Understanding is a meeting in the middle. It’s reasonable to correct the record on how you as an individual would like to be gendered. It’s not reasonable to expect all of society to drop the use of a word that is colloquially accepted as gender neutral. At a certain point, your outrage is the antisocial behavior.
Not everyone uses “guys” like that, you’re assigning way too broad of usage to it. It’s also just not important enough to die on a hill for. Just be decent human it’s not hard. Accommodate one person who asked you because it means something to them. Why is this so hard for folks to get? Do you never tailor your language to your audience?
I think the amount of people who either (1) do not know the term to be gender neutral or (2) purposefully use it as a gendered term to anger people is less than 1%, honestly.
I live in a pretty conservative area, and I’m not exactly a leftist either, and I’ve never seen guys used in any way other than just as a generic for “you all”
it’s also just not important enough to die on a hill for
Cool, so we agree it’s silly to get so strung up over it, huh? Of course people tailor their language, it happens constantly. If someone is going to go out of their way to construe a perfectly normal part of speech as me being malignant and demand that I change my behavior for their benefit I’m going to tell them to fuck off, personally. If someone is respectful and asks tactfully…sure, I’ll adjust for them. Though internally I’ll be judging them for being a snowflake.
I think you’ve completely misunderstood what everyone is saying because that’s exactly what everyone you’ve responded to, including myself, is saying that they would do.
Tailor their words for that conversation but move on to a different group of people from there. Not permanently tailoring the way they speak because it is highly unlikely that they’ll engage again.
I think it’s more that if you get annoyed at something like that, I would think you’re way too much of a hassle to be friends with long term. It’s just a matter of compatibility and the choice to filter out incompatible people in your social circle. It’s nothing personal.
You likely have no idea why that person said to stop and sometimes the right thing to do is just say “ok,” especially when the stakes are so low.
Let’s say you’re shooting off fireworks and it is scaring a neighbor. Do you tell them to get over it until they directly tell you they have PTSD from a conflict zone? Or do you just be a fucking reasonable person and stop?
Of course I would stop at their request, however if I were that person with PTSD, I wouldn’t expect the world to cater to my disabilities and strategise on how I could function in society by managing it. That’s what I currently do with my own PTSD and it makes me a stronger person for it.
Also, that’s hardly comparable to using the phrase “you guys” in a conversation. That phrase has always been gender neutral and far nicer sounding than “you people” or “you all”.
Edit: and also, yes I would have no idea on why the other party would take offence to the phrase “you guys” but I would also be under no obligation to establish a friendship with them beyond that conversation. I don’t expect someone I’ve just met to trauma dump on me and I don’t want them to.
Of course, I would correct myself in that conversation and not use the phrase “you guys” after they’ve told me not to use it, because it’s polite to do so, but that won’t stop me feeling that I can’t be myself around them.
Well, there’s a massive difference between “don’t call me a guy” and someone saying “hey guys” to a group to have one member fire back a response about gendered terms
One of these is clear stating of respectful boundaries, the other one is just offloading (and very likely speaking for/over others) to score imaginary purity points
Man if all it takes is a pretty basic language disagreement with somebody for you to not want to associate with them, you’re going to struggle to maintain a social life outside of MAGA fuckbois. And even then you’ll have to get used to them shrieking when you use the word “racist.”
Sure, but we’re talking plurals of strangers atm. “Please don’t call me a guy going forward” is a different conversation than “what you just said is stupid, mean, and wrong”.
Drag… Supposes, that’s how it would look without applying much empathy. But if someone gets called something and says it’s bad, it must be clear they don’t like it. If they’re angry, that’s a kind of upset. It means they could be hurting. Drag would understand no matter how someone phrased it.
Drag is very forgiving when a trans person is upset they’ve been misgendered. Growing up as the wrong gender is traumatic. It can literally give you cPTSD and personality disorders. Being triggered because you feel like you’re back in that situation is a completely understandable response. Drag uses gender neutral “guys”, but acknowledges that it’s a dangerous practice, and if you hurt someone then you need to own it. They don’t owe anyone politeness in that moment. If drag didn’t like that responsibility, drag wouldn’t take risks with other people’s mental health.
Why does the other persons energy matter? If someone requests not to be called something and you continue to call them that then you are kinda being a jerk.
Cause it’s rude. Like correcting grammar in a conversation. Both would be equally rude.
Nobody wants to be told that what they’ve learned and have been taught to them their whole life is now an offense. Just like nobody wants to be misgendered on purpose.
Or you could’ve simply gone “cool no worries didn’t mean anything by it” and move on not using the word instead of demanding they let you continue to do it.
I’m just going to ignore how much of a stretch that is to compare and indulge it anyway.
You know what you do when someone says something stupid like that? You don’t engage it at a table full of people unless you all know each other pretty well and you think the relationship can handle it unless you’re just kind of a rude person who doesn’t mind publicly shaming people when there is nothing at stake, which is a little weird.
Most people like that get ignored when in-person and it’s the best way to go about it. Engaging them is what they want. They want to defend their position, they want to feel persecuted, and they want to share whatever XxpatriotxX shared on YouTube the night before.
If someone asks you to stop something simple and of no consequence to you just do it out of respect. Why does everyone feel entitled to a concrete argument and being convinced before just respecting folks? It’s ridiculous.
My parents hate curse words. I curse a fuck ton. When I’m at their house, I don’t curse (well…as much). I don’t demand a sufficiently acceptable reason for not doing it any more than I don’t need someone explain to me why they want me to take my shoes off in their home. Just don’t be an ass and do it. Don’t demand an explanation like you’re some hot shit being wildly burdened.
Someone called someone “the R word” at my house in front of my kids. I just said “don’t use that word please” and that was the end of it. Didn’t talk about my kids or ableism or anything, I just said “stop please,” they just said “cool sorry” and moved on. This is just how it should be most of the time.
If someone asks you to stop something simple and of no consequence to you just do it out of respect. Why does everyone feel entitled to a concrete argument and being convinced before just respecting folks? It’s ridiculous.
What about half of the people in the comments seem to fail to understand is that the way the lady correcting OP’s language is the biggest factor.
Her saying “hey, could you please not refer to me as a guy?” is completely different from her getting angry and going off on a rant. The former situation is worth continuing the discussion, and the latter situation leads to people rightfully avoiding that lady.
The fact that you’re getting downvoted for essentially saying “just be a respectful, reasonable, and decent human being” is pretty bizarre. Like, can we just have some empathy and patience for each other?
It’s just as much not a problem for them to be offended by it as it is for you to choose your words better. Knowing that you made a choice to offend so yeah, you’re the jerk. You’re honestly making a lot more of it if you went all this distance to think you’re the one hard done by just cuz you refuse to memorize some words. That’s snowflake thinking.
Only bad actors looking for the drama go for the path of most resistance.
No, that’s different. Names occupy a different role than generic words, and you’re primed to be able to handle that. To claim that’s the same thing as replacing common words is dishonest or uninformed.
It’s not a problem until someone tells you to not refer to them as a dude or a guy. If you continue, you are just an asshole 🤷🏻
I mean I’ll be nice about it and correct to girls or ladies or whatever, but that conversation is probably over
Why? Because it’s so difficult for you to respect someone’s request that likely means way more to them than to you?
Understanding is a meeting in the middle. It’s reasonable to correct the record on how you as an individual would like to be gendered. It’s not reasonable to expect all of society to drop the use of a word that is colloquially accepted as gender neutral. At a certain point, your outrage is the antisocial behavior.
Not everyone uses “guys” like that, you’re assigning way too broad of usage to it. It’s also just not important enough to die on a hill for. Just be decent human it’s not hard. Accommodate one person who asked you because it means something to them. Why is this so hard for folks to get? Do you never tailor your language to your audience?
I think the amount of people who either (1) do not know the term to be gender neutral or (2) purposefully use it as a gendered term to anger people is less than 1%, honestly.
I live in a pretty conservative area, and I’m not exactly a leftist either, and I’ve never seen guys used in any way other than just as a generic for “you all”
Cool, so we agree it’s silly to get so strung up over it, huh? Of course people tailor their language, it happens constantly. If someone is going to go out of their way to construe a perfectly normal part of speech as me being malignant and demand that I change my behavior for their benefit I’m going to tell them to fuck off, personally. If someone is respectful and asks tactfully…sure, I’ll adjust for them. Though internally I’ll be judging them for being a snowflake.
It matters more to them than to you that’s the whole point
How does a snowflake screw in a lightbulb? They hold the bulb, and the whole world revolves around them.
Snowflake jokes are stale as fuck lmao
…
I think you’ve completely misunderstood what everyone is saying because that’s exactly what everyone you’ve responded to, including myself, is saying that they would do.
Tailor their words for that conversation but move on to a different group of people from there. Not permanently tailoring the way they speak because it is highly unlikely that they’ll engage again.
I think it’s more that if you get annoyed at something like that, I would think you’re way too much of a hassle to be friends with long term. It’s just a matter of compatibility and the choice to filter out incompatible people in your social circle. It’s nothing personal.
You likely have no idea why that person said to stop and sometimes the right thing to do is just say “ok,” especially when the stakes are so low.
Let’s say you’re shooting off fireworks and it is scaring a neighbor. Do you tell them to get over it until they directly tell you they have PTSD from a conflict zone? Or do you just be a fucking reasonable person and stop?
Of course I would stop at their request, however if I were that person with PTSD, I wouldn’t expect the world to cater to my disabilities and strategise on how I could function in society by managing it. That’s what I currently do with my own PTSD and it makes me a stronger person for it.
Also, that’s hardly comparable to using the phrase “you guys” in a conversation. That phrase has always been gender neutral and far nicer sounding than “you people” or “you all”.
Edit: and also, yes I would have no idea on why the other party would take offence to the phrase “you guys” but I would also be under no obligation to establish a friendship with them beyond that conversation. I don’t expect someone I’ve just met to trauma dump on me and I don’t want them to.
Of course, I would correct myself in that conversation and not use the phrase “you guys” after they’ve told me not to use it, because it’s polite to do so, but that won’t stop me feeling that I can’t be myself around them.
People with PTSD should absolutely be catered to the fuck are you on about? Would you say this about victims of sexual assault?
Well, there’s a massive difference between “don’t call me a guy” and someone saying “hey guys” to a group to have one member fire back a response about gendered terms
One of these is clear stating of respectful boundaries, the other one is just offloading (and very likely speaking for/over others) to score imaginary purity points
I just told you I would respect it. But I don’t view “you guys” as something divisive. So yeah I don’t want to be around those people
Man if all it takes is a pretty basic language disagreement with somebody for you to not want to associate with them, you’re going to struggle to maintain a social life outside of MAGA fuckbois. And even then you’ll have to get used to them shrieking when you use the word “racist.”
Nah I’m doing pretty ok.
Also fuck maga
Then you’re clearly not as hardline as you’re pretending to be
I’m not pretending? And I’m also not hard-line
You literally said you would just end the conversation over this like 3 comments ago.
Sure, but we’re talking plurals of strangers atm. “Please don’t call me a guy going forward” is a different conversation than “what you just said is stupid, mean, and wrong”.
Your facts are not what OP wrote, though. And in this context the facts are relevant, which is the point.
Bad red herring.
It’s the same picture?
No it really isn’t. One clearly and directly communicates a need. The other response shies away from that and insults without explaining why.
Drag… Supposes, that’s how it would look without applying much empathy. But if someone gets called something and says it’s bad, it must be clear they don’t like it. If they’re angry, that’s a kind of upset. It means they could be hurting. Drag would understand no matter how someone phrased it.
If the other party is 3, then yes. From adults I expect ability to differentiate between stating a need and throwing a tantrum.
Drag is very forgiving when a trans person is upset they’ve been misgendered. Growing up as the wrong gender is traumatic. It can literally give you cPTSD and personality disorders. Being triggered because you feel like you’re back in that situation is a completely understandable response. Drag uses gender neutral “guys”, but acknowledges that it’s a dangerous practice, and if you hurt someone then you need to own it. They don’t owe anyone politeness in that moment. If drag didn’t like that responsibility, drag wouldn’t take risks with other people’s mental health.
Or, just maybe. The person remarking is an asshole. It gives off the same energy as correcting grammar when talking with someone.
Why does the other persons energy matter? If someone requests not to be called something and you continue to call them that then you are kinda being a jerk.
Cause it’s rude. Like correcting grammar in a conversation. Both would be equally rude.
Nobody wants to be told that what they’ve learned and have been taught to them their whole life is now an offense. Just like nobody wants to be misgendered on purpose.
“Learning new things is offensive”
Big yikes
Being told you’re an idiot and everything you’ve learned is wrong in front of others is “yikes”
Or you could’ve simply gone “cool no worries didn’t mean anything by it” and move on not using the word instead of demanding they let you continue to do it.
“The earth is flat”. “Ok, cool. Didn’t mean anything by it.”
A bit hyperbolic, but that is how i imagine it sounds to older people. Perspective goes both ways.
I’m just going to ignore how much of a stretch that is to compare and indulge it anyway.
You know what you do when someone says something stupid like that? You don’t engage it at a table full of people unless you all know each other pretty well and you think the relationship can handle it unless you’re just kind of a rude person who doesn’t mind publicly shaming people when there is nothing at stake, which is a little weird.
Most people like that get ignored when in-person and it’s the best way to go about it. Engaging them is what they want. They want to defend their position, they want to feel persecuted, and they want to share whatever XxpatriotxX shared on YouTube the night before.
Is this a personal attack?
Sir, you’re an officer of the law. You can’t help but be who you are. It’s ok to own it.
There is a time and a place for it. Just not when you want someone to agree with or like you. 🙂
If someone asks you to stop something simple and of no consequence to you just do it out of respect. Why does everyone feel entitled to a concrete argument and being convinced before just respecting folks? It’s ridiculous.
My parents hate curse words. I curse a fuck ton. When I’m at their house, I don’t curse (well…as much). I don’t demand a sufficiently acceptable reason for not doing it any more than I don’t need someone explain to me why they want me to take my shoes off in their home. Just don’t be an ass and do it. Don’t demand an explanation like you’re some hot shit being wildly burdened.
Someone called someone “the R word” at my house in front of my kids. I just said “don’t use that word please” and that was the end of it. Didn’t talk about my kids or ableism or anything, I just said “stop please,” they just said “cool sorry” and moved on. This is just how it should be most of the time.
What about half of the people in the comments seem to fail to understand is that the way the lady correcting OP’s language is the biggest factor.
Her saying “hey, could you please not refer to me as a guy?” is completely different from her getting angry and going off on a rant. The former situation is worth continuing the discussion, and the latter situation leads to people rightfully avoiding that lady.
The fact that you’re getting downvoted for essentially saying “just be a respectful, reasonable, and decent human being” is pretty bizarre. Like, can we just have some empathy and patience for each other?
No I demand an explanation NOW for why I can’t call someone something
It’s just as much not a problem for them to be offended by it as it is for you to choose your words better. Knowing that you made a choice to offend so yeah, you’re the jerk. You’re honestly making a lot more of it if you went all this distance to think you’re the one hard done by just cuz you refuse to memorize some words. That’s snowflake thinking.
Only bad actors looking for the drama go for the path of most resistance.
Changing the language you intuitively use is hard
So is remembering somebody’s name but you somehow manage to do that
No, that’s different. Names occupy a different role than generic words, and you’re primed to be able to handle that. To claim that’s the same thing as replacing common words is dishonest or uninformed.
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