Not the bad porn script you were expecting, I swear. 🙃
So here’s one for fans of grey areas.
SO has brought two daughters and a son into our relationship. They’re all young adults now. We generally get along well and I’m a trusted third party and, according to the then-minor younger daughter, a good source for pregnancy tests and the such “because you’re the least likely to freak out”.
We’re generally a very open and judgement-free family, and I’m immensely proud of the fact that the kids feel comfortable talking freely about love and sex with both of us despite their ‘traditional’ catholic indoctrination upbringing. We’ve established that we can talk about anything but won’t go into detail about their or my personal preferences. This works very well and there’s a lot of trust. Whenever their mother’s not around, the kids talk to me about whatever’s on their mind (anything really, not just love/sex stuff).
There’s one thing that makes me slightly uncomfortable though, and I’m not sure if I’m the one who’s at fault here. It’s the older daughter’s choice of clothing at home. Especially in summer and near the pool, she often walks around in a t-shirt or scant bikini top and panties whose front just about covers the crack and whose back leaves nothing to the imagination.
I’m very happy that she’s both happy enough with her body and feels comfortable enough around me to walk around this way. Especially the former has been a bit of work on her mother’s part.
Now my own background is that I come from a very uptight family myself (sex is an evil and shameful thing that the wife endures because she owes it to her husband) but am very open now (swinger clubs, former co-host for BDSM meetings etc.). I also have a minor degree in both communication and sex therapy.
Still you never entirely shake off an upbringing based entirely on shame and guilt, and occasionally there’s a situation that instinctively makes me uncomfortable, but upon closer inspection I conclude that it really shouldn’t.
I’m currently trying to figure out whether this is one of those false-alarm situations, and it really bothers me.
On the one hand, “you don’t wear that kind of outfit in front of men you’re not biologically related to.”
On the other hand, why not? She should be able to wear whatever she’s comfortable with in the privacy of our home. And you can’t make a request such as “dress more modestly” without it smelling of misogyny.
On the other other hand, it would definitely be inappropriate for her to walk around entirely in the nude, so there’s got to be a line somewhere.
(Let me add that she’s never even remotely tried anything, and I really don’t think of her in ‘that’ way, so that’s not the issue.)
TL;DR: Adult stepdaughter sometimes wears revealing clothes, makes me uncomfortable, not sure if it’s supposed to. Nothing fishy going on.
EDIT: Wow, so much food for thought. I don’t think I’m going to be able to reply to everyone individually, but I’ve come to realize that what makes me uncomfortable is probably the idea that she or other people around us might feel uncomfortable, and in the classic stepfather-stepdaughter constellation I could be seen as a potential ‘perpetrator’, which I’d need to protect myself against. So it’s really just mostly me worrying about what other people might think (but probably don’t).
But the point is, if she’s comfortable there’s really nothing tangible for me to worry about.
Sounds like the issue is that you feel sexually attracted to her at a purely base and instinctual level and you don’t want to feel that way towards someone you consider as a daughter, and it’s easier for you to try to have her fix the problem than for you to process your own lizard brain response to an attractive woman being near you.
There is nothing inherently wrong with feeling the way you’re feeling, it just means that like most people you are not actually as noble and pure as you would prefer to be.
If you can process that whole shebang then it might make it easier for you to actually step into the role of being closer to your own personal ideal of pure.
I would start with taking a deep breath, holding it for the count of three, and then exhaling it and noting how you feel, what you feel, and how that makes you feel, and then accepting that without being influenced by it.
Sexual urges are normal. Not being in control of them is not normal.
Also, don’t tell your wife or daughter what you’re going through unless you can’t control it and need intervention from them.
They may think less of you for it but no one is perfect, and no one is expected to be perfect, but it’s hard to explain to people the simple truths of these things without them judging you on their own criteria, and it would be rare to be in a situation where you can freely express your feelings of physical attraction to your step daughter without it seeming like a fetish kink perversion type thing and not as an involuntary neuronal activation response.
This is a really weird assumption that he has some hidden
pedophilesexual urges just because he doesn’t want to see someone’s genitals.You’ve misread that entirely. There’s no mention of pedophilia anywhere.
I get what you’re saying and I’d have no problem admitting to what you’re describing, but can honestly say that I’m really not attracted to her. Apart from the age difference (which is a real turn-off for me) and the fact that I’m married to her mother, she’s just not my type. (And I’m thankful for that - I can only imagine the ways it would complicate things). I wouldn’t consider her to be my daughter any more if I were her biological father.
Even my dick agrees, and he’s known to have made some wildly inappropriate statements in the past.Ya these responses are making some really weird assumptions. Don’t let them gaslight you.
Just from my interpretation of your post, it seems like the tiny little nugget of discomfort comes from you being aware that the situation could be viewed as inappropriate from an external source.
Whatever the specifics are I know you can work through it and come through and rescue the situation without having to alter the family dynamic to do so.
This is definitely an opportunity to build yourself up and make more of the potential that you have.
I don’t understand why you assume it’s sexual.
In short:
🗿
On the other hand, it would definitely be inappropriate for her to walk around entirely in the nude
Now I’m going to get downvoted to oblivion for saying this, but just hear me out. Why would she be inappropriate even if she did that? How does the act of being nude at home harm anyone? There is literally not a single explanation as to why nudity must be looked down upon like so.
The only reason why nudity is perceived to be inappropriate is due to cultural/religious reasons. I believe it is due to this misunderstanding that being naked equals having sex. This however is obviously not the case. Scandinavian culture is much more libertarian in this regard. Look up their “saunas”. Compare this to Middle Eastern culture for instance, where skin isn’t appreciated much.
When we look at your situation from this point of view, should an individual really have any right to dictate another adult individual about their choice of clothing? I believe the only reason why the revealing clothes are making you (or anyone for that matter) uncomfortable is due to cultural/religious influences. Shake that aside, and this situation doesn’t even remotely become special or weird.
You bring up an interesting point, and I have an answer in my head that makes perfect sense to me, I’m just not sure I have the vocabulary to convey it.
A lot of sex- or genitalia-related things (or intimate things in general) depend on the context more than on the act itself - e.g. even though my urologist has seen & handled my wedding tackle in the past (and I’ve even paid him for it!), it would be considered rather unprofessional of him to want to do exactly the same thing if we happened to meet at the pub. My masseuse only touches my butt during a massage, etc.
Nudity is not a bad thing as such. It’s just that we’re not a nudist family at all, and so if anyone walked around in the nude, it would be way beyond the social norms (for lack of a better word) that we as a family have been practicing for years. I would at the very least expect them to give us a heads-up and explain to us why they suddenly want to stop wearing clothes.
The social norms we have don’t always make perfect sense, but may still be important to either maintain or challenge as a group because other people’s comfort zones depend on them.Also, as a male in the perfect age group for a mid-life crisis interacting with impressionable young females that are somewhat dependent on me, I always feel like I need to be super-duper extra cautious.
I hope that makes sense.
handled my wedding tackle
Heheh… “wedding tackle”… niccceeeee
may still be important to either maintain or challenge as a group because other people’s comfort zones depend on them.
See, now this is where I would disagree. How much should society care about an individual’s comfort zone? What if I hate seeing gay men? Should gays be banned from existence because I feel uncomfortable around them? What if I don’t like women showing their hair? Should then we criminalize women not wearing hijabs?
This is the way I see it. If an individual’s freedom to do act A adversely affects another individual’s “freedom to live” above a certain limit, then and only then must Act A must be criminalized. If I am sexually touched without my consent, then it encroaches upon my freedom to live. This is because being touched without consent has demonstrable ramifications on my mental health, which statistically have further ramifications on my will to live. However, seeing someone naked does not have any of these consequences. This is demonstrable by comparing different cultures around the world.
Now for the “norm” part, I get it. Is it “different” or “out of the ordinary” for someone to suddenly be naked in a non-nudist family like yours? Sure. It is also natural that you would be curious as to why someone would be doing something like this. You’re right. Context matters. However, context is also set by humans, right? Which means, that the rules of permissibility can be modified or maintained by these very humans.
In your specific case, there are two possibilities: your daughter is being nude-ish intentionally or unintentionally. From what you’ve written, chances are that she’s doing it unintentionally. This then makes stuff quite easy. Does her nudity affect you in ways you cannot control? Examples of such scenarios that I can think of would be “I was sexually assaulted, and the sight of women bits brings back PTSD” or something like that. If that is not the case then imo, it is not your place to tell her what or how she should choose what she wears. However, if you think she is doing stuff intentionally (which seems improbable based on what you’ve said in your post), then you definitely can ask her about the reason behind her doing that. Again, this doesn’t mean that you can tell her what she wears/doesn’t wear. This just means stuff like “If you’re flashing your bits to woo me, then sorry, I’m not being wooed”.
So in conclusion, in my opinion, “because it makes me uncomfortable” is not a good enough argument to tell another human what to do /not do something. Sure, if it has demonstrable negative repercussions like the way harassment/physical assault, etc. do, then it makes sense do prevent someone else from doing the causal action. Hence, in your case, unless you seeing your daughter’s bits has demonstrable negative effects on you, you have no right to dictate her choice of clothing.
Most people still go to gendered saunas and families rarely sauna together nude when the kids are teenagers or older
Well sure. I didn’t say that the Scandinavian countries were nudity paradises. I mentioned them to demonstrate how two different cultures can have two different outlooks on nudity. I wanted to show how nudity isn’t inherently harmful to humans in a general setting. For example, public defecation is objectively bad for human health. Hence, a taboo against it is justified. Nudity however poses no such threats. Why then is it looked down upon?
Just say nothing, but start wearing your bdsm outfit.
This has to be the definite answer. 😂
As a woman who is attracted to other women it has never been a problem for me and my friends to get dressed together or hang out together wearing far less than what you are describing. The only reason I can think of for it to be uncomfortable is if someone is viewing someone else with desire. If that is not the reason, what is? If it is the reason stop doing that and you won’t be uncomfortable.
There is no universal “line”. Every family has its own implicit rules about clothing and nudity, which vary from situation to situation.
If she doesn’t question the rules acquired on her mother’s side (your SO doesn’t seem to be worried by her clothes), it’s because she sees you as an adult in the family, i.e. someone she trusts and who won’t sexualize her.
If you feel uncomfortable, I think you should work on that on your side. I think these days, it must be precious for a young adult to have a safe place, where she can dress without being judged or sexualized. You shouldn’t risk taking that away from her.
Personal opinion: casual nudity should be more prevalent and in the longer term makes it easier to handle nudity without associating it with sexuality.
I feel like this is one of those things where if you grow up around it it’s a lot easier to handle than if you were suddenly thrust into it.
There’s definitely going to be an awkward transition phase at the very least
phrasing
Sure, but one the other hand, I find things like the recently ever more popular No-Bra movement to be very refreshing. Now when I notice a nipple poking through, I don’t find it nearly as interesting as I would’ve a decade ago.
I don’t know, every time I see a pokey it gets memorialized to the spank bank even if I never call on it. I try not to be that person. I really do, but the little man downstairs owns 40% of my compute capacity and sometimes I have to tap into it in order to function in society.
NGL, same at the moment but it was worse and in my experience it got less once I started going to nude spas every once in a while
If it’s really warm, you can’t really blame her. It’s just a brief period during the year when she’ll be like this, so what’s the harm? Not sure where you live, but I’d wear nothing but my underwear where I am right now.
I’d say the best course of action would be to say nothing and just ignore it. If my step father would say something like that to me, I’d feel a bit uncomfortable. It’s up to you though, you know your family better than we do.
Removed by mod
It’s good that you’ve acknowledged your biases. I think everyone’s voice here has been pretty uninanimous: her attire isn’t inherently an issue.
If it makes you uncomfortable you’re fully entitled to voice that, but you should be open to the fact that the answer will probably be “that’s a bit of a you problem”.
On the other other hand, it would definitely be inappropriate for her to walk around entirely in the nude, so there’s got to be a line somewhere.
Question here is - would that really be inappropriate, or is it also just the way you feel?
Where I’m from it’s not seen as a problem to see family members nude - my wife coming from a different culture was a bit surprised when she bumped into my dad on the way to the shower the first time, but got used to it quickly.
Especially around the pool - assuming it is shielded from the street - I wouldn’t see any issues about not wearing clothes (and wouldn’t bother myself).
I don’t think any amount of clothing, or lack thereof, should be treated as inherently sexual/inappropriate. She should be able to wear what makes her comfortable, especially at home.
Families get raised in nudist colonies, so I agree about nothing inherently wrong about naked.
Not sure if I can give you specific advice, but I would say that your statement that her being naked around you is also a cultural “line” that’s not written in stone. Now I’m assuming that you’re from the US, I’m from a European country where many people don’t have that line. While I don’t have any step family of my own, I can say that I’ve seen and been around many of my in-laws naked without there being any issue. I also grew up in a family where we all saw each other naked all the time, and my wife have a stepfather who’s seen her naked since she and her mom moved in with him when she was about 14. That being said, even in my country I know friends from other families where that would be considered weird, so I’m not trying to say your thinking is inherently wrong. Maybe you should start by discussing this with your partner to get their view on it?
but I would say that your statement that her being naked around you is also a cultural “line” that’s not written in stone
I agree with you in principle. Let me elaborate.
There’s nothing wrong with nudity per se. However, in this particular case, suddenly walking around in the nude would be so much outside the norms that we as a family have lived for years that it couldn’t not be a statement of some kind. So maybe I should have written “it would definitely be inappropriate for her to walk around entirely in the nude without explaining the reason to the other family members first” instead.
Also, friends might come over unannounced, and they’re not guaranteed to be as nonchalant about it or not stare, so…
I’d talk to your SO and have them have that conversation with them.
It’s okay to have boundaries in your house regardless of whether they are an adult or not.
Seems like my opinion is an unpopular one here but here goes:
If the tables were turned and it was an adult revealing too much of their body to a child and making the child uncomfortable it would be inappropriate.
If someone goes out in public naked under a trench coat and exposes themselves to people who don’t want to see their genitals it’s sexual assault.
I realize different countries have different social norms but just because a scandanavian country is ok with nudity doesn’t mean that the rest of the world is or has to be. You have your own social norms based on where you live and at least in the US, certain body parts make the majority uncomfortable when visible. I don’t see this as right or wrong, just local customs.
If social norms were to change to accept nudity then that would change the situation. Some of these comments downplay the fact that it makes you uncomfortable just because nudity is accepted in a scandanavian country. Which is like saying: “In middle eastern countries woman must be fully covered at all times so you should live by that custom”, which is the opposite side of the same spectrum of acceptable nudity.
It’s my opinion that we all have to coexist and that means taking other peoples feeling into consideration to some degree. Even if those feelings are formed from social norms that change depending on where you are.
To answer your question, I don’t think it is good to talk directly to the daughter and tell her to change the way she dresses but I would let her mother know it makes me uncomfortable and try to find a compromise.
Adult stepdaughter
His stepdaughter is an adult.
came here after the edit - nice! it’s really great to see that there’s real, sensible advice being given here. i’m uh, not used to seeing that online.
i guess what i noticed about this post is how well it’s written. there were a few parts that just felt sad that you needed to clarify. but when i remove those TMI parts from the context, i realize how much value that those extra reassurances bring to the discussion.
Yeah, imagine the reactions to such a post on r/askreddit. 😅
