I’ve only ever played 5e for my ttrpgs, but with WOTC showing its true colors, I’m trying to find a new system to adopt. I’ve been seeing people say Pathfinder 2e, and while i have a digital copy of the book I’ve been reading, i didn’t realize how large it was until i saw it in a game store; the core rulebook is almost 3 times as long as the 5e PHB!
I guess what I’m looking for is a system that isn’t as heavy as Pathfinder 2e but still has depth to it. Do you all have any suggestions?
The length of the 2E Corebook is mostly due to it containing basically the PHB+GM Guide. It might look intimidating, but it’s really not as crunchy as it seems. So I really recommend trying to find a game in your LGS or online to join just to test out the system. Imo, Savage Worlds is a decent alternative to Pathfinder, even has a pathfinder setting. It’s a bit more rules-light as 2E but still offers good amounts of depth. Plus it is a setting agnostic system, so you can play Fantasy, Horror, SciFi, Cyberpunk, pretty much anything you can think of.
As someone who’s been annoyed with Hasbro’s attempt to become Disney-2, I’m glad you’re getting away from them. I guess the question about a new system is, what do you like about D&D?
Do you like the crunchy tactical combat? If so, probably Savage Worlds or an OSR game such as OSRIC, Black Hack, or Swords & Wizardry would be best. Yes they’re based on old D&D, but they don’t give money to Hasbro.
If it’s the ability to do social things and you’d be okay without dice, try out Microscope. If you’re looking to hang out and laugh with a couple mature friends who won’t get upset over actions in a game, I suggest Paranoia.
If you’re interested in the deep settings which provide ideas for adventures and campaigns, I’d suggest Vaesen. It’s a game about dealing with Scandinavian mythological creatures - they’ve also extended it to include England and Ukraine recently. Note that I said ‘dealing with’ - that’s not always ‘fighting’.
If you like the Warhammer 40,000 setting, I would look up the Fantasy Flight games in that setting (Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, Deathwatch, etc.).
I’d also suggest looking at Fate Core from Evil Hat games, because they really get a fun, pulpy feel, and there’s a lot of settings, ranging from the comedic Uranium Chef to ones that are a lot more serious.
If you’re looking to build your own setting and really develop it, I’d look at either Burning Wheel, Forge Engine, or DOGS; they’re solid systems. Forge Engine is better for “modern” settings, Burning Wheel is definitely built for high-fantasy settings, and DOGS is built to be about decision making and your character choices affecting the world around them.
Also, just as a general suggestion, just go on Drivethru, search for Free items with the Product Type “Core Rulebooks”. You’ll find a lot of interesting games that way.
If you liked 5e but not a fan of what WotC is doing, I would suggest looking into Level Up: Advanced 5e. They’ve improved on a lot of things about 5e (e.g. monster stat blocks and challenge ratings) and you can still use your adventures and supplements (with maybe some tweaks).
In general, with as many different rulesets that exist, I would say that offering a bit more of what you want in a TTRPG experience would go a long way in helping people offer suggestions. Example keywords: sci-fi, fantasy, modern, cinematic, tactical, mystery, supernatural, etc.
[Edit: misspelling]
I’ve always been a big fan of Savage Worlds as an alternative to D&D. They’re running a big kickstarter right now for their 20th anniversary.
My suggestion would be to go a bit more old school with the Dungeon Crawl Classics RPG by Goodman Games. It’s lighter than 5e and PF2e, but there’s a fun magic system and martial characters also get some love through the improvisational Mighty Deeds of Arms mechanic. There’s only one core book, but there’s an incredible amount of adventure and setting support. The community is chill and welcoming.
Kobold Press is making their own 5e compatible game, if you’ve invested heavily in 5e adventures/3rd party products. It’s called Tales of the Valiant and looks to be pretty interesting. I’m a Pathfinder 2e player/gm myself, but I backed Tales of the Valiant on Kickstarter just because it looks neat.
I’d say Pathfinder is way less heavy to run than D&D5e. The amount of pages is mostly due to two things:
- Pathfinder ha a “rules over rulings” approach, so a lot of rules are codified and you don’t need to know them: you just need to look them up when you find a situating you don’t know how to resolve (the Archives of Nethys website is incredible for this).
- Some things are spelled out multiple times rather than have a million “See page 524” references for a single paragraph rule.
The only things you need to run a successful Pathfinder game are:
- Build the characters, following the order, with your players
- Read the game mastering section
- Trust that the game is balanced and the encounter builder does not disappoint
Finally, if you’re still intimidated, just run an Adventure! The Beginner’s Box is a great place to start easily even as a new GM, or if you’re feeling you want a more ambitious campaign you can pick an Adventure Path (I recommend Age of Ashes).
You’ll see that as soon as you just start paying everything fits quite seamlessly.
Just word of caution for players coming from 5e: the game expects teamwork and you using other actions than just attacking (Demoralize, in particular is an Action I recommend to new players). Just in general, it rewards you setting up the next player more than just going for them yourself.
