- cross-posted to:
- localllama@sh.itjust.works
- cross-posted to:
- localllama@sh.itjust.works
further details:
Meanwhile, the French financing will include commitments from the United Arab Emirates, American and Canadian investments funds and French companies like telecommunications firms Iliad and Orange, and aerospace and defense group Thales
A few days before France’s AI Action Summit, which kicked off on Monday, the UAE said it would invest between 30 billion euros and 50 billion euros in the construction of a one-gigawatt AI data center in France as part of a campus focused on the technology’s development.
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/02/10/frances-answer-to-stargate-macron-announces-ai-investment.html
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Then they can ask the chatbot how to get the country out of debt.
Believe it or not this is part of it, can’t make money to pay down debt if no one wants your stuff and you’re years behind everyone else
Ah, so this is why they can’t afford the old, more generous pensions? Got it.
macron is exhausting
Cool…cool… can’t wait to ask the 100 billion euro ai to write me a funny… Now do a 100 billion to fight against climate change please 💔
Or just 10 billion into the school system? Please? Anything?
Serious question and not trying to be funny, but how is AI going to solve climate change? We already know the answer, but the world is too greedy to do anything about it. As a matter of fact, AI will worsen climate change since more power is needed for it to write couple of sentences.
I think you misread their comment, they’re asking for a separate €100 billion in climate spending.
Investing money in ways to lower the retirement age, or at least stopping it to get higher.
Or give money to nvidia.
The choice is clear for this great leader.
Labor automation kind of is a way to lower the retirement age.
Of course how you use it is a matter of politics.
Will this be done through funding colleges and universities, doctorates and other publicly funded projects and initiatives?
If so, good. AI might be a good tool, after a long, curated, legally directed and supervised, period of investigation, to create safe tools for public use.
If not, and this money is to be thrown out to private companies, with little to no oversight, it is pure waste of resources, badly needed to fund other social sectors.
Looks like it is comparable to the US Stargate announcement, the money is coming from private companies and going into private investment, which is amazing, I wish France24 had been a bit more specific:
Meanwhile, the French financing will include commitments from the United Arab Emirates, American and Canadian investments funds and French companies like telecommunications firms Iliad and Orange, and aerospace and defense group Thales
A few days before France’s AI Action Summit, which kicked off on Monday, the UAE said it would invest between 30 billion euros and 50 billion euros in the construction of a one-gigawatt AI data center in France as part of a campus focused on the technology’s development.
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/02/10/frances-answer-to-stargate-macron-announces-ai-investment.html
European companies investing in Europe AND into leading edge technologies? Crazy
See that bandwagon over there, I am going to jump on it.
But everyone already is on it.
Merde.
Oh FFS.
I’m not a big fan of Macron, but in all honesty, “the genie’s out of the bottle” and we need some way to protect ourselves and the news media from ANY “foreign AI” influences.
As long as the European countries stay true to their guidelines, this should just be considered as a necessity.
Macron, you stupid slut, there’s been nothing but news for the past month about how cheap you can build a competitor to the former top models.
Heheh, but reportedly, the hedge fund that owns Deepseek has 1.6 billion worth of servers. Plus they need to pay electricity, employees… and researchers and computer people often get a decent salary. That makes me think at least a few billions is the correct amount… If we want to do research on the level Deepseek does.
Building a cheaper model that’s not as good as the top AI models is not the best way to build AI models, cheaper yes, but Deepseek isn’t the best AI model out there, it still gets beat by Googles/Claudes/OpenAI etc
A better way would be to combine the Deepseek training optimisations with raw power of Americas/nvidias hardware
We’re still at an early stage with AI, there’s nothing to suggest we’re anywhere near the end of Jevons paradox
Sometimes Claude Haiku (which has few billion parameters) knows things that ChatGPT doesn’t.
both have no clue.
Are you blind? There are so many things suggesting AI is a past thing already.
Most importantly there is no good use for it.
Just like Bitcoin all companies are trying to shoehorn it in shit products and making them shittier.
Eu should not built AI but try to regulate it and protect the environment from it.
Heya!
Are you blind? There are so many things suggesting AI is a past thing already.
?? Really like what? I must be blind, Deepseek just made GLOBAL headlines, like my own local logan radio station mentioned it on its news the other day!
The Paris AI summit is happening right now:
On 10 and 11 February 2025, France will host the Artificial Intelligence (AI) Action Summit, gathering at the Grand Palais, Heads of State and Government, leaders of international organizations, CEOs of small and large companies, representatives of academia, non-governmental organizations, artists and members of civil society.
https://www.elysee.fr/en/sommet-pour-l-action-sur-l-ia
It’s being held at the Grand Palais which is very fancy :)
If you’re seeing something to suggest AI “is a past thing already” feel free to let me know
Making headlines is not a proof of quality. It’s just the latest buzz word. You should be less influenced by trends but more by real results.
Btw, I’ve participated to this kind of summit, even as speaker. These events are more a marketing and lobbying tool for consultant firms than being a real breakthrough event on the technology.
They did the same for the sovereign cloud years ago. Lot of money (our taxes) given, fancy events, fancy speeches. Concrete results: still waiting.
And yes, this ML training already show it’s limitations (hence the thing of the past remark). Until recently, you could improve the quality of the answer by providing more training data. But now, they’ve reached the limit as no more data can be given.
It’s just a matter of time before the bubble explode.
Hey, the results of the sovereign cloud are concrete:
Your data doesn’t belong to you, and can be taken away or spied on at any moment as your government demands.
For a company, the choice are today: AWS or Microsoft. I would prefer an EU version (of being spied). It was pitched as the next big step, like this IA initiative today… Still waiting…
You should be less influenced by trends but more by real results.
I just used it 30 seconds ago for comparing export data: https://aussie.zone/post/17570399/14730920
and last night for French language practice with https://morpheem.org/fr-en
and https://chat.mistral.ai/chat earlier today for putting together a bunch of keyalgo’s and macs into an SSH command to get into my router
and https://lmstudio.ai/ with any one of these for javascript practice:
What a coincidence, I use it to learn German and it makes mistakes.
I also use it for programming and with anything more complicated it makes mistakes.
And about the command creation, it is laughable to waste this kind of energy on this easy of a task.
I do not say it should be perfect, but if I spend more time debugging it’s code than it would take to write my own.
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And about the command creation, it is laughable to waste this kind of energy on this easy of a task.
You better watch out or I’ll generate another image
Deepseak did show it could be done cheaply but imagine if you could take their optimisations and throw more power behind it (ie: buy a fuck tone of GPUs that the Chinese dont officially have access to)
Could work, the EU should pursue AI independence else it will continue its slide into irrelevance. Glad France is stepping up to the plate on this
My taxes at work to fund shitty generators. People around me will cheer for this since they are not working in the programming industry and don’t know how it’s yet another way to lower the quality of all that we’ve done so far. We’re fucked.
Investors will pump 109 billion euros into artificial intelligence (AI) projects in France in the coming years,
It will be private investment, venture capitalists, that provide the money and extract the data and wealth. All Macron is doing is giving it the official seal of approval from the government. He might relax some rules and make it easier to invest but your tax Euros are safe.
People around me will cheer for this since they are not working in the programming industry
I don’t know how you can say this when programming is one of the best uses for AI
Eh, copilot is still more miss than hit whenever I use it. It’s probably equally dogshit for other uses as well unless your goal is to just generate bullshit and you need to hit a specific word count.
As a senior dev, I have no use for it in my workflow. The only purpose it would serve for me is to reduce the amount of typing I do. I spend about 5-10% of my time actually writing code. The rest of my dev time is spent in architecting, debugging, testing, or documenting. LLMs aren’t really good at most of those things once you move past the most superficial levels of complexity. Besides, I don’t actually want something to reduce the amount I’m typing. If I’m typing too much and I’m getting annoyed then it’s a sure sign that I’ve done something bad. If I’m writing boilerplate then it’s time to write an abstraction to eliminate that. If I’m writing repetitive tests then it’s a sign I need to move to a property based testing framework like Hypothesis. If the LLM spits all of this out for me, I will end up writing code that is harder to understand and maintain.
LLMs are fine for learning and junior positions where you’ll have more experienced folks reviewing code, but it just is not that helpful past a certain point.
Also, this is probably a small thing, but I have yet to find an LLM that writes anything other than shitty, terrible shell scripts. Please for the love of God don’t use an LLM to write shell scripts. If you must, then please pass the results through shellcheck and fix all of the issues there.
I’ve seen it mainly used to assist with python scripts which work well not sure on how well it does shell scripts
Python is my primary language. For the way I write code and solve problems, it’s the language where I need the least help from an LLM. Python lets you write code that is incredibly concise while still being easy to read. There’s more of a case to be made for something like Go, since it seems like every single god damned function call ends up being
variable, err := someFuckingShit()and then aif err!=niland manually handling it instead of having nice exception handling. Even there, my IDE does that for me without requiring a computationally expensive LLM to do the work.Like, some people have a more conversational development style and I guess LLMs work well for them. I end up constantly context switching between code review mode and writing code mode which is incredibly disruptive.
Heh for me even the newest models like the new Claude are only really useful when I did the thinking and the initial code writing, and i ask it to simplify it or to make it use more efficient libraries/features. Because when asking it to do my work it produces shit, and im very junior level
yeah it’s definitely an assistant not a cheap developer… or is it :O
Devin just came to take your software job… will code for $8/hr https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhIm-Dk1pzk /s
I’m learning javascript and love it, so much easier to query Mistral/Qwen/Deepseek Distilled than scrolling through endless search results hoping someone ran into the same problem I did
I also run the AI models in LM Studio on my own machine so I’m happy with that as well, I try to self host where I can
I know it can’t take my job because I tried to make it do my job. Spoiler, it can’t. And that’s because most jobs aren’t doing things that have been done so often that Claude has an example in its training data set. If your job is that basic then yes, an AI will take it from you. Most of the programming job is actually solving a problem within the context of the codebase, not the coding itself. I am working with old and archaic technology from the 60s to the 90s and let me tell you, using the official doc is way more factual than asking any AI model about information because it will start spewing bullshit after the second prompt
A lot of comments in that YouTube thread for Devin are not positive.
Every time I try to use it it hallucinates bugs. It’s a waste of time for me.
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Sorry but no.
It’s good when what you are trying to do has been done in the past by thousand of people (thanks to the free training data). But it’s really bad for new use case. After all it’s a glorified and expensive auto-complete tool trained on code they parsed. It’s not magic, it’s math.
But you don’t get intelligence, creativity from these tools. It’s math! Math is the least creative domain on earth. Since when being a programmer is just typing portion of code from boilerplate / examples from internet?
It’s the logical thinking, taking into account all the parameters and constraints, breaking problems into piece of code, checking it, testing it, deploying it, supporting it.
Ok, programming goal is to solve a problem. But usually not all the parameters of the problem can be reduced to its mathematical form.
IA are far from being able to do that and the ratio gain/cost is not proven at all. These companies are so committed to AI (in term of money invested) that THEY MUST make you use their AI products, whatever its quality. They even use a marketing term to hide their product bad answer: hallucinations. Hallucination is just a fancy word to not say: totally wrong.
Do you find normal to buy a solution that never produces 100% good results (more around 20% of failure)?
In my industry, this IA trend (pushed mainly from managers not knowing what really is programming and of course “AI”) generate a lot of bad quality code from our junior devs. And it’s not something i want to push in production.
In fact, a lot of PoC around ML never goes from the R&D phase to the real production. It’s too risky for the business (as human life could be impacted).
And on what EU hardware it will run?
In the AI FACTORIES!
https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/policies/ai-factories
…In terms of actual chips probably nvidia…
Yep, and that’s a biggly problem. If EU AI becomes a threat (or perceived threat) to US economic and other interests (and especially when orange is in charge), they would slap tariffs at those at least. If not forbid export.
100% agreed, it’s funny because Europe has ARM and ASML, Taiwan is cool with the west and can produce chips, you even technically have a GlobalFoundries fabrication plants in Dresden so you can design and produce the chips, design the underlying instruction set but for some reason Europe just can’t put the whole thing together into a competitive product
I’d certainly hope for RISC-V. Perhaps now that we have a little bit more of an incentive, we will make some progress.
The EU just doesn’t have any companies that can put together something that can compete. CPUs and GPUs have been around for a while and the technical knowledge and patents these companies have gathered is basically insurmountable.
Graphcore is a startup in the UK that has been trying to get into the ai processor market for a few years but even though they got a load of money their chips have not been competitive (if they were able to get any out the door).
Arm could feasibly do it (given they already make the CPU/GPU designs) but their business model is selling the base designs to other companies. If they started to make their own chips then those that buy from ARM (Qualcomm, mediatech…) might look to developing their own risk-V chips
Imo, I think the EU should try and make a company similar in style to what happened with Airbus. Combine a bunch of companies together across the union, give them money and contracts and let them cook. Seems to me the only way to enter this kind of market.
An Airbus style company would be awesome, I’m absolutely certain after Trumps latest round of insanity there’s a lot of countries that would like some supply chain diversity with EU chips to ensure China or USA can’t rattle them too hard
Because the chips in question for AI are made in Taiwan and nowhere else. The fabs you see on US or EU soils are few generation behind. It will takes decades to be back (if possible) at the same level than Taiwan. And it cost a lot of investment. Ask Intel, they started that many years ago and still constructing the Fab as we speak. And it’s not even the latest generation Fab.
Yes it would take a lot of effort, the EU certainly has the money but seems content at the moment to throw it at America
But outside of TSMC it looks like just Samsung competing in the space, as you said Intel miles behind and AMD sold off all it’s fabs
Not sure how it is going, but Chinese are also pouring a ton of money into bleeding edge class processes by using an alternative technology than ASML (for obvious reasons). Will try to find the link somebody posted.
This world is hella fucking retarded
Ah yes, politics as a driving force for technological innovation. This time it’ll work. 😒
I think the saddest thing here is that Europe has no capital markets union where it’s own private companies should be putting this money in
Europe will always be behind while it’s more difficult to raise funds and do business
This AI is just the latest thing, who knows what else Europe will soon fall behind in
That, I think, is a symptom not a cause.
The cause is societal: the EU thinks that innovation should come top down. By giving established corporations subsidies, and a large administration that steers everyone every step of the way. To make sure nobody does anything out of the ordinary.
That works if you want to improve car crash safety by 5%. But, ofcourse, that doesn’t work for true, novel ideas. Concensus being antagonistic to novelty.
And it’s not solely a “bad politicians” problem. A majority of Europeans are simply afraid of change, want their 9-to-5 job to look exactly the same for their whole life. The elected reflect their electorate.
Too bad the world changes regardless of you participating.
That is why Europe also has to be on the forefront of wellfair and social protection : there is a lot less risk into innovating if losing your job is less of an issue and if it preserves your ability to spend thus avoiding a hard recession. That’s something EU countries are better at than the US and on which it should capitalise (no pun intended).
That’s something EU countries are better at than the US and on which it should capitalise
What does that look like?
In France, where I live, good unemployement (keeping arround 80% of your previous revenues during a year or two) and health benefits (100% coverage if you have a, relatively cheap, additional individual insurance). Which has the added benefit of keeping medecine prices pretty low (ie insulin is free for diabetics here and doesn’t cost much if you pay for it yourself).
It should, and could, be even better if they trusted beneficiaries a bit more, and were not constantly harrasing them into accepting shity jobs.
When you earn unemployement benefits, you still pay taxes and the rest of the money you spend keeps the national economy running (which, in turn, also turn in taxes) so financing it isn’t necessarely an issue and hasn’t been for decades (even without taxing the 10% wealthiest who manage to mostly avoid it and thus, don’t contribute. While their wealth doubled in the last 20 years, taking inflation into account).
The constant political fight arround those spendings is mostly about the morality of “assisting” unemployed and poor families not an economical balance matter.
That I know, I live in Belgium.
I wonder what successful capitalisation of that would look like?
One way would be to higher EU members’ financial contribution to it’s budget in proportion to their lack of wellfairness. I also frequently dream of tariffs on extra-EU imports on the same criteria, thus also preventing so called “social dumping”, modern slavery and exploitation. Which in turn would make our own production more competitive and enable better salaries overall.
Of course, a lot of goods would get more expensive, but we would finaly pay a fair price (rewarding those who until now payed with their health/liberty/life for those low prices). Unfortunately, I think it will keep beeing a dream for quite a while (if not ever)…
The cause is societal: the EU thinks that innovation should come top down. By giving established corporations subsidies, and a large administration that steers everyone every step of the way. To make sure nobody does anything out of the ordinary.
The EU doesn’t think. A cell of the organism doesn’t think in organ matters, an organ doesn’t think in cell matters.
The EU is just built this way, it’s a union of national governments against anything too mobile or evolutionary in their populations. It’s a confederation designed so that there’ll never be a federation of the same countries. Evolutionary mechanisms devour bureaucracies. But bureaucracies can strangle them.
