Sure, crazy video, but you don’t know whether his girlfriend wasn’t raped and killed by Hamas on October 7th last year. Don’t just judge people from bad times they’re having, as hard as that may seem.
When we talk about Palestinian violence we (rightly) put it in context of the oppression they suffered. You can’t expect an oppressed people to react kindly and patiently to their oppressors. But this guy apparently does not deserve this circumspect approach. We know nothing about him other than he is claimed to be an Israeli soldier but he might have any number of mental illnesses, PTSD, what have you. But we’re perfectly happy to label him a monster, no questions asked.
I’m not trying to justify any violent behavior obviously, but we sure do love putting the excesses of “our” side in broader context, and highlighting perceived injustices of “theirs” without context.
You’re saying that under no conditions whatsoever you would start shouting at people in public? That you would get violent to defend something that was important to you? Please don’t be an idiot.
People dont want to hate. But some want to walk about being violent.
How can you excuse his behavior? Make up a better reason than «his gf might be raped by some other dudes». Why is he kicking, head butting and trying to punch people? Lets see a few and do an occam’s razor on them.
Maybe there was a conversation where the UNICEF worker said: “let’s do a skit where you act like an animal and we film it because my parents have been kidnapped and are being held ransom under these demands” and the guy was like “no way I’m a nice guy” and the UNICEF worker pulled out a gun and said “I’m not asking” and the guy said “whoa man be cool fine I’ll do it”
Yes, this guy should be arrested before he hurts someone.
However comments on the thread are jumping way beyond the context given. We don’t know who instigated and how. We don’t know who has been the victim of violence. We don’t know what the connection to unicef is or even whether that’s relevant. And that’s taking everything at face value
The rape narrative has been massively overblown with little evidence backing it up besides racial bias against brown men. Did some women get sexualy assaulted, probably, was it widespread and systemic like the media is pushing, probably not. This isn’t to excuse the disgusting behavior of hamas on October 7th, just saying it’s more likely this guy sexualy assaulted Palestinians in an Israeli jail then his girlfriend being assaulted.
Just cause a member of a group did something bad to you doesn’t give you the right to abuse that group back. If that guy’s girlfriend was sexualy assaulted by a black person that doesn’t give him the right to yell slurs and push around black people on the street. This guy wasn’t yelling about hamas he was yelling at the idea of Palestine, that’s just straight up racism.
sure you also dont know whether the girlfriends/wives/children of the Hamas members weren’t shredded to pieces by Israeli bombs before they joined Hamas
So hypothetical raped & killed girlfriend by Hamas = has a right to shout at a volunteers for a UN charity organisation stopping kids from dieing of starvation and disease?
Be careful you don’t break your spine bending over that far backwards to excuse his behaviour.
Then unsubscribe and block this community. If you don’t like reading peoples commenting on a public freakout then… don’t read them?
Or is there something specific about this instance that’s triggering for you? Perhaps it’s just yet another comment you’re being instructed to leave by your boss or server.
Idk I’m just here for the freak-outs because people’s behaviour when irrational and angry is interesting to me.
Edit: also it’s not an explanation of the situation it’s your hypothesis you’re choosing to project onto this situation. Again who knows why you’re choosing to do that, only you I guess.
How can people judge you for your defense of him, let me explain it to you all, they might have deep seated fantasies of being trained by large groups of Israeli soldiers and for their fantasies to come true they need to go around justifying disgusting behavior. I’m not defending the guy explaining the disgusting actions just explaining how they could have a good reason to with a story I made up in my head.
A crazy fucking comment, right? Eh. I tried to make a point about not judging people before you know their history, but did so very badly, I guess. Should I delete the comment? What do you think?
No, don’t dirty delete just because you got downvotes. Instead open your mind to the replies and try to understand why you got so many (hint: It’s because you were trying to excuse a violent assault, by an obviously hateful person, using lies promoted by an army that’s currently committing genocide).
Hahaha no, you should let your comment stand. I did not try to excuse his actions, that guy was acting like an asshole, but I did want people not to judge someone - which, in a court of law, only happens after consideration of someone’s circumstances.
Hamas’ horrible and violent acts, however, are not lies promoted by any army. Does the Israeli army promote lies? Probably. But not that terrorist organizations are despicable, that doesn’t need to be lied about.
Sure, crazy video, but you don’t know whether his girlfriend wasn’t raped and killed by Hamas on October 7th last year.
This is saying “hey don’t judge this guy attacking random unicef workers unconnected to the people he hates while spewing hate. He might be having a hard time”.
You display no empathy for the people experiencing this assault, only for its perpetrator. Your further opinions regarding genocide can be inferred from there.
Thing is, adults, like properly emotionally mature people, don’t attack random people on the street because they’re volunteering to raise funds for an absolutely gigantic organisation to help people. I used to work for a Croatian man and his brother in law. They fought in the Bosnian conflict, and both ended up working for a series of mercenary outfits after. The levels of PTSD in these guys was…honestly…kinda fucked. I worked with them for the better part of 10 years. Met as many of their families that survived. They were adult enough to hire a few Bosnian guys as subcontract, we’d go for drinks end of the week. And these Bosnian guys were in some of the same battles as my boss and his BiL, literally trying to kill each other. What the fuck did those UNICEF people do to fucknuts? Exist? Fuck him.
Yeah, but many were. Just like 60k Palestinians were killed. So many people are traumatized, what I am saying is exactly what you are: stop fabricating narratives from a few seconds of someone’s bad day. You know nothing.
I have worked jobs like that, collecting donations in the street. And would you believe it, a lot of the people working those jobs are assholes. Whatever went on between those people in the video, we don’t know.
Here he is, guys. Lol. What the fuck does a UNICEF worker have to do with Hamas? How is this normal behavior anywhere? That dude should be arrested. I’m guessing he’s more of the type of guy that spends bad times around. It may be the I’ll fuck you in the ass or the headbutt. Idk.
Look, I get it. I read through this thread, and I get the point you’re making, absolutely.
Always, always remember that we’re all human and prone to horrible errors of judgement. We don’t know the dude, we don’t know his story that led up to this.
What you seem to be missing is that a past trauma is no more or less likely than a neutral or positive past. None of those excuse assault and battery. You can absolutely judge a person based on their actions. We do it all the time in jury trials. Him having had some kind of suffering related to Palestine or Hamas wouldn’t mean he wasn’t guilty of assault and battery, though it might mitigate things for sentencing.
Would those UNICEF workers now be justified in going somewhere, screaming at some Israeli bank teller and head butting them? No. And I think you know that.
I applaud your compassion. We should always consider such things in forming opinions. We also do not have to forego judgement because of that compassion.
If that poster was being honest about it (a huge “if”) the most logical explanation for somebody empathising with the perpetrator of an assault but not with the victims is that they’re extremelly biased in a tribalist way and hence fully empathise with those of their tribe butnot at all with those a member of their tribe would be angry and violent against.
Or to put things in simpler terms: Nazis can really understand and share the anger that makes other Nazis be violent, never the point of view of the victims of the Nazis.
When seeing a situation like this a normal person tends to empathise with victims quite independently of who they are and not try and imagine reasons to excuse the violence of the bully.
It’s absolutely demonstrative of a bias and that’s confirmed by previous comments the poster has made. Throwaway references to how it’s bad that Palestinians are dying too don’t do a good enough job of masking it.
Sure, crazy video, but you don’t know whether his girlfriend wasn’t raped and killed by Hamas on October 7th last year. Don’t just judge people from bad times they’re having, as hard as that may seem.
If my girlfriend was raped and killed by hamas I still don’t think I’d support a genocide against the people who didn’t do it.
You literally should judge people from their bad times. That’s how you get the measure of a person, in how they act in the worst of times.
Also, if Hamas raped his partner does that mean you can just go and attack people working for unicef? WTF!!
Dude said he will fuck the UNICEF worker in the ass
Nah, nothing justifies just freaking out on random volunteer workers in public and assaulting them.
When we talk about Palestinian violence we (rightly) put it in context of the oppression they suffered. You can’t expect an oppressed people to react kindly and patiently to their oppressors. But this guy apparently does not deserve this circumspect approach. We know nothing about him other than he is claimed to be an Israeli soldier but he might have any number of mental illnesses, PTSD, what have you. But we’re perfectly happy to label him a monster, no questions asked.
I’m not trying to justify any violent behavior obviously, but we sure do love putting the excesses of “our” side in broader context, and highlighting perceived injustices of “theirs” without context.
Israeli soldiers are an oppressed class
This feels like a very lazy emotional response.
You’re saying that under no conditions whatsoever you would start shouting at people in public? That you would get violent to defend something that was important to you? Please don’t be an idiot.
Wtf does an innocent unicef worker have to do with hamas you crackhead?
You don’t know the UNICEF worker and you don’t know the soldier. You just saw a few seconds of video and know NOTHING about any of those people.
Everybody here is just seeing what they want to see. What I’m saying is, stop the hatred and the shaming and the online rage.
You don’t know them either, so why pick any side?
That’s what I’m saying, don’t pick sides here!
So stop defending the person who was headbutting people and threatening to “fuck you in the ass” to people who mentioned a country lmao.
It isn’t a hard line to draw you dimwit.
your arguments can apply to any situation and mean that nobody should ever be criticized for their behaviour.
Is that a useful way to look at the world?
No, which is why you only apply this apology to people you want to defend as a result of your bias
Its ok to beat people. You don’t know who they are so it’s ok.
Everybody here sees a very dumb comment made by you. Seems to be the consensus.
So head butting is ok??
No it’s not, but do you even know that is a soldier? This is just some online video, man. People just want to hate
People dont want to hate. But some want to walk about being violent. How can you excuse his behavior? Make up a better reason than «his gf might be raped by some other dudes». Why is he kicking, head butting and trying to punch people? Lets see a few and do an occam’s razor on them.
Maybe there was a conversation where the UNICEF worker said: “let’s do a skit where you act like an animal and we film it because my parents have been kidnapped and are being held ransom under these demands” and the guy was like “no way I’m a nice guy” and the UNICEF worker pulled out a gun and said “I’m not asking” and the guy said “whoa man be cool fine I’ll do it”
Then he started committing to the role so hard that he pulled the freudian slip and threatened to fuck the other UNICEF worker in the ass.
One must admire him not only for his willingness to help but for his dedication. Truly we were all wrong to assume the worst.
Soldier?
how do you know you’re on lemmy? Maybe this is a dream. Maybe you’re that soldier. Think before you speak
How do you even know you exist? How do I even know I exist?
What is existence?
I post, therefore I brb
Probably…
The only hateful person here is you, assuming a connection between random people in a video and hamas.
What we can objectively see in the video is an assault taking place.
Yes, this guy should be arrested before he hurts someone.
However comments on the thread are jumping way beyond the context given. We don’t know who instigated and how. We don’t know who has been the victim of violence. We don’t know what the connection to unicef is or even whether that’s relevant. And that’s taking everything at face value
I don’t see hatred in the comments but plenty in the video
I’m definitely judging a person that tries to trip and headbutt strangers on the street. That person is not okay to be in public.
Also, everyone let’s just ignore this genocide sympathizer. It’s probably a bot or a paid troll
The rape narrative has been massively overblown with little evidence backing it up besides racial bias against brown men. Did some women get sexualy assaulted, probably, was it widespread and systemic like the media is pushing, probably not. This isn’t to excuse the disgusting behavior of hamas on October 7th, just saying it’s more likely this guy sexualy assaulted Palestinians in an Israeli jail then his girlfriend being assaulted.
Just cause a member of a group did something bad to you doesn’t give you the right to abuse that group back. If that guy’s girlfriend was sexualy assaulted by a black person that doesn’t give him the right to yell slurs and push around black people on the street. This guy wasn’t yelling about hamas he was yelling at the idea of Palestine, that’s just straight up racism.
sure you also dont know whether the girlfriends/wives/children of the Hamas members weren’t shredded to pieces by Israeli bombs before they joined Hamas
So hypothetical raped & killed girlfriend by Hamas = has a right to shout at a volunteers for a UN charity organisation stopping kids from dieing of starvation and disease?
Be careful you don’t break your spine bending over that far backwards to excuse his behaviour.
It’s not about excusing, but explaining. None of you know what any of those people did or who they are. This is just an online pillory.
In these kinds of situations it’s important to remember Netenyahu’s razor. The most israeli-defending explanation is often the correct one
Judging by the guy screaming “Say Palestine one more time” for the entire video, I would assume they mentioned Palestine.
Then unsubscribe and block this community. If you don’t like reading peoples commenting on a public freakout then… don’t read them?
Or is there something specific about this instance that’s triggering for you? Perhaps it’s just yet another comment you’re being instructed to leave by your boss or server.
Idk I’m just here for the freak-outs because people’s behaviour when irrational and angry is interesting to me.
Edit: also it’s not an explanation of the situation it’s your hypothesis you’re choosing to project onto this situation. Again who knows why you’re choosing to do that, only you I guess.
Hey you don’t know any of the commenters either, for all you know we all could have family killed by the IDF.
How can people judge you for your defense of him, let me explain it to you all, they might have deep seated fantasies of being trained by large groups of Israeli soldiers and for their fantasies to come true they need to go around justifying disgusting behavior. I’m not defending the guy explaining the disgusting actions just explaining how they could have a good reason to with a story I made up in my head.
Your comment has 50% more downvotes than my post has upvotes. In some way that is impressive.
A crazy fucking comment, right? Eh. I tried to make a point about not judging people before you know their history, but did so very badly, I guess. Should I delete the comment? What do you think?
“don’t judge people just because they assault strangers in public” yeah okay
No, don’t dirty delete just because you got downvotes. Instead open your mind to the replies and try to understand why you got so many (hint: It’s because you were trying to excuse a violent assault, by an obviously hateful person, using lies promoted by an army that’s currently committing genocide).
Hahaha no, you should let your comment stand. I did not try to excuse his actions, that guy was acting like an asshole, but I did want people not to judge someone - which, in a court of law, only happens after consideration of someone’s circumstances.
Hamas’ horrible and violent acts, however, are not lies promoted by any army. Does the Israeli army promote lies? Probably. But not that terrorist organizations are despicable, that doesn’t need to be lied about.
Hamas is really forcing you to continue making an ass of yourself in the comments
This is saying “hey don’t judge this guy attacking random unicef workers unconnected to the people he hates while spewing hate. He might be having a hard time”.
You display no empathy for the people experiencing this assault, only for its perpetrator. Your further opinions regarding genocide can be inferred from there.
Thing is, adults, like properly emotionally mature people, don’t attack random people on the street because they’re volunteering to raise funds for an absolutely gigantic organisation to help people. I used to work for a Croatian man and his brother in law. They fought in the Bosnian conflict, and both ended up working for a series of mercenary outfits after. The levels of PTSD in these guys was…honestly…kinda fucked. I worked with them for the better part of 10 years. Met as many of their families that survived. They were adult enough to hire a few Bosnian guys as subcontract, we’d go for drinks end of the week. And these Bosnian guys were in some of the same battles as my boss and his BiL, literally trying to kill each other. What the fuck did those UNICEF people do to fucknuts? Exist? Fuck him.
Nah, Imma judge him. Zionist mind virus got him
And you don’t know that she was, so don’t fabricate narratives to justify other people’s shitty behavior.
Yeah, but many were. Just like 60k Palestinians were killed. So many people are traumatized, what I am saying is exactly what you are: stop fabricating narratives from a few seconds of someone’s bad day. You know nothing.
You seem to know though. That there might be some excuse for head butting unicef people on the street. Must be a fine world you live in
I have worked jobs like that, collecting donations in the street. And would you believe it, a lot of the people working those jobs are assholes. Whatever went on between those people in the video, we don’t know.
No you haven’t and no they aren’t.
Well with a sample size of “you” I think we can assume you’re correct here.
(You can’t just set me up like that and expect me not to hit the ball)
Right
So give me a few examples of what might warrant the head butting?
I’m gonna take a wild guess and say someone mentioned Palestine.
Here he is, guys. Lol. What the fuck does a UNICEF worker have to do with Hamas? How is this normal behavior anywhere? That dude should be arrested. I’m guessing he’s more of the type of guy that spends bad times around. It may be the I’ll fuck you in the ass or the headbutt. Idk.
Not the first time he’s been a tad one-sided on the issue
https://lemmy.world/comment/12792400
Look, I get it. I read through this thread, and I get the point you’re making, absolutely.
Always, always remember that we’re all human and prone to horrible errors of judgement. We don’t know the dude, we don’t know his story that led up to this.
What you seem to be missing is that a past trauma is no more or less likely than a neutral or positive past. None of those excuse assault and battery. You can absolutely judge a person based on their actions. We do it all the time in jury trials. Him having had some kind of suffering related to Palestine or Hamas wouldn’t mean he wasn’t guilty of assault and battery, though it might mitigate things for sentencing.
Would those UNICEF workers now be justified in going somewhere, screaming at some Israeli bank teller and head butting them? No. And I think you know that.
I applaud your compassion. We should always consider such things in forming opinions. We also do not have to forego judgement because of that compassion.
Is it really good hearted compassion or is it mental gymnastics trying to blame Hamas for this guy being a dickhead?
Using “maybe Hamas raped someone close to him” isn’t exactly “turn the other cheek” in the context of being kind to bullies
If that poster was being honest about it (a huge “if”) the most logical explanation for somebody empathising with the perpetrator of an assault but not with the victims is that they’re extremelly biased in a tribalist way and hence fully empathise with those of their tribe butnot at all with those a member of their tribe would be angry and violent against.
Or to put things in simpler terms: Nazis can really understand and share the anger that makes other Nazis be violent, never the point of view of the victims of the Nazis.
When seeing a situation like this a normal person tends to empathise with victims quite independently of who they are and not try and imagine reasons to excuse the violence of the bully.
It’s absolutely demonstrative of a bias and that’s confirmed by previous comments the poster has made. Throwaway references to how it’s bad that Palestinians are dying too don’t do a good enough job of masking it.
Why can’t you say the same thing about Palestinians?