• nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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    12 days ago

    Most other countries got there by voting people into power that wrote and voted these principles into law. Voted for people that improved their democratic processes.

    If you think it doesn’t matter that you voted for the most capitalist candidate as long as you do a little Robin Hood shit on the side, you’ve seen too many movies and not enough history imo

    • simplymath@lemmy.world
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      12 days ago

      Nah. monarchies were largely ended by the Napoleonic wars and world war 1. It’s ahistorical to say Democracy was earned through electoralism. It also just makes no sense.

      The Spanish revolution was definitely a bloody conflict. So was the foundation of Yugoslavia and it’s NATO backed dissolution. So was Finnish independence from Russia. Or Ukrainian. Or Polish. Or Estonian or Latvian.

      Switzerland was founded by war too. Germany’s democracy was imposed by an occupying force-- as was Japan’s.

      France murdered their entire royal family. British India faced a decades long insurgency and worker strikes. The Magna Carta was signed after the king was fucking kidnapped.

      America’s founding myth is centered on a symbolic action to destroy private property (the Boston tea party).

      The only country (that I can think of) that voted for it’s democracy was Canada and that was only after a genocide of the indigenous population and centuries of colonial rule.

      • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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        12 days ago

        I’m not talking about becoming a democracy, I’m talking about *improving *and modernizing their democracies. As well as, well, voting for and enacting all the policy examples you listed

          • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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            12 days ago

            And do you think it was the bombers that wrote this into law, or elected politicians?

            edit: and why did other countries manage to get it into law a lot faster than the US?

            • simplymath@lemmy.world
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              12 days ago

              I think the law is irrelevant without a mass movement. You simply won’t get the law without the mass movement.

              You can’t get from where we are to working class liberation without passing through working class struggle.

              • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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                12 days ago

                Sure. Mass movement, politicians, pen, paper, law

                Leave one of those out and it probably won’t work

            • simplymath@lemmy.world
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              12 days ago

              Also, I need a source about other countries enacting this before the US. In the 1880s, there wasn’t exactly a plethora of Democratic governments anywhere. Germany was a brand new idea and so was Italy. France encompassed parts of Spain and Sweden, which was itself an empire with a military dictator. The UK is still a monarchy with colonies that want to secede (namely Jamaica) and the Netherlands is too. Swedish people didn’t have surnames yet–they adopted the last name of their employer.

              Eastern Europe had serfdom and antisemitic laws were the norm.

              I would totally believe the UK got it first, but not without a mass mobilization of working class people.

              Seriously, what are you talking about?

              • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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                12 days ago

                Well, the US only enacted it in 1937

                So I only have basically all of Europe off the top of my head

                • simplymath@lemmy.world
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                  12 days ago

                  Right. So it was a 50 year long struggle led by the working class and groups like the Wobblies and your solution is to vote harder?

                  To what extent can we credit colonial nations like Portugal and the UK and the Netherlands for extending this right exclusively to white people with political capital?

                  Is it really a “pass” if the comfort of the homeland was predicated on slavery and/or empire elsewhere?

                  • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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                    11 days ago

                    Not ‘harder’. Smarter, better and more consistently.

                    And yeah the US is the only country that never meddled in or abused other countries for economic gain, or benefitted from slavery in any way, so that’s the only one in the world where workers’ rights really count. Right