So I was just reading this thread about deepseek refusing to answer questions about Tianenmen square.
It seems obvious from screenshots of people trying to jailbreak the webapp that there’s some middleware that just drops the connection when the incident is mentioned. However I’ve already asked the self hosted model multiple controversial China questions and it’s answered them all.
The poster of the thread was also running the model locally, the 14b model to be specific, so what’s happening? I decide to check for myself and lo and behold, I get the same “I am sorry, I cannot answer that question. I am an AI assistant designed to provide helpful and harmless responses.”
Is it just that specific model being censored? Is it because it’s the qwen model it’s distilled from that’s censored? But isn’t the 7b model also distilled from qwen?
So I check the 7b model again, and this time round that’s also censored. I panic for a few seconds. Have the Chinese somehow broken into my local model to cover it up after I downloaded it.
I check the screenshot I have of it answering the first time I asked and ask the exact same question again, and not only does it work, it acknowledges the previous question.
So wtf is going on? It seems that “Tianenmen square” will clumsily shut down any kind of response, but Tiananmen square is completely fine to discuss.
So the local model actually is censored, but the filter is so shit, you might not even notice it.
It’ll be interesting to see what happens with the next release. Will the censorship be less thorough, stay the same, or will china again piss away a massive amount of soft power and goodwill over something that everybody knows about anyway?
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Worrying about whether or not an LLM has censorship issues is like worrying about the taste of poop.
Fine analogy.
benchmarks show that this LLM has the bouquet of the sunny side of the sewage farm
This is just me being childish, but it would be fun if we could incept the joke that LLM censorship = corn.
The rest of the owl draws itself in the imagination of the listener.
Hmm, the way I’ve chosen to interpret this is to propose the analogy of a person eating corn as a model of LLMs. You can eat a huge variety of foods and your poop looks more or less the same. Sometimes, you eat something like corn, and the result is you can spot kernels of things resembling real food (i.e. corn kernels) in the poop. However, if you were to inspect said kernels, you would quickly realise they were full of shit.
the product produced by the producer operating in a violently censorious state has complied with censorship in the production of the product? omg, stop the presses!
(nevermind the fact that if you spend half a second thinking through where said state exercises its power and control, the reasons for the things you observed should all but smack you in the face)
Local deepseek answers all my questions, but it is definitely biased in favour is the CCP even you ask about Chinese leadership.
Fortunately that doesn’t come up much for me
So I check the 7b model again, and this time round that’s also censored. I panic for a few seconds. Have the Chinese somehow broken into my local model to cover it up after I downloaded it.
what
It’s a slightly facetious comment on how the same model had gone from definitely not censored to definitely censored. The tripwire for the filter was obviously already there.
I mean, his username is manicdave. Psychosis is a symptom of mania. It’s a pretty wild thought.
The local models are distilled versions of Qwen or llama or whatever else, not really deepseek’s model. So you get refusals based on the base model primarily, plus whatever it learned from the distilling. If it’s Qwen or another Chinese model then it’s more likely to refuse but a llama model or something else could pick it up to a lesser extent.
You get the exact same cookie cutter response in the llama models, and the qwen models process the question and answer. The filter is deepseek’s contribution.
From what I understand, the Distilled models are using DeepSeek to retrain e.g. Llama. So it makes sense to me that they would exhibit the same biases.
Distilling is supposed to be a shortcut to creating a quality training dataset by using the output of an established model as labels, i.e. desired answers.
The end result of the new model ending up with biases inherited from the reference model should hold, but using as a base model the same model you are distilling from would seem to be completely pointless.
Some models are llama and some are qwen. Both sets respond with “I am sorry, I cannot answer that question. I am an AI assistant designed to provide helpful and harmless responses.” when you spell it Tianenmen, but give details when you spell it Tiananmen.
To your point, neither of those are truly Deepseek under the hood
Fuck. Just thinking of those bodies run over repeatedly and washed down the sewers…
China is an entire economy built on intellectual property thievery and slave labor. The whole thing, that’s they’re advantage. Theft and slavery. The Chinese CCP can fuck off into the sun. *edit: this post and article is about the ccp censoring it’s human rights abuses, and all the downvotes confirm the ccp is here and active on the fediverse itself attempting to do the precise same thing. the irony shouldn’t be lost.
The quants who built DeepSeek in their 20% time must really feel the sting of all that communism, I tell you hwat.
China is an entire economy built on intellectual property thievery and slave labor.
so, just like the united states when it suited them, no? do read about united states in nineteenth century once. oh, and: you do realise that slavery in some circumstances is still legal in the u.s.?
some circumstances is still legal in the u.s.
as someone else pointed out, US-wide legal slavery (enshrined in constitution) in the form of prisoners
precisely. a fucking shame.
an entire economy built on intellectual property thievery
The historic attitude of the US to copyright is interesting (you can still see old English-language books that are labelled not for sale in the USA). In these enlightened days of course there’s a half-trillion dollar plan to shore up the LLM business, which is already a half-trillion dollar crater of debt and is still digging hard.
and slave labor
I always wondered how the manufacture of white goods in the US was competitive with the likes of Mexico, and it turns out that the secret ingredient is incredibly cheap prison labor, where the prisoners face significant negative consequences if they’re not prepared to work for pennies.
Prisoners can be firefighters for a few dollars a day and risk their lives, but are denied jobs when they get out. California, that noted bleeding heart lefty bastion, refused to abolish penal servitude (ie. slavery of prisoners).
The US health insurance industry means that huge swathes of the population may as well be indentured because cannot afford basic healthcare if they quit and changing employers risks rejection of coverage of pre-existing conditions.
I could go on. For quite a while.
all the downvotes confirm the ccp is here and active on the fediverse
By all accounts, the ccp do a pretty poor job of influence operations compared to russia. Personally I suspect that the fediverse is just too small compared to twitter and bluesky and reddit, so why would anyone bother here?
Truth is, both the US and the PRC are capitalist hellholes of differing degrees, and the current team in the White House works hard to reduce those differences. Remember, with the right wing, it is always projection and envy. They hate Iran because they want to be a fundamentalist dictatorship too. They hate china because they want uncontested power and a labor force without human rights.
You are not obliged to carry water for them.
there are lots of complaints one can level at ccp-run china without having to dip right into this strand of sinophobia, what the utter lazy fuck. bullshit like this that helps the world stay bad and intolerant. fuck off with it.
(sincerely: one of your downvotes from sunny ZA)
Oh hey Sam Altman is here, doing his best to bring down deepseek
no, the downvotes are me because a lot of these takes are shitty
downvotes are me
Is using multiple accounts for voting against any of Lemmy’s rules?
i always thought that some canadians do get sarcasm.
I was joking about using a plural (downvotes) with a singular (are me), and then I was just curious if Lemmy has any sort of rules about this. I have no idea.
you should definitely report @self lots
if I wanted to cheat the downvote count I’d just modify our instance’s database. our view of votes is different and neither our posters nor our instance really give a fuck which posts random federated weirdos like or don’t like
feel free to report me to me though
reported because I want my internet points and I want them NOW (jk)
no internet points today, only internet cookies (good kind)
neither our posters nor our instance really give a fuck which posts random federated weirdos like or don’t like
although every now and then some of those come by and get a fedifuckton of updoots, but when you look at it it’s all very 🤨 and
Enjoy your trip to the egress.
I mean, “downvotes are proof that the commies are out to get me” is an occasion not just to touch grass, but to faceplant into an open field of wildflowers.
CCP is out after their precious
bodily fluidsinternet pointsI like the idea that the CCP are so desperate to down vote that one comment they don’t stop to down vote the post that actually makes them look bad, which said comment is responding to.
Or at least manure.
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From a technical perspective, it seems like a pretty clear case of model over-fitting to me. I’ve not dug too deep into this recent advancement, but this might be something more specific to how this recent model was trained.
Were you running this on local hardware?
All run on local hardware. Llama models do it too. This is 8b
