exam multiple times because they thought I was cheating- including sitting IN the principal’s office, yet the scores were all within points of each other.
They were so fucking salty about it too when there was no “gotcha.” I wish I could time travel back to advocate for myself, because I would have TORN THEM A NEW ONE. My parents were apathetic cowards.
Like all cutting injustices, it’s stuck with me.
I would have sued them personally for defamation just under the small claims court amount ($10k) with a jury demand. Small claims cases in my state cannot be dismissed for cause of action. They could ask for a summary judgement, but that would still cost more in attorneys fees than just settling.
That’s probably what better parents might have done. Mine did nothing.
Of course, to bring it up now is only to be met with a constant stream of, “I don’t remember that.”
The tree remembers what the axe forgets.
I deconstructed the underlying methodology of the creator of the system in order to understand their internalized blind spots or artificial limitations imposed on them by unrelated third parties at the time of the systems creation.
Add the extra layer of my mother not appreciating my interests and thinking what I now do for a living was a waste of time… And a dash of expecting me to somehow just be able to perfectly do chores they never taught me how to do when I was young. Yes, this is the first time I’ve ever mopped a floor at 17 years old. How the fuck is that my fault?
As a child of Baby Boomers, they really never wanted an answer - they just wanted to complain about something. And they probably never wanted to be parents in the first place.
God, it sucks to be a child of parents that never wanted children
Like I get that it was the social expectation but c’mon, what the hell, you brought me into existence, and for what?
This so much.
Keep it up with these posts, if I share enough of them with my clearly very painfully obviously super adhd girlfriend I might eventually convince her to go see a therapist and seek a diagnosis someday
Call her doctor, make an appointment, save it in her calendar, remind her in the lead up, drive her there, get the referral. Walk her to the post box to send it off, sit next to her to phone the intake office to confirm they got the referral, set appointments on her phone for every 6 months to sit with her and call to check the cancellation list until you get an appointment. Drive her to that appointment.
If she has ADHD, the steps involved in getting a diagnosis are bigger than Mt Everest, she will need a neurotypical Sherpa.
Oh I fully plan to, I’m not super neurotypical myself but I manage fine. There’s extenuating circumstances involving family insurance that means she probably can’t do it for another year or so but once that’s over I’m gonna drag her to all of that stuff.
I hope she does. I don’t think I’m ADHD but my partner was just diagnosed a few months ago. Now that we think about it it’s not a surprise at all lol
It feels really nice to have more understanding and more context for both of us.
I think it will help too. She resists by saying “well what will it really change?” but it can and will change quite a lot if she understands how her brain works and can build some support structures to help with it. She really doesn’t want to be medicated either which I totally get.
Totally agree, and get that. I wouldn’t want medication necessarily either. You don’t have to medicate at all! In fact maybe just knowing and working with it would be a good first test.
I did the opposite for the last part. I just went the “lazy” path of just doing hard things. As they were easy for me and rewarded more. If the hard things were rewarded less, why bother in the first place?
So I got based by teachers as “not precise enough” because they could clearly see I totally understood what the exercise wanted me to do, I just didn’t do “the easy part” of writing it properly.
I don’t have a diagnosis yet but this is extremely relatable to me and I hope it gets better when I get one
The only thing a diagnosis changes is external proof that you have ADHD. If that will help you then yes it will get better.
Personally I stopped taking ADHD meds. They changed me into a different person and I’d rather learn to live with myself.
I think it would help me feel more sure because I have some absolute proof that I’m making all of this up, although I have heard some people saying that they still have imposter sydrome. Also I hope that meds help me stay focused without tooo many side effects
I hope so too!
I got diagnosed a year ago lmao
Did it get better or just the same shit as before
On ritalin (adrerall is not allowed here) yeah it goes away.
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There are lots of boring un stimulating tasks that are super important that’s the issue. I have adhd and I cope with my issues to be able to be a functional adult. Things like the dishes and the laundry and cleaning need to be done. Some task that seem repetitive for forcing a basic understanding of the subject. I’ve met so many people in my field who are adhd and say they are super productive on complex tasks but lack basic understanding on fundamental subjects in the field because they skip all the “boring stuff”. Life is not always exciting or stimulating sometimes you have to force yourself to do something. Neurotypicals do the same thing.
The difference with ADHD, especially untreated ADHD, and the idea of “sometimes you have to force yourself to do something” is that, as a person with ADHD, trying to force myself to do stuff, without the assistance of medication, can often be a bit like trying to nail jello to the wall.
It might work for a short time, but eventually, it’ll be laying on the floor, not doing what you want it to do… Much like me.
The paralysis is very real and very strong. The contrary feelings fighting eachother in your head, one voice saying how important it is and that you need to do it, another that’s breaking down the task into every motion required, so one job becomes a quintillion individual steps, which makes you feel overwhelmed and anxious at even the thought of trying to do the job, and another voice berating you for being a lazy fuck who can’t even do the most simple shit, like get off the couch and do the thing.
In the end you just feel horrible, both about the thing you should have done and about your worth as a person, leading to depression, which exacerbates the issue further.
It’s a cycle of violence that most ADHD people have suffered with for their entire life.
I don’t know if it’s harder to force ourselves to do the “boring stuff” more than neurotypicals, but I know the main reason I do the things I do is “because someone has to do it.” Kind of a sucky reason to do anything, but it at least helps me get through some of the everyday tasks, even if not completely. Everyone has to find their own way to cope, doesn’t matter if we have ADHD or something “wrong” with us or not. One thing to keep in mind is an imperfect something is better than a perfect nothing
Exactly, personally I use the mantra “do what must be done” and try to make it feel inevitable
I’m getting a sort of buffer underrun when doing routine so I’ll always try and make trivial tasks or busywork faster, more efficient, or superfluous through process design. When I cannot do that, I’ll listen to music or podcasts, that helps somewhat.
The main drawback of this condition is that many employers think I simply “like to work” and bury me in even more busywork.The reward for being good at toil is more toil.
Signed,
The guy who was good at streamlining and ended up with 3-4 different jobs but only one salary
It’s actually the normies who can’t even do laundry without a little neurotransmitter bottle from mommy frontal cortex. We fight demons every day.
I feel fucking seen by this post
It rings right to my core
For fucking real. Same deal with autism for me.
What hurts is guessing wrong what people around you care about and then realizing that what they care about is the thing you cared about before you realized that they actually just didn’t understand what you were actually worried about. It starts to feel like the matrix but you aren’t NEO you’re just the cat.
having grown up with ADD and ADHD being huge in schools and then reading countless studies over the past few decades about how inaccurate diagnoses and the understanding of ADD and ADHD are, I will be very cautious in administering any medication to my children for popular syndromes.
I grew up in such times, myself. I was diagnosed as likely ADHD as a child but never treated because of a mix of stigma and my parents taking that exact reasoning. This led to a childhood of anxiety, academic issues, depression, social awkwardness, and struggling in university, despite having no problems understanding the coursework. As an adult, it caused problems in work and relationships.
I received a diagnosis of “minor adult ADHD” about 5 years ago and received treatment for the first time in my life, which has been life-changing.
My point is: don’t underestimate the impact and trauma caused by living in this society without help to compensate for the challenges that neurodivergent brains have to deal with.
yep, exactly.
for those whom treatment is necessary, safe, effective, and desired, treatment should be available.
neurodivergence, adhd included, is actually widely underdiagnosed - some doctors estimate 1 in 5 people is neurodivergent. And those rates have been rising (though possibly because of increased acceptance)
Turns out it was a small sect known as the “Morning People” oppressing everyone for millennia.
I recently read an article about a doctor who was making a case that the issue is not that those 1 in 5 are “neurodivergent”, but our current society is causing harm. When he sees ADHD symptoms his first “treatments” are proper nutrition, making sure they feel like they’re doing meaningful things in life, enough exercise, etc…
I’m also sometimes starting to wonder if for a part we’re not just medicating people to “thrive” in a society that’s inhuman, rather than make society work for as many people as possible.
But it’s of course a very complex & grey area, and let’s be honest, something as vague as ADHD probably encompasses a lot of different causes. And it’ll probably take decades of research before we actually manage to split up all the things that are today lumped together into the separate things with each their own propert treatment.
What are you talking about, spending 8 hours a day in a chair staring into a light-up rectangle and getting yelled at over the phone is the natural human state, and anyone who can’t force themselves to do so has something wrong with them.
Seriously, though, the problem is real. A psychologist can be fully aware the patient has anxiety about paying rent because they can’t make rent, but the only tool available to help them in a professional capacity is treating the anxiety. Same goes for depression and the rest. Hell, thinking about it now, same would have been true of drapetomania.
right, and with that sort of prevalence, and so little detrimental effects to society, there isn’t good enough evidence for advocating “treatment” of most people who just think differently than other people.
largely, they notice or pay attention to different things, so “treatments” are unnecessary, obtrusive or damaging.
exception given to extreme cases, “treating” ADHD seems a lot like removing funding for arts courses because school administrators don’t value the arts.
Hi. I failed out of college, in no small part due to undiagnosed ADHD. I wanna offer a little pushback.
I can’t tell if you want to change society to be less punishing to neurodivergent people, or if your whole thesis is “People with ADHD have little to no trouble in society today”.
If it’s the former: not treating people who are struggling is not the way to change society. Accepting for the sake of argument that ADHD people “pay attention to different things”; paying attention to some things is critical to my ability to thrive. I would love to live in a world where I could just do what I thought was important and still have my needs taken care of, but unfortunately I’m stuck needing to pay attention to stupid bullshit I don’t care about in order to make a living, and that’s a tremendous struggle without medication.
If it’s the latter: Jesus Christ, talk to someone with ADHD.
And finally: I take issue with your metaphor at the end. What do you think is present in an unmedicated person with ADHD that is somehow missing in a medicated person?
“less punishing to neurodivergent people”
I mostly agree with this.
“People with ADHD have little to no trouble in society today”
i disagree, that is antithetical to my previous comment.
that said, neurotypical or divergent, if you don’t have trouble in society today, I want to know more about your society.
“not treating people who are struggling is not the way to change society”
yes, and neither is treating people who don’t wish to be treated or are treated unnecessarily.
are you sure you’re responding to the right comment? I haven’t said many of the things you are arguing against so far.
“and that’s a tremendous struggle without medication”
then according to my previous comment, you are one of the extreme cases that need and want intervention, and should receive it.
“I take issue with your metaphor at the end”
I gather from your preceding assumptions and arguments against things that I have not said, along with your general combative tone, that you have been quixoticaly swept up in an imagined narrative that you feel you must do battle with.
“What do you think is present in an unmedicated person with ADHD that is somehow missing in a medicated person?”
missing? nothing.
Combative? Take a look in the mirror pal.
I guess I’m ultimately confused about what you’re arguing for. My ADHD is by no means “extreme”; trouble focusing at work or school is one of the baseline things you’re unlikely to get diagnosed without. I can’t imagine any reasonable person advocating for medicating people who don’t stand to benefit from it, which seems to be the motte to your bailey.
“Combative?”
yup.
“Take a look in the mirror pal.”
thank you! that was a nice break.
“I guess I’m ultimately confused about what you’re arguing for.”
I would suggest asking the source for clarification or further information rather than misattributing assumptions and then arguing against those assumptions, none of which are present in the comment you are confused by and subsequently railing against.
“I can’t imagine any reasonable person advocating for medicating people who don’t stand to benefit from it”
tolerant place you’re from.
“seems to be the motte to your baile”
how so?
My original comment isn’t controversial and I didn’t switch positions either.
is this a gaslighting attempt?
are you lighting my gas?
A… Are you a neurotypical telling us what is good for us…? Wow
Oh yeah, light that gas daddy.
we don’t give a shit what “detriment to society” adhd is. Executive dysfunction is detrimental to the quality of life, and that’s one symptom amongst many
the society was built for neurotypical people, and so neurodiverse people need help to function in it in a way that doesn’t make them feel worthless - and that means treatment, be it with therapy and/or meds
“Executive dysfunction is detrimental to the quality of life”
stroof.
“neurodiverse people need help to function in it in a way that doesn’t make them feel worthless”
some neurodiverse people do, but your reasoning implies that neurotypical people do not feel worthless in today’s society.
that’s a take that won’t stand up to much scrutiny.
“…treatment, be it with therapy and/or meds”
apparently we’re in agreement.
treatment, when necessary, effective, and desired, should be available.
