[29] “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, [30] saying, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ [31] Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. [32] Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. [33] You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?
Matthew 25:41-46 ESV
[41] “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. [42] For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, [43] I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ [44] Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ [45] Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ [46] And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Revelation 20:12-15 ESV
[12] And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. [13] And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. [14] Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. [15] And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Seems pretty clear, although you have to join the dots between verses to get the full thing. I have looked into other religions and Christianity seems the most probable by a mile.
Those are good examples from the ESV which I haven’t read. Have you considered the difficulty of translation from Aramaic to Greek to Latin to English? The church I belonged to as a child handwaved this away as all the translators were divinely guided to preserve the meaning of god’s word.
That seems improbable at best and honestly silly in general. My church followed the King James translation which has so many problems. Was ESV created to be an easier read of King James or did it go back to an earlier source?
I have no doubt in my mind that the god of the Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) must be a tremendous asshole. If he exists, then I want nothing to do with him. All the depictions of heaven I’ve been offered are endlessly praising this god while basking in his glory. Sounds like shit to me. Why would a god who created humans need them to worship him? I find the idea perverse and disgusting.
Finally I’ll mention the council of Nicea, the council of Rome, and the council of Florence in determining the Christian canon. There were many writings about Jesus from roughly 300AD and they had to decide which to keep and which to toss. Were they guided by god in this? In the curated canon these councils produced, god promised not to directly meddle in the affairs of humans in the new testament, until judgement day. So if he guided these translations and councils was he not a liar?
I am very curious by what metrics you have found Christianity to be the most probable of all the supernatural explanations of worldly and otherworldly history and current events.
The ESV is translated from Hebrew and Koine Greek. Not from Latin. The KJV was pretty good for it’s time IMO, but there are copyist errors and mistakes which the ESV resolves. I’d never claim the KJV is divinely inspired.
Heaven does have an existence. We’re given new bodies. If it was simply a big church service, we wouldn’t need physical bodies. I think Heaven would allow activities. Worshipping God isn’t just singing to Him. You can also worship Him in working as well.
The council of Nicea had absolutely nothing to do with the Biblical Canon. It was dealing with the Arian Heresy. The council of Florence was dealing with Papal supremacy. Not the Biblical canon. The Biblical Canon is simply the writings of Jesus’ Apostles and the Gospels, with the existing scripture that Jesus used. The councils weren’t necessarily divinely inspired, but they refuted and concisely defined core aspects of what the New Testament says, and expelling clear heresies that contradict it (like trinity denial, resurrection denial, etc).
Christianity holds the most reliable accounts and following of Jesus. Jesus appears in other religions, but not in the way He does in Christianity.
For example, Islam: Jesus is apparently a non divine prophet. The Qur’an also claims that it’s in agreement with the Bible when it clearly contradicts it. The Islamic belief in Jesus is based on the writings of a single dude 600 years after Christianity existed.
In Judaism, Jesus is just a sorcerer who somehow didn’t fulfill the prophecies enough.
In Hinduism, Jesus is just seen as another god. But Jesus didn’t claim to be that, He claimed to be “The Way” (John 14:6)
Buddhism claims Jesus was a Bodhisvatta. But He claimed to be God Himself (John 10:30)
So let’s look at history. Nobody can deny Jesus existed. So either He was a liar, or God himself. However, His purported resurrection was witnessed by several people, most of which who died on that fact, and the followers of Him ballooned despite being persecuted. Christianity offered no advantage to anyone who adopted it in the first and second century. People were told to resist a lot of carnal desires and hundreds if not thousands ended up being martyred. People weren’t extorted for money or control either. Unlike other religions which may offer multiple wives, power or godhood, for example.
Basically, in short, dude appeared in 1st century, claimed to be God, was seen doing miracles and was crucified. Was seen risen from the dead. Those who saw that ended up dying on that hill to no gain of their own.
And this isn’t even taking into account mine and other people’s personal experiences (although I do agree that trying to justify something on personal experience alone isn’t very productive or convincing, or very provable), but my foundation is in this historical fact and it’s what brought me to Him.
Matthew 23:29-33 ESV
Matthew 25:41-46 ESV
Revelation 20:12-15 ESV
Seems pretty clear, although you have to join the dots between verses to get the full thing. I have looked into other religions and Christianity seems the most probable by a mile.
Those are good examples from the ESV which I haven’t read. Have you considered the difficulty of translation from Aramaic to Greek to Latin to English? The church I belonged to as a child handwaved this away as all the translators were divinely guided to preserve the meaning of god’s word.
That seems improbable at best and honestly silly in general. My church followed the King James translation which has so many problems. Was ESV created to be an easier read of King James or did it go back to an earlier source?
I have no doubt in my mind that the god of the Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) must be a tremendous asshole. If he exists, then I want nothing to do with him. All the depictions of heaven I’ve been offered are endlessly praising this god while basking in his glory. Sounds like shit to me. Why would a god who created humans need them to worship him? I find the idea perverse and disgusting.
Finally I’ll mention the council of Nicea, the council of Rome, and the council of Florence in determining the Christian canon. There were many writings about Jesus from roughly 300AD and they had to decide which to keep and which to toss. Were they guided by god in this? In the curated canon these councils produced, god promised not to directly meddle in the affairs of humans in the new testament, until judgement day. So if he guided these translations and councils was he not a liar?
I am very curious by what metrics you have found Christianity to be the most probable of all the supernatural explanations of worldly and otherworldly history and current events.
The ESV is translated from Hebrew and Koine Greek. Not from Latin. The KJV was pretty good for it’s time IMO, but there are copyist errors and mistakes which the ESV resolves. I’d never claim the KJV is divinely inspired.
Heaven does have an existence. We’re given new bodies. If it was simply a big church service, we wouldn’t need physical bodies. I think Heaven would allow activities. Worshipping God isn’t just singing to Him. You can also worship Him in working as well.
The council of Nicea had absolutely nothing to do with the Biblical Canon. It was dealing with the Arian Heresy. The council of Florence was dealing with Papal supremacy. Not the Biblical canon. The Biblical Canon is simply the writings of Jesus’ Apostles and the Gospels, with the existing scripture that Jesus used. The councils weren’t necessarily divinely inspired, but they refuted and concisely defined core aspects of what the New Testament says, and expelling clear heresies that contradict it (like trinity denial, resurrection denial, etc).
Christianity holds the most reliable accounts and following of Jesus. Jesus appears in other religions, but not in the way He does in Christianity.
For example, Islam: Jesus is apparently a non divine prophet. The Qur’an also claims that it’s in agreement with the Bible when it clearly contradicts it. The Islamic belief in Jesus is based on the writings of a single dude 600 years after Christianity existed.
In Judaism, Jesus is just a sorcerer who somehow didn’t fulfill the prophecies enough.
In Hinduism, Jesus is just seen as another god. But Jesus didn’t claim to be that, He claimed to be “The Way” (John 14:6)
Buddhism claims Jesus was a Bodhisvatta. But He claimed to be God Himself (John 10:30)
So let’s look at history. Nobody can deny Jesus existed. So either He was a liar, or God himself. However, His purported resurrection was witnessed by several people, most of which who died on that fact, and the followers of Him ballooned despite being persecuted. Christianity offered no advantage to anyone who adopted it in the first and second century. People were told to resist a lot of carnal desires and hundreds if not thousands ended up being martyred. People weren’t extorted for money or control either. Unlike other religions which may offer multiple wives, power or godhood, for example.
Basically, in short, dude appeared in 1st century, claimed to be God, was seen doing miracles and was crucified. Was seen risen from the dead. Those who saw that ended up dying on that hill to no gain of their own.
And this isn’t even taking into account mine and other people’s personal experiences (although I do agree that trying to justify something on personal experience alone isn’t very productive or convincing, or very provable), but my foundation is in this historical fact and it’s what brought me to Him.