Cory Doctorow explaining why he endorses the “Free Our Feeds” initiative (Lemmy discussion)
During the Napster wars, the record labels seriously pissed off millions of internet users when they sued over 19,000 music fans, mostly kids, but also grannies, old people, and dead people.
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One thing everyone agreed on was how disgusted we all were with the labels. What we didn’t agree on was what to do about it. A lot of us wanted to reform copyright – say, by creating a blanket license for internet music so that artists could get paid directly. This was the systemic approach.Another group – call them the “individualists” – wanted a boycott. Just stop buying and listening to music from the major labels. Every dollar you spend with a label is being used to fund a campaign of legal terror. Merely enjoying popular music makes you part of the problem.
Here’s what I would say when people told me we should all stop listening to popular music: “If members of your popular movement are not allowed to listen to popular music, your movement won’t be very popular.”
We weren’t going to make political change by creating an impossible purity test (“Ew, you listen to music from a major label? God, what’s wrong with you?”). I mean, for one thing, a lot of popular music is legitimately fantastic and makes peoples’ lives better. Popular movements should strive to increase their members’ joy, not demand their deprivation. Again, not merely because this is a nice thing to do for people, but also because it’s good tactics to make participation in the thing you’re trying to do as joyous as possible.
[…] When social media is federated, then you can leave a server without leaving your friends. Think of it as being similar to changing cell-phone companies. When you switch from Verizon to T-Mobile, you keep your number, you keep your address book and you keep your friends, who won’t even know you switched networks unless you tell them.
There’s no reason social media couldn’t work this way. You should be able to leave Facebook or Twitter for Mastodon, Bluesky, or any other service and still talk with the people you left behind, provided they still want to talk with you.
That’s how the Fediverse – which Mastodon is part of – works already. You can switch from one Mastodon server to another, and all the people you follow and who follow you will just move over to that new server. That means that if the person or company or group running your server goes sour, you aren’t stuck making a choice between the people you love who connect to you on that server, and the pain of dealing with whatever bullshit the management is throwing off.
We could make that stronger! Data protection laws like the EU’s GDPR and California’s CCPA create a legal duty for online services to hand over your data on demand. Arguably, these laws already require your Mastodon server’s management to give you the files you need to switch from one server to another, but that could be clarified. Handing these files over to users on demand is really straightforward – even a volunteer running a small server for a few friends will have no trouble living up to this obligation. It’s literally just a minute’s work for each user.
Another way to make this stronger is through governance. Many of the great services that defined the old, good internet were run by “benevolent dictators for life.” This worked well, but failed so badly. Even if the dictator for life stayed benevolent, that didn’t make them infallible. The problem of a dictatorship isn’t just malice – it’s also human frailty. For a service to remain good over long timescales, it needs accountable, responsive governance. That’s why all the most successful BDFL services (like Wikipedia) transitioned to community-managed systems.
There, too, Mastodon shines. Mastodon’s founder Eugen Rochko has just explicitly abjured his role as “ultimate decision-maker” and handed management over to a nonprofit.
I love using Mastodon and I have a lot of hope for its future. I wish I was as happy with Bluesky, which was founded with the promise of federation, and which uses a clever naming scheme that makes it even harder for server owners to usurp your identity. But while Bluesky has added many, many technically impressive features, they haven’t delivered on the long-promised federation.
Bluesky sure seems like a lot of fun! They’ve pulled tens of millions of users over from other systems, and by all accounts, they’ve all having a great time. The problem is that without federation, all those users are vulnerable to bad decisions by management (perhaps under pressure from the company’s investors) or by a change in management (perhaps instigated by investors if the current management refuses to institute extractive measures that are good for the investors but bad for the users). Federation is to social media what fire-exits are to nightclubs: a way for people to escape if the party turns deadly.
So what’s the answer? Well, around Mastodon, you’ll hear a refrain that reminds me a lot of the Napster wars: “People who are enjoying themselves on Bluesky are wrong to do so, because it’s not federated and the only server you can use is run by a VC-backed for-profit. They should all leave that great party – there’s no fire exits!”
This is the social media version of “To be in our movement, you have to stop listening to popular music.” Sure, those people shouldn’t be crammed into a nightclub that has no fire exits. But thankfully, there is an alternative to being the kind of scold who demands that people leave a great party, and being the kind of callous person who lets tens of millions of people continue to risk their lives by being stuck in a fire-trap.
We can install our own fire-exits in Bluesky.
Yesterday, an initiative called “Free Our Feeds” launched, with a set of goals for “billionaire-proofing” social media. One of those goals is to add the long-delayed federation to Bluesky. I’m one of the inaugural endorsers for this, because installing fire exits for Bluesky isn’t just the right thing to do, it’s also good tactics.
Here’s why: if a body independent of the Bluesky corporation implements its federation services, then we ensure that its fire exits are beyond the control of its VCs. That means that if they are ever tempted in future to brick up the fire-exits, they won’t be able to. This isn’t a hypothetical risk. When businesses start to enshittify their services, they fully commit themselves to blocking anything that makes it easy to leave those services.
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We can do better than begging people to leave a party they’re enjoying; we can install our own fucking fire exits. Sure, maybe that means that a lot of those users will stay on the proprietary platform, but at least we’ll have given them a way to leave if things go horribly wrong.After all, there’s no virtue in software freedom. The only thing worth caring about is human freedom. The only reason to value software freedom is if it sets humans free.
If I had my way, all those people enjoying themselves on Bluesky would come and enjoy themselves in the Fediverse. But I’m not a purist. If there’s a way to use Bluesky without locking myself to the platform, I will join the party there in a hot second. And if there’s a way to join the Bluesky party from the Fediverse, then goddamn I will party my ass off.
I feel like a lot of what “Free Our Feeds” is trying to achieve has already been done by @snarfed.org@snarfed.org with @bsky.brid.gy@bsky.brid.gy. Supporting Bridgy in order to make all Bluesky accounts open for bridging by default would leap us pretty fast towards achieving these goals, by making any microblogging platform on the fediverse a genuine alternative.
Instead they need $30 million to develop yet another thing.
If Bluesky users want to fund this, it should at least safeguard that Bluesky remains committed to leaving AT Proto running. As long as they keep that running, a bridge between the Fediverse and Bluesky remains possible. Which is all I personally need, so it’s all fine by me.
But what a waste of $30 million it would be.
The likely answer to this is that there will always have to be a large corporation at the heart of Bluesky/ATProto, and the network will have to rely on that corporation to do the work of abuse mitigation, particularly in terms of illegal content and spam. This may be a good enough solution for Bluesky’s purposes, but on the economics alone it’s going to be a centralized system that relies on trusting centralized authorities.
Yeah, I do think Doctorow has missed the mark here. @tante put it better than I could:
It’s trying to raise money (at least 4 Mio and up to 30 Mio USD) for ATProto (the protocol at the core of Bluesky) so “the community” can standardize the thing and “build stuff”. Plus the project wants to run a second “Relay” (which is the chokepoint that centralizes Bluesky at the moment). Edit/Addition: The fact that just running another Relay leads to costs in the millions should make people wonder if this is the right approach for a better social media infrastructure that does not rely on big organizations.
Okay, but isn’t that what the Bluesky Public Benefit Corporation (the corporation that owns Bluesky and employs the people working on the ATproto protocol) wanted to enable/do? They already got millions in funding (some from sketchy Blockchain companies). Now some diffuse external entity collects more from random people, from “the community”. And not a bit but a lot more. What do the people donating money get for their investment? Stake in the Bluesky corporation? [Checks notes] Nope. Nothing.
The 9 custodians consist of a whole bunch of AI people, some Mozilla folks (same thing) and the director of the Social Web foundation. […]
It’s just presented in a weird way with a whole lot of “give us a lot of money and we’ll make amazing stuff happen” and in the end a bunch of AI grifters get some startups “that build upon AT proto” funded.
Well put, thanks
as i wrote in another thread:
Content addressability is absolutely essential for building something that will last, and BlueSky gets that right. Decoupling the many responsibilities which an ActivityPub instance operator has (especially for identity) is also essential, i think, and while BlueSky’s identity solution is less than ideal it’s much better than ActivityPub and I expect it to improve.
If you’re interested in the topic you probably want to also read the followup post from the same author (after reading the reply linked there from someone on the BlueSky team).
Christine’s analysis is by far the best I’ve read on the topic, but I think she is too dismissive of the possibility that people will actually build things using ATP in a manner more like ActivityPub (where there doesn’t need to be a global view). It’s also possible/likely that ActivityPub will eventually evolve to adopt content addressability (Christine actually built a proof-of-concept of doing that years ago, linked in her blog post, but there doesn’t appear to be any recent progress in that direction), and decouple identity from responsibility for data availability, and adopt something like BlueSky’s composable moderation.
Given their respective advantages over the other, i’m pretty sure that both ATP and AP will make changes which make them more like the other in the coming years.
Where are the relay and PDS not operated by Bluesky that people can use to register today?
i’m not aware of anybody who allows public signups and is interoperating with bsky.app yet (besides Bridgy Fed which will create an ATP identity for your ActivityPub identity), but I’m pretty sure it is possible because I follow people there who appear to be doing it for themselves.
see also my reply to you in another thread.
I just skimmed through it. Damn, and people say that the Fediverse concept of instances is confusing 😄
Let’s keep it short: once people will be able to register on a version of the platform (whatever piece of the PDS, DID, Relay that means) managed by other people then Bluesky, than trust towards ATProto will be higher.
As of now, it’s very low.
Also, see the issue of the ATProto scalability in another comment: https://feddit.org/post/6858224/4156121
There is also second part of this article (a response to BlueSky response): https://dustycloud.org/blog/re-re-bluesky-decentralization/
Thank you for this, very interesting. I skimmed through it
But we aren’t actually running networks of 26 users. We are running networks of millions of users. What would happen if we had a million self-hosted users and five new users were added to the network? Zooming out, once again, the message passing system simply has five new messages sent. Under the public shared heap model, it is 10,000,025 new messages sent! For adding five new self-hosted users! (And that’s even just with our simplified model of only sending one message per day per user!)
Maybe this sounds silly, if you’re a Bluesky enthusiast. I could hear you saying: well Christine, we really aren’t planning on everyone self hosting. Yes, but how many nodes can participate in the system at all? The fediverse currently hosts around 27,000 servers (many more users, but let’s focus on servers). Adding just 5 more servers would be a blip in terms of the affect on the network. Adding 5 more servers to an ATProto ecosystem with that many fully participating nodes would be an exhausting number of additional messages sent on the network. ATProto does not scale wide: it’s a liability to add more fully participating nodes onto the network. Meaningfully self-hosting ATProto is a risk to the ATProto network, there is active reason to disincentivize it for those already participating. But it’s not just that. Spreading things around so that more full Bluesky-like nodes are present is something server operators will have to come to discourage if they don’t want their already existing high hosting costs to not skyrocket.
Unless ATProto is fully open and has been proven to be operable for a relay that’s community-maintained, this largely smells like yet another “make the community endlessly chase the tail of corporate” scheme, which tracks well since from what I’m reading the people behind this are a bunch of AIbros and… Mozilla, who apparently enjoy endlessly chasing Chrome’s tail.
And in the end, endless tail chasing in IT leads to justabout the same thing we saw XMPP Googlification lead: death.
One thing about Cory’s books is that there is always some extremely cringe party section with some rather forced romance part screaming “how do you do fellow kids?” even to me, a middle aged guy himself.
The above is also cringe, even though the argument has some (limited) merit. Look, Cory… just admit some rich friend of yours talked you into signing up for this on the last silicon vally party you attended. We all make mistakes like that some time 🤷♂️