Basically if I put on a “no fat chicks” shirt I’m universally (and rightly) panned as a complete asshole by anyone except other dudes who would wear the same shirt, however if some woman puts “no manlets” in her tinder bio it’s “yasss go off queen” universally.
But that’s not true. There are parties on both sides that would cheer and jeer both shirts. I have absolutely seen some women cheer that kind of shit, but it’s not universal. Just like “not all men,” not all women behave like that. Do some women make fun of small dicks, absolutely. Do some men make fun of small dicks. Yes. Do some men and women make fun of attributes they find unattractive, yes. I did not meant to come off as I’m defending the jeering for either, both are inappropriate and cruel, but the idea that women are able to go around just saying whatever about whatever with no push back is false, as well as the idea that people are not still picky about women’s bodies and how they live.
I still believe that some men are facing this for the first time, so it feels like it’s just them. They didn’t see this when women’s magazines were focused on how to get a man. They didn’t see a issue when only women with a certain shape were in media. They didn’t care that women were plot devices instead of characters. They didn’t care that a lot of “coming of age” movies for girls were about the glow up, and not character development. They not only didn’t care, they got angry when women just started to be included, especially if they aren’t “attractive”, in video games. There was no outcry about how terrible any of that was until women started to get loud about it. And I’m glad that men are included in this movement, because they have been dealing with a lot of shit that they had to bury, but I do not see this “it’s okay to make men feel like shit but not women” attitude universally. And I do not see women no longer being included in the list of targets.
Again, I’m not saying only women do it either. You seem to be taking my statements out of context. “Universally,” as it may imply, includes men as well who think “have truck so small peepee” jokes are original groundbreaking material. Sure, I don’t mean “literally every human on earth including uncontacted Amazonian tribes in Brazil and babies without the capacity for language” by “universal,” but rather “widely accepted by society” since pedantry is your purview. Yes there are some people who think neither is ok (oh hey look it’s me) but there are more people who think one is ok but not the other (and I’m guessing that’d be you, since you chose to take up the argument on the “pro women bodyshaming men” side when I dared to assert that I see more acceptance of body shaming in one direction than the other.)
As to women’s magazine’s focus on “how to get a man,” this may come as a surprise, but I’m not an editor of a woman’s magazine and I feel comfortable guessing that most men also do not edit women’s magazines. In fact most men are completely divorced from such publications be it “employed by” or “subscribed to.” I’ve never read a cosmo in my life and honestly I’d bet no woman under 30 has either, print is so dead reading is a hobby now (and one I enjoy, still not women’s magazines though.) As such I (and likely most men) have absolutely 0, I repeat 0 influence on what is contained within those glossy pages. I can’t blame women for what GQ publishes (the only “men’s magazine” I can think of so sue me) I can just “continue not reading that garbage, and pick up MAD or Mineshaft (the only good magazines I can think of) instead.” In fact many men did see an issue with all that, they still weren’t the publishers, mostly boyfriends and husbands of cosmo obsessed women that said things like “idk where the hell that magazine gets it’s bullshit,” it was widely (that better?) panned for offering crazy unsubstantiated advice like “Shake his nuts like you’re playing Yahtzee.” (Yes, that is an actual cosmo quote, these people can’t be trusted.) Comedians even have bits on it, so many it’s now hack!
Meanwhile: I have a gun and I drive a truck.
Now, that’s not true, but what was the first thing you thought of upon reading it? That I’m “clearly compensating for something?” Try posting that same sentiment somewhere else, where it isn’t clearly bait, and see what happens. Then post a pic of some ugly/fat/whatever woman on r/selfie (or somewhere equally “not bait”), and see what happens. Guarantee you’ll see one is more widely accepted.
I apologize if I took your statement out of context. But where are we getting that “more people think one is okay and not the other?” And where in any of my responses have I said anything close to “pro women body shaming men?” I have said both are cruel and not appropriate and if any of my statements have come off as anything else, I again apologize because that was not, is not, and will never be my intention. I’m trying to say that it’s going on for both. I personally do not believe the claim that now it’s okay to make fun of men, nor would I agree with that if someone was arguing that. I’m trying to say that the issues men are facing when it comes to physical judgements are the same pressures women are also dealing with.
When it comes to the women’s magazine, I did not mean to imply that men need to read those magazines, nor that they are the ones making all articles(and while print may be dead, websites, TikTok, etc are still thriving), I brought it up because a lot of articles for women, print or otherwise, were focused on how to get men and make yourself attractive to men, not about actual women’s issues. And to think that men have no influence on the media that they often curated is naive, just as it would be to say women don’t affect it either. What men are attracted to has an affect on what articles for women tend to reflect, what women get on TV, and what women are allowed to be visible. Like the whole trend of “men don’t like - insert clothing item here-.” or men not liking heavy make up. All of them? No, but it did and does happen. Now, men are also getting the “this is what it takes to be a high value man” and they don’t like it. I wouldn’t not want them to like it or be silent while that happens. I can be anti body shaming if it only applies to some people.
Just because I don’t agree with you about men getting judged more frequently or harshly than women (because I think men are just now included in this particular fray) does not mean I agree with you being shamed, judged, etc.
Also, I live in the US. Don’t get me wrong, people absolutely do judge that, but not all, and you assuming that I think you’re compensating for something is incorrect. You’ve wrote thoughtful, amicable, responses to my comments and are clearly very passionate about the issue. You were not rude, you didn’t curse me out or degrade me. That is not the behavior I associate with someone trying to compensate, and I’m sorry that people have made you feel that way (myself included if I’ve done that to you). I am also sorry to come off that I think people being cruel or judgemental to men is okay because “women deal with it to.”
Body shaming of men in current year 2024 is more acceptable to society at large than body shaming of women in current year 2024, if you’re seriously denying that you’re not paying attention or are stuck on “but it used to be-” yet we’re talking about the current “2024” year that is the one we’re in. Literally just observe or try body shaming both for yourself (for science only lol) and find out, if someone calls body shaming men out here it was probably me lol.
What I’m saying is that “Woman fat” has become an unacceptable comment in 2024, while it may have been acceptable in the past, it no longer is at least largely, yet “man with truck have small peepee,” is still largely lauded as comedic genius in 2024. I’m saying “one go down but the other go up,” which you seem to actually agree with I think.
I’m also saying that public perception of body shaming depends on the gender shamed: When men are shamed for body related things like not enough hair, fat, small wiener, or short, the majority of responses are “funny” or “truu” or “slay,” yet when women are shamed for excess hair, fat, small titti, or tall, the comments are all “body positivity,” etc. This may be the part we disagree on, but we’ll just have to keep disagreeing lol.
I’m just trying to get to the point where it doesn’t matter what gender is body shamed, there’s some consistency applied to the “don’t make fun of people for what they can’t control” bit, if that’s the direction we’re moving in.
Honestly it seems like we may agree more than disagree.
I can agree with that. I don’t think people are used to having to take men’s feelings into consideration (with the body shaming or, like, anything to be fair) the same way they do with women, and are usually less empathetic to them because of that.
It was a pleasure discussing this with you, even if we disagree on some things. I think both of are hearts are in the right place, and I can’t be mad at that. And, next time, I hope to be in the comments with you to call it out too🤝🏾
I can agree with that as well. It was indeed nice discussing with you as well, all too often comments can get too heated and it’s always nice to have a regular ol’ pleasant conversation even when we disagree a bit lol. I hope to see you there with me too! :Handshake: (I hope that text I just typed becomes an emoji lol
But that’s not true. There are parties on both sides that would cheer and jeer both shirts. I have absolutely seen some women cheer that kind of shit, but it’s not universal. Just like “not all men,” not all women behave like that. Do some women make fun of small dicks, absolutely. Do some men make fun of small dicks. Yes. Do some men and women make fun of attributes they find unattractive, yes. I did not meant to come off as I’m defending the jeering for either, both are inappropriate and cruel, but the idea that women are able to go around just saying whatever about whatever with no push back is false, as well as the idea that people are not still picky about women’s bodies and how they live.
I still believe that some men are facing this for the first time, so it feels like it’s just them. They didn’t see this when women’s magazines were focused on how to get a man. They didn’t see a issue when only women with a certain shape were in media. They didn’t care that women were plot devices instead of characters. They didn’t care that a lot of “coming of age” movies for girls were about the glow up, and not character development. They not only didn’t care, they got angry when women just started to be included, especially if they aren’t “attractive”, in video games. There was no outcry about how terrible any of that was until women started to get loud about it. And I’m glad that men are included in this movement, because they have been dealing with a lot of shit that they had to bury, but I do not see this “it’s okay to make men feel like shit but not women” attitude universally. And I do not see women no longer being included in the list of targets.
Again, I’m not saying only women do it either. You seem to be taking my statements out of context. “Universally,” as it may imply, includes men as well who think “have truck so small peepee” jokes are original groundbreaking material. Sure, I don’t mean “literally every human on earth including uncontacted Amazonian tribes in Brazil and babies without the capacity for language” by “universal,” but rather “widely accepted by society” since pedantry is your purview. Yes there are some people who think neither is ok (oh hey look it’s me) but there are more people who think one is ok but not the other (and I’m guessing that’d be you, since you chose to take up the argument on the “pro women bodyshaming men” side when I dared to assert that I see more acceptance of body shaming in one direction than the other.)
As to women’s magazine’s focus on “how to get a man,” this may come as a surprise, but I’m not an editor of a woman’s magazine and I feel comfortable guessing that most men also do not edit women’s magazines. In fact most men are completely divorced from such publications be it “employed by” or “subscribed to.” I’ve never read a cosmo in my life and honestly I’d bet no woman under 30 has either, print is so dead reading is a hobby now (and one I enjoy, still not women’s magazines though.) As such I (and likely most men) have absolutely 0, I repeat 0 influence on what is contained within those glossy pages. I can’t blame women for what GQ publishes (the only “men’s magazine” I can think of so sue me) I can just “continue not reading that garbage, and pick up MAD or Mineshaft (the only good magazines I can think of) instead.” In fact many men did see an issue with all that, they still weren’t the publishers, mostly boyfriends and husbands of cosmo obsessed women that said things like “idk where the hell that magazine gets it’s bullshit,” it was widely (that better?) panned for offering crazy unsubstantiated advice like “Shake his nuts like you’re playing Yahtzee.” (Yes, that is an actual cosmo quote, these people can’t be trusted.) Comedians even have bits on it, so many it’s now hack!
Meanwhile: I have a gun and I drive a truck.
Now, that’s not true, but what was the first thing you thought of upon reading it? That I’m “clearly compensating for something?” Try posting that same sentiment somewhere else, where it isn’t clearly bait, and see what happens. Then post a pic of some ugly/fat/whatever woman on r/selfie (or somewhere equally “not bait”), and see what happens. Guarantee you’ll see one is more widely accepted.
I apologize if I took your statement out of context. But where are we getting that “more people think one is okay and not the other?” And where in any of my responses have I said anything close to “pro women body shaming men?” I have said both are cruel and not appropriate and if any of my statements have come off as anything else, I again apologize because that was not, is not, and will never be my intention. I’m trying to say that it’s going on for both. I personally do not believe the claim that now it’s okay to make fun of men, nor would I agree with that if someone was arguing that. I’m trying to say that the issues men are facing when it comes to physical judgements are the same pressures women are also dealing with.
When it comes to the women’s magazine, I did not mean to imply that men need to read those magazines, nor that they are the ones making all articles(and while print may be dead, websites, TikTok, etc are still thriving), I brought it up because a lot of articles for women, print or otherwise, were focused on how to get men and make yourself attractive to men, not about actual women’s issues. And to think that men have no influence on the media that they often curated is naive, just as it would be to say women don’t affect it either. What men are attracted to has an affect on what articles for women tend to reflect, what women get on TV, and what women are allowed to be visible. Like the whole trend of “men don’t like - insert clothing item here-.” or men not liking heavy make up. All of them? No, but it did and does happen. Now, men are also getting the “this is what it takes to be a high value man” and they don’t like it. I wouldn’t not want them to like it or be silent while that happens. I can be anti body shaming if it only applies to some people.
Just because I don’t agree with you about men getting judged more frequently or harshly than women (because I think men are just now included in this particular fray) does not mean I agree with you being shamed, judged, etc.
Also, I live in the US. Don’t get me wrong, people absolutely do judge that, but not all, and you assuming that I think you’re compensating for something is incorrect. You’ve wrote thoughtful, amicable, responses to my comments and are clearly very passionate about the issue. You were not rude, you didn’t curse me out or degrade me. That is not the behavior I associate with someone trying to compensate, and I’m sorry that people have made you feel that way (myself included if I’ve done that to you). I am also sorry to come off that I think people being cruel or judgemental to men is okay because “women deal with it to.”
Body shaming of men in current year 2024 is more acceptable to society at large than body shaming of women in current year 2024, if you’re seriously denying that you’re not paying attention or are stuck on “but it used to be-” yet we’re talking about the current “2024” year that is the one we’re in. Literally just observe or try body shaming both for yourself (for science only lol) and find out, if someone calls body shaming men out here it was probably me lol.
What I’m saying is that “Woman fat” has become an unacceptable comment in 2024, while it may have been acceptable in the past, it no longer is at least largely, yet “man with truck have small peepee,” is still largely lauded as comedic genius in 2024. I’m saying “one go down but the other go up,” which you seem to actually agree with I think.
I’m also saying that public perception of body shaming depends on the gender shamed: When men are shamed for body related things like not enough hair, fat, small wiener, or short, the majority of responses are “funny” or “truu” or “slay,” yet when women are shamed for excess hair, fat, small titti, or tall, the comments are all “body positivity,” etc. This may be the part we disagree on, but we’ll just have to keep disagreeing lol.
I’m just trying to get to the point where it doesn’t matter what gender is body shamed, there’s some consistency applied to the “don’t make fun of people for what they can’t control” bit, if that’s the direction we’re moving in.
Honestly it seems like we may agree more than disagree.
I can agree with that. I don’t think people are used to having to take men’s feelings into consideration (with the body shaming or, like, anything to be fair) the same way they do with women, and are usually less empathetic to them because of that.
It was a pleasure discussing this with you, even if we disagree on some things. I think both of are hearts are in the right place, and I can’t be mad at that. And, next time, I hope to be in the comments with you to call it out too🤝🏾
I can agree with that as well. It was indeed nice discussing with you as well, all too often comments can get too heated and it’s always nice to have a regular ol’ pleasant conversation even when we disagree a bit lol. I hope to see you there with me too! :Handshake: (I hope that text I just typed becomes an emoji lol
…nope! Oh well lol ykwim!)