Harris only received five percent of Republican votes — less than the six percent Joe Biden won in 2020 when he beat Trump, as well as the seven percent won by Hillary Clinton in 2016 when she lost to him. While Harris won independents and moderates, she did so by smaller margins than Biden did in 2020.
Meanwhile, Harris lost households earning under $100,000, while Democratic turnout collapsed. Votes are still being counted, but Harris is on pace to underperform Biden’s 2020 totals by millions of votes.
So left wing Democrats responded by sitting on their hands instead of voting, knowingly allowing the country to slide into whatever authoritarian hellhole that awaits us? Now that’s the definition of pettiness.
This election was lost in every measurable way. She did not lose because of leftists who didn’t vote on principal. She lost because the working class overwhelmingly chose not to vote for her. Many of them voted for Trump instead. Many first-time voters voted for Trump. She thoroughly lost to him in every possible way.
We kept trying to warn you.
And every time - every last fucking time - anyone told you that moving to the right was going to cause people to stay home, you lot shot the messenger. Every time someone screamed the writing on the wall out loud, centrists who were so happy that the party was finally embracing genocide and Cheney were like “Russian! Tankie! Trumpist!”
I voted for Harris. You’ll blame me anyway. Democrats will always shoot the messenger and double down on their simping for fascists.
I said basically the same the article says a couple of days ago and was pelted with a gazillion negative votes. Centrists are averse to learning from mistakes, otherwise they wouldn’t be centrists.
“I do not think that liberals understand the difference between influence and power, and the liberals get confused seeking influence rather than power. The conservatives on the right wing, or the fascists, understand power, though, and they move to consolidate power while the liberal pushes for influence.”
Thanks for sharing that link. It unfortunately still shows to be true even today. :(
Edit: the downvotes prove my point hah
Of course, they also said that you would be gone as soon as the election was over, since they couldn’t accept that anyone who deviated from their pro-genocide orthodoxy could be an actual person and not a Russian bot.
There will be no apologies from any of them for their disgusting near-constant libel that only stopped once there was a rule against calling people Russian bots. They just switched to calling anyone who saw what was going to happen a Trump supporter instead.
They’re too busy trying to figure out how to justify how this loss means they need to move to the right.
I’m not nearly as much of a downvote magnet as either of you, and I still have some dude following me around claiming I’m a Stein shill despite every mention of her in my history being to shit on her. They’ve just got the one move.
Yes, my friend was one of them. I was shocked when 2 weeks before election he told me he was planning on not voting.
I asked why and he cited holding the same position Isreal as Biden, and courting republicans like Cheney, saying that was not a good look for the party at all.
I told him it’s not ideal, but we need to vote to keep Trump out…. Sometimes we just have to be pragmatic.
He responded saying it’s the Dem establishment that keeps allowing a boogey man like Trump to rise so they can shove center right corporatists down our throats. He said he was abstaining from voting to send a message to the DNC, and followed it up with, “we survived a first Trump term, I’m sure we can survive a second.”
As long as you weren’t one of the million Americans who died of COVID thanks to his misadministration.
Or the Capitol police who died as a result from his attempted insurrection.
I mean, he’s an ex-pat who was living in Hong Kong, S Korea, and Vietnam for most of Trumps first term… so I’m sure he didn’t feel it as hard as most of us who were here for it.
“Thousands of my countrymen will perish, but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make.”
It’s a mistake reasoning as if you’re taking of one guy. Maybe one third of your population voted, and most of those voted for Trump, it means that most of you guys are pretty ok with dying during the next COVID or whatever
And this is what you don’t get. There’s a huge fucking gap between “not ideal” and “supporting genocide to the point that Dick Cheney likes you.” And you didn’t acknowledge it. You just belittled it with “not ideal.” Because you couldn’t admit that what Democrats were doing was monstrous and unconscionable.
Anyone who pulls this “you didn’t get 100% of everything you want, but…” shit? They got 100% of everything they wanted. Especially the genocide support. And especially Cheney.
I remember when I was 14.
Certainly hope we can
Yeah, I am definitely in the camp that Trump part 2 will be worse…. but we don’t know for sure yet
Keep in mind Trump is pushing 80 and has a steady diet of McDonalds and Diet Coke. Here’s to hoping nature takes its course.
Do you think Vance is going to be better?
Better isn’t the word I would use. I don’t think Vamce ilcould be the cult leader Trump is. I think when Trump dies it will at least take some time to build up another cult leader.
I honestly don’t know. He’s not as viscerally mean as Trump, but he’s also a lot smarter. I think some part of him is a fancy boy who wants to be liked and to win by being clever and insightful rather than just brutal. He used to write about his nice life in San Francisco doing community gardening. If he could get the upper-crust to like him (not just use him) that seems like something he’d enjoy.
But then again, he sold out to the guy he thought was Hitler, so he might just be completely without shame or conscience.
“we survived”
Many didn’t and even more won’t this time, your friend is a genocide supporter
So not voting for genocidal candidates now make genocide support? stop projecting.
The Dems were hellbent on supporting gneocide. People chose to be fine with it, even attacking people who called it out.
The flak we got here for saying for months the Dems need to stop the genocide support to win the election now raises the question whether they were just tactically wrong, or whether they werent really into the genocide themselves. That would explain why now there is efforts to project it on the other people.
At every turn we were told that supporting genocide is better than supporting genocide and homophobia. Saying we should push for a non genocidal candidate, for which there was plenty of time at first, got immediately shut down.
The most consistent position of the Biden/Harris fans was to accept genocide, because that was the strongest criticism raised consistently against them. Now you end up not only having lost the election but having lost the election because you were in support of genocide.
It is no wonder that Trump managed to win, when the center is so morally bankrupt. It is no wonder that there was no way to inspire people to vote for Harris and Biden if the messaging constantly was “yeah we are morally bankrupt and we are also genociders and racists, but we are less than the other side. This is as good as we allow to happen”.
This is on the Democrat elites and their supporters. Own up to it instead of projecting the blame.
Democrats: Support Israel, say they want the conflict to stop and a two States solution. Want to send weapons to Ukraine. Support minorities in the US.
Republicans: Support the genocide of Palestinians, of Ukrainians and of minorities inside the USA.
Voting for Republicans and not voting (so leaving the door open to them) is supporting genocide.
So every Israel aka genocide supporter had a safe vote with Trump. Everyone who opposes it had no choice with either party.
Funny thing is your friends opinions are popular on lemmy.ml which makes it seem like foreign actors are pushing these talking points. They definitely worked in Trumps favor.
Now the blue MAGA is talking about the election being stolen…
Seriosuly how did you expect to win against Trump by copying Trump? People always chose the original authoritarian nazi asshole over the knock-off copy.
You know what wouldnt have worked in Trumps favor? Stopping the genocide in Gaza. That would have led to a landslide victory for the Dems.
Honestly, probably not really. It’d have likely led to a closer election by winning them Michigan, but the Democrats had a more fundamental problem than very unpopular foreign policy.
What is this supposed to mean? Who is the blue maga?
Who is suggesting coping Trump?
The polls show voters were motivated by inflation. As much as I’d like the people of Palestine to not be safe and thrive, I literally don’t know anyone irl that considered that when voting. But the way it is pushed on lemmy you’d think it is Iran voting for Americas next president.
Keeps allowing Trump to rise? What does he expect the Dems to do?
They could have appointed an AG that wasn’t useless on purpose, for starters.
I don’t agree with him, but I think he’s expecting them to support liberal progressive policies. Seems to be taking the stance of “if we can’t improve things it’s better to watch it all burn rather than slowly rot”.
Tell him that not voting to convince them to run liberal progressive policies won’t work. You can’t play Mexican standoff because the Dems have an out: the center voters.
They tried that this time. They basically told the left to fuck off and die. Moving to the right has very publicly failed.
They literally told the left to come out for abortion rights and to save democracy. If the left doesn’t come out for that then 1) they will literally never show up, or 2) they don’t exist. Take your pick. Either the dems will never rely on the left showing up ever again. Kiss any left policy goodbye. They will go hard to the center. Clinton was right “it’s the economy stupid”.
They had you at Dick Cheney.
Yup there it is lol! Strawman central.
The article says otherwise.
So no one is ever allowed to think otherwise. Gotcha.
What exactly do you think should have been done differently for Harris to activate this “just win with centrists” option? Because it very much seems like that was just tried and failed miserably.
Was just in a very long thread with him, but he seems to think economic issues are exclusively centrist.
I’m not OP so I don’t actually know him so I can’t tell him anything, although I do know one person like that. As for your point I’m not sure that actually follows since those center voters didn’t show up to save Harris this time. If the DNC keeps losing elections at some point, assuming we’re all still here and we even still have elections, they will have to try something different. It’s a very risky play but I also can’t say it won’t work.
Harris relied on the left showing up for their rights and for democracy. That was a ton of her campaign. And the left didn’t show up. If they don’t show up for that, they won’t show up for anything. They will try something different and that’s going all in on the center voter, who actually show up.
I replied to your other comment where you said basically the same thing, but the short version is there clearly isn’t enough center voters for that to be a winning strategy. If they try that next election (If there even is a next election) it’s going to be an even more lopsided victory for the Republicans.
See my other response. It’s the other way around, there isn’t enough left (or rather, if they can’t show up for their own human fucking rights and mfing democracy, they will never never never show up for literally anything). The center is the big juicy middle that exists, that Trump appealed to, who actually show up, whose votes are worth double (because it’s a vote for you and a vote taken away from the other party), and where elections are won.
You’re right. I don’t buy this narrative that the dems lost because they were left enough. The polls show voters were motivated by inflation and thought Biden’s progressive policies were to blame.
Well Biden for example could’ve done a much better job actually
persecutingprosecuting him for his crimes. He can do that as the head of the Executive branch.Prosecute is probably the word you’re looking for, but I wouldn’t mind a bit of persecution being mixed in. Better than just letting him walk.
Lmao good catch.
Sorry dude, the problem is well beyond “leftists” and sooner or later you’ll need to confront that.
The average voter mindset is “which president will get me cheaper food?”
My parents get fed propaganda from Wechat (yes that Chinese app) saying democrats are letting too much illegal immigrants in, taking up too much resources.
We are legal immigrants, but shes doesn’t see “illegal immigrant” is a dogwhistle about all immigrants that they dont like like black or brown people, or anyone they deem inferior.
Doesnt help the fact that Eric Adams and NYC democrats are building homeless shelters near Chinese American population.
My parents told me some of our relatives in NYC voted Trump, Asian Americans voting trump.
They say some Asian American co-workers at their workplace are supporting Trump.
My parent say “Its fine, we survived one term under trump”
Everyone who’s a US Citizen in our household voted Kamala Harris. We tried. Our state PA still went red.
My US Citizen mom once said, “maybe we shouldn’t vote for democrats, look at what they did in NYC (refering to homeless shelters)”, and I reminded her about the Chinese Exclusion Act. So she vote Harris because I told her to. Like she didnt have a mind of her own. If her children turned out to be conservatives, she’d vote trump. Some people just dont care about politics. Similarly, some people have apolitical children but political parents, those children then vote for who their parents vote for.
We need to fix this voter apathy. Democracy is just broken.
(oh wow didnt mean to type a paragraph, sorry for the wall of text, election results still enraging me…)
Blue state examples are often particularly confusing for the politically uninvolved, as Eric Adams is pretty close to a Republican. Once a state gets blue enough, anyone with ambition will just say they’re Democrats and then do center-right stuff. Often the state parties are not ideological enough to deny the brand when it’s just easier to make a bigger and bigger tent of insiders.
Don’t be sorry, everything you said is correct.
Honestly unfortunately mostly unrealistic: a systemic chage towards deliberative democracy (not just USAs broken electoral democracy) would be the best according to most political science. It’s (way to) slowly happening in some European states (so the right shift may reverse that trend again). This indirection vie simple voting tends to lean towards populism and manipulation. Which got unfortunately incredibly obvious in the presidential election…
I’m not one of them, I voted a month or so in advance by mail.
But I wonder if some people are tired of the lack of change with Democrats in charge and believe that things need to get worse before they can get better.
As “hardcore-left” as I am, I just cannot fathom, being so dumb to not vote “to show the dems”. The policies of bad Republican presidents hurt us till today. Think about Reagan vastly accelerating the gap between rich and poor, or Nixon with his failed war drugs.
Agree. The “lesson-teaching” mindset has got to end.
They do, and they are fucking stupid for it.
Pretty much, although it’s probably an exaggeration to call them Democrats. In reality most of them are likely unaffiliated with any party. But it was literally Harris’s job to convince them to come out and vote for her and she failed at it. When a candidate loses an election, barring election interference, it’s their fault. Harris fucked us all by running as a diet Republican. Odds are anyone in here reading this did everything we could to hand her the win, but she pissed it all away by trying to steal votes from the Republicans instead of convincing people that they needed to get off their asses and come vote for her.
Dude, she had like 100 days to put together a campaign. She had to make a gamble and trust that the 2020 Dem voters were already in her corner so she could go after some big fish with the little time she had.
Dude, lets be real. The only reason the DNC pushed Biden out of the way was because polling numbers said the incumbent advantage (and his policies) weren’t going to be enough to win it for him. So Kamala comes out of the gate with a boost (because she’s not Joe) and promptly proclaims she can’t name a single policy decision she would have made differently than Biden. That’s not winning undecided voters from either side.
Literally not true. Were you just not paying attention?
Shortly after becoming candidate, she was asked in an interview if she could think of anything she would have done different than Biden. She replied:
I voted for Harris but I think that was a monumental fuckup.
True, and she never said anything else after that…
Ok… But that’s not what we are talking about is it? You said the statement ‘and promptly proclaims she can’t name a single policy decision she would have made differently than Biden.’ was “Literally not true”. But it literally is.
I don’t have the time nor the want to unpack the rest of this clusterfuck campaign.
She got handed a losing Biden campaign that was on fire, and thought the smart move was to double down on his policies that were already losing him the election, and then to throw in some Republican talking points. It was very obviously a losing strategy no matter how little time she had. The Democrats have been relying on “not Republicans” to carry them to victory for so long they seem to have forgotten why people vote for them over the Republicans.
Everything is "very obvious ” with 20/20 hindsight.
Everything is “hindsight” if you scream that the people saying it are Russian bots so you can ignore it until it’s too late.
This stuff was all talked about prior to the election.
For many, actively supporting Israeli genocide is something they simply can’t support.
If there’s anything that this election has proven, it’s that there are A LOT of one issue voters in this country, across the board. They’ll ignore everything else for the one issue they care about above all else. And when you only have two viable parties, that forced a black and white decision.
The fundamental solution is eradicating First Past the Post and getting ranked choice voting so we have a multitude of parties that are all more nuanced instead.
But that won’t happen unless we abandon both of the major parties we have now, and they can’t let that happen because that means they lose power.
What is Trump’s stated opinion on Israel and its war in Gaza? What is Trump’s stated opinion -and first term actions- on Muslims? Seriously, the Biden & Harris = “genocide” horseshit was 100% designed to disenfranchise Democrats. Congress votes on foreign aid. Congress is largely Republican. Protesters NEVER went after Republicans.
So why are the democrats currently taking part in genociding Palestinians? Thats horseshit too?
Is anything stopping them from being vocally opposed to the situation?
Both candidates messaging was they would “get the war over with” but I guess it sounds better coming from Kamala than Trump?
horseshit
Oh 100%. But if there’s anything this election proved, it’s that the average American is fucking stupid, gullible as shit, and unable to determine propaganda from reality.
Yeah, and the problem is people just kind of stop at “they’re dumb” like that’s just the end of it. “They’re dumb and our opponents are unscrupulous so we’ll never win until dumbness is eradicated”. It’s an influence campaign. Figure out a way to make the dumb people want to vote for you! The dumb people exist, some of them vote, and others could probably be encouraged to vote who don’t.
No ad agency would stay in business by saying “sorry, we didn’t get you any extra sales, but it’s not our fault because the consumers are dumb, and also you should hire us to do it all over again next time because our failure was the absolute best that could have been done under the circumstances”.
So now they get genocide and child rape. NICE
I seriously doubt left wingers were the difference in this election. I doubt there are significant enough numbers of far left people in Georgia, North Carolina, Michigan, and Wisconsin for it to have made any real difference.
“That’ll show ‘em!”
They all campaigned for Harris and mostly held their criticism to themselves. Harris is the one who decided to go campaign with Liz Cheney and Mark Cuban.
Looks like you agree with the announcement 🤦
Harris relied on the left showing up for their rights and for democracy. But they will literally never show up. This is why the Dems will never, ever rely on the left showing up ever again. Dems will go hard center next election.
I don’t think there’s enough center left for them to go any harder center without going further left. They were already running on a bunch of right wing Republican policies. They’ve only got three options. Go harder right and actually become diet Republicans (all the oligarchy, but only half the fascism!). Stay exactly where they are. Or go left and return to being mildly progressive. They’ve shown that where they are currently is a losing proposition, so realistically their option is to try to appeal to the middle of the Republican base, or walk back some of their right shift of the last few decades. I don’t think they’re going to be able to successfully out Republican the Republicans so they’ve really only got one viable play.
I don’t know how else to say it: Harris relied on the left with abortion rights and saving democracy, and the left didn’t show up. The center cares about inflation and housing, which Harris did not address enough. They will go to that center, Bill Clinton’s “It’s the economy, stupid”. There will be no real progress, just economy for the center.
Left isn’t just social policies, it’s economic policies as well. She should have been talking about inflation and housing this election in addition to things like abortion. Instead she decided to focus on border control and foreign policy, two Republican talking points, and even worse she decided to go right on both of them.
We live in different worlds because I think her focus was on abortion and saving democracy. Border is both center and right imo, you’d be amazed.
Foreign policy is an example of how no one cares about Gaza or Ukraine (or NATO), which are what the left cares about. The left didn’t show up. Yes the Gaza situation is fucked, but the difference between Harris and Trump are stark and vast.
And you think making that difference narrower would have improved Harris’ chances?
That was about Gaza, holy bad faith. Hey I recognize you.
As though there exists any policy you won’t advocate moving right on.
The difference is in who they will fuck over so we can stay greedy and entitled. Democrats fuck over poor people, republicans fuck over minorities and immigrants. Both groups fuck over the rest of the world.
The left would vote for the “won’t fuck anyone over” party if there was one.
Oh yeah “we will give you abortion rights” is really fucking people over.
Well let’s hope so so they can collapse and a real leftist (or even just sane) party can rise from the ashes.
If a “real leftist” party arises from the ashes, guess what will happen? They will lose in the election. That’s the whole point of what I’m saying: left policies do not win elections. We literally just saw this. Harris said to the left “come out for your body rights. come out for your democracy.” If the left can’t come out for that they 1) will literally never ever come out, or 2) they don’t exist.
What wins elections is “it’s the economy stupid”.
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They did, but it isn’t great knowing how much better they are than you? We can at least take comfort in their “moral high ground” even though they let a guy who explicitly stated he wanted to be a dictator become president.
It’s not like they could’ve made their voices heard after she became President, you know?