We have all seen the video of her broken body being paraded through Gaza and the people spitting on her. Hamas did that and they brought death and destruction to Gaza.
Hamas AND Israel both brought death and destruction to Gaza. Palestinian children are not bombing themselves now.
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I have not seen that thankfully
I don’t understand why someone would want to see that.
It is sadly the reality of the situation. Only someone fucked up can see that and the other videos from that day (example the slaughtered elderly at the bus stop etc) and think “Oh Hamas are the good guys.”
I think the number of people who think hamas are the good guys is infinitessimal compared to the number of people who think Israel shouldn’t be genocidal.
Do you think that’s the case globally or mostly in the western world?
I think anyone everywhere would agree that Israel’s response should be appropriate to the threat, which excludes genocide.
Sadly, I think most people in the western world just swallow the narrative which is that Israel are allies, therefore the good guys, therefore they can’t be genocidal.
The western world is hardly a population majority. Do you think your statement about who is considered “good” and “bad” expands outside of the western world?
It’s global in countries where people use forks.
what the fuck did I just read! Israel military should indeed kill children, shouldn’t they? fucking bastard you are.
Heavily armed, full of advantages, but are there, behind their joysticks killing toddlers! What an army of piece of shit!
You might have misunderstood my comment.
It’s reality. You want to understand the hatred felt by everything in that region? You have to watch it uncensored.
I disagree. I don’t think that watching a few videos could help someone “understand” the hatred as much as reading and listening.
Your imagination can’t match the nastiness of reality
I very much doubt that.
so the past 50 years of the gaza strip being bombed by israel have not brought death and desctruction to gaza? that’s ignoring the constant blockades and other restrictions israel put on gaza as well.
lets not forget the blockade by egypt too, even jordan at one point wanted to kick out and backtrack citizenship for all descendants of palestinian refugees
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I mean, the main start of the conflict was over 70 years ago. I’m not sure if Israel really comes out looking that much better.
They unilaterally declared themselves a state and ended up expelling over 700k people from their homes. They even utilized biological warfare, poisoning wells with typhus.
While there have been crimes against humanity committed by both sides, the reason people focus on Israel is that they are in the sole position of power. Palestine has no way to barter or negotiate, and when all other forms of discourse are eliminated, then the only option is violence.
Arab nations forced hundreds of thousands of Jews out of their homes and into Israel when the Brits controlled it.
Israel accepted the UN proposal for a two state solution, giving Gaza and the West Bank to Palestine.
Palestine rejected it and launched a war against Israel with the help of Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, and Iran in an attempt to eliminate the Jews in Israel.
Arab nations forced hundreds of thousands of Jews out of their homes and into Israel when the Brits controlled it.
Israel did not exist under British rule… are you talking about the blockade of Jerusalem in 47? I don’t think you know what you are talking about, there were only 500k Jews in all of Palestine when the British were in charge. And a lot more Palestinians were displaced during that conflict than Jews.
Israel accepted the UN proposal for a two state solution, giving Gaza and the West Bank to Palestine.
Yeah… That’s why people were upset. The Jewish population made up 1/3 of the population, and owned only 7% of the land during the mandate, but we’re given 56% of the country, which just happened to be the most valuable land.
Of course people are going to be pissed, a minority group was just awarded the majority of the country for free.
They’re referring to Operation Magic Carpet and the many other transfers of Jews to Israel.
The other user clearly is clearly knowledgable on the matter.
Clearly not, as he said this was an operation when the British controlled Palestine. Magic carpet happened in 49’, two years after the initial outbreak of violence.
We were discussing the initial cause of the violence, not one of its results.
Truth be told, I am not old enough to have cared about issues like this pre 2010. So what exactly do you think justifies israels behavior here? What happened before 2010 that shows that Palestine is the aggressor?
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Well, fair enough, in this comment chain nobody justified Israels behavior.
I know Hamas has been hiding behind civilians and children, and Hamas are absolutely disgusting. Definitely. But I think it’s necessary to acknowledge that bombing civilians to get rid of terrorists is counterproductive. IDF is almost certainly creating more terrorists than they are killing by doing that. I’m sure some of the civilians already want to destroy Israel, but I think most of them get indoctrinated when joining Hamas after seeing how friends and family keep getting killed by IDF.
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“It is kind of more complicated than that” when it is really not!
let me just start with this postulate:
- palestinians: natives
- israelis: colons
Should I add than one is heavily militarized and has control over infrastructures?
That’s wrong though. Palestinians and Israelis both stem from ancestors from the area. You could even say that at least in Jerusalem the Palestinians came later.
bullshit! you want to go back to what? neolithic ?
Have you seen videos of Israelis cheering every time they hear bombs exploding in Gaza?
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzAkNnCOCYB/?igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==
I mean after what happened it’s going to turn a lot of people dark. No different than in the states after 9/11. I legit know people that signed up just to “kill some sand you know what’s to get pay back”. That’s fucked up yes. And wrong. But hardly unexpected just like I expect citizens of Gaza to enmase celebrate the death of Jews now.
well I guess that makes killing this citizen ok then
That’s a terrible thing to say.
So is responding to a human atrocity with “yeah but what about these other people celebrating an atrocity”
thats the whole conflict tho :(
How is simply stating facts, “a terrible thing to say”?
Fuck Hamas. They are a blight on the Palestinian cause.
Edit: Typo
blight?
Yes
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This is news because she was one of the first videos that went viral that day. And to this day there are still people denying it that she died and that she is home safe. There was even a so called interview with her mother who said she was alive. They even went so far to say the truck video was them bringing her to a hospital (ya know because you beat half naked in her underwear body with your sandals to administer first aid).
The Internet used “her being alive” as one of the first propaganda pieces to try to paint the photo that nothing happened Oct 7 and Israel are all liars.
Turns out it’s exactly as the videos made it look. Just like the woman being led into a jeep with dark drried blood all over the ass of her pants was probably bleeding from mass rape even though the Internet tried to find every excuse for their behaviors.
the terrorism deniers/excusers are pretty disgusting on the internet
Please, add more add more, we must make the most of Hamas! Did Hamas ate her too? You know, we still have room for Israeli delirium.
You are all so ridiculous with your tabloid stories to hide the criminal acts that Israel is committing.
“A german-israeli woman dead”
“+3000 children smashed under bombings”“yeah, but Shani Louk! and you, come about people without name and sexy photo!”
nobody here is hiding stories about the criminal acts israel is committing, and in fact a lot of thr folks talking about killing and raping random women being bad are not pro israel
do you ever have a moment of clarity between frothing over folks saying torture is bad and think ‘am i a bad person’?
I don’t know when the truth became your enemy nor do I particularly care. Both sides have and continue to do bad things.
I think the mother was just in denial
The way I remember it is her mom said that Hamas claimed she was still alive. Not surprised it was a lie. Her mother must be even more devastated now after having that little bit of hope.
bleeding from mass rape
Prove this.
You don’t think that’s happening?
So you don’t have any proof that she was raped? Apart from white supremacist propaganda?
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I think it’s news because her body was taken around on a truck while people spat on her.
She was one of the women raped to death and then paraded through the streets. That and she was a foreigner.
I’m not familiar with the story. Are you saying that she was paraded after her death?
Edit: Nevermind. I saw the video just now. I’m at a loss for words to describe people who do this to innocent civilians.
Hamas. Terrorists.
The same people who use gaza as civilians and then blame Israel for the casualties. Their bosses are currently in Qatar, the same Qatar that has an explosion of meetings with different media mongrels during Fifa, particularly elon musk.
Imagine you have an invisible man in the sky who approves of everything you do and will make sure that when you die you go to a happy land forever. Now you understand.
This is exactly why I hate organized religion. Want to believe in God? That’s your concern. But don’t come to me peddling your sky daddy.
I think it’s rather because Hammas produced the video with her being pressed into back of their truck in unnatural position half naked and paraded trough the Gaza streets while tens or maybe hundreds people were celebrating her humiliation . But i might be wrong. 🤷♂️
A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths are a statistic-
Everyone’s favorite statistician
Here’s one right here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67266873
Post it, upvote it, give it it’s own thread. Both tales are appalling.
Well the important thing is you get to be superior to everyone else.
Hot take: making an astute observation for the purposes of having a conversation about media literacy isn’t being narcissistic.
Sad ! Thats the world we live in
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Nope it ain’t, and it’s mostly sensors and cams. Guards weren’t missing, it was religious holiday and most of the IDF came back home. A lot of paragliding recreations occur often and Hamas used this opportunity to their advantage. I know these things because I know few people who work in the IDF. I’m not jewish but I live in Israel for my job. The wall is mostly fence, and only in important places it’s a wall.
I assume you know that more than half a million Palestinians cross that border every day… it’s not that strict. Although from now on it might be
The “wall” is a chain link fence, Hamas just cut it down where they wanted to sally out through
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Perhaps the thousands of rockets fired at Israel that night and several attacks at multiple sides at the same time on a Jewish holiday had people distracted?
Israel ignored the warnings from Egypt
i assume a lot of it is high tech and sensor based, that can all fail with hacking or bad interpretation of the data. Also, the infiltrators likely first flew over the fence and possibly disabled parts of it once they were inside to allow others to come in the conventional way.
I’m very saddened to hear about the death of this young woman. I’m also sad to hear about deaths of many, many Palestinians. I do not think it’s coincidence that Hamas decides to launch a major offensive in the midst of talks with between Saudi Arabia and Israel to normalize relations between the two after many years of relative peace. We can’t have peace in the Middle East because it doesn’t serve the ends to the major regional powers.
Both sides in this conflict are used as pawns for the political ends of others. Innocent people are those that get caught in the midst of it all. Hamas didn’t do this without a green light so as much vitriol being spilled in this thread we have to take a step back. These fights have been brewing and going on for generations. If you take the short term view much of the strife we see today is the fallout from WWII and that is used as leverage by other nefarious parties.
It’s not the Israeli people’s fault they do not have a home. It’s not the Palestinian people’s fault they do not have a home.
Some of the comments in this thread are sickening, hateful, narrow, and short-sighted.
I don’t think it’s right to nonchalantly compare the Palestinians as the citizens of a nation and Jews as an ethnic group. It seems a bit… racist?
From what I understand it’s not the Palestinians fault they don’t have a home, and that’s in large part due to Israeli Zionists.
Not my intent. I made an edit to address that.
I don’t disagree with you if that extends beyond borders. External forces seem to dictate what happens there.
they have a home, and they’d have a country if they just said “yes”
Jews are most assuredly an ethnic group. One Hamas intends to commit genocide against.
"I invaded your land and occupied it and killed your family, but you didn’t say yes when I offered you a piece of your land! You’re a terrorist! "
you murdered, raped, and defiled the corpses of innocents, unprovoked, and with no aim but the act itself, so you’re by definition a terrorist
Ftfy
Palestinians weren’t citizens of a nation and than got invaded by Zionist Jews someday. Israel, Gaza and Westbank (now called Palestine) were created in that area which was called Transjordan at the time. And Israelis and Palestinians come from a similar group of people who has ancestors in the area.
The influx of Jews to the area was a result of World War 2 and the exile of Jews in some of the surrounding countries.
You are seen as a “Palestine refugee” btw, when your father was a Palestine refugee. It’s not exactly a citizenship.
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Tragic. Her poor mother stuck not knowing for 3 weeks… my heart goes out to them.
Tragic. Her poor mother stuck not knowing for 3 weeks… my heart goes out to them.
Yes, more tragic than this mother wearing her baby in her arms smashed by a - supposed - legal entity.
A civilian life is a civilian life but here, it is not me who breaks the balance! Disgusting!
more tragic than this mother wearing her baby in her arms smashed by a - supposed - legal entity.
can you point to the specific sentence where they even implied this, or are you actually just throwing a tantrum because someone said ‘man getting your daughter tortured and murdered must suck’
Take a breath. This is a human life that ended. Have respect and don’t diminish the loss. One day you will die too, and you would want people to treat your passing with respect and honor, not a talking point.
There are thousands of other threads you can hash out the unfairness of apartheid, and the realities of struggle, this isn’t the right place for that.
I am not diminishing her death. At this stage, it is indecent to talk about her death - and use it by the way in the most grossy way - while the Israeli army is stomping civilians, like deaf.
If they wanted to save her, the approach would have been:
- to cease bombing OR
- be real men and going on the field, not killing kids.
This is a human life, don’t twist her death into your talking point, that is disrespectful to her memory and to her family.
Go to literally any other world news post and start a argument there. You can make the same talking points.
Is it because of mobile or ubo but I didn’t see the video? Pretty sure the start showed her dead tits in the back of a vehicle though? That was weird.
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Not that any death is worth more or less than another, but it is surreal to know that the people killed at the music festival were privileged young people completely removed from the conflict, and most of the people killed in Gaza are poverty stricken children and starving adults.
War is ugly and unfair.
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Wow…just…wow…
Congratulations, you win the worst take of the day.
I hope you fit in.
Yeah clearly anyone who can afford a vacation deserves to be kidnapped raped brutalized and paraded through the streets before being left to die as a hostage over 3 weeks.
No, that’s not clear at all.
But you should try to understand the insane excess these partygoers had compared to the squalor that Gazans have to live in.
It makes sense that with such disparity in qualities of life, those who feel they got the short end of the stick fight back against those who have too much.
This entire comment chain, as usual, is just people getting upset at criticizing excess wealth. Pretty much unless it’s a billionaire, you’re not allowed to criticize excess wealth.
The closer we get to the root of the problem, the more people we’ll find that contribute to it and the less we’ll find that are willing to admit it.
No it doesn’t make sense you rape apologizing dingbat.
It’s so hard to fight for the Palestinian people when soulless monsters like you show up to represent the cause. It’s becoming harder and harder to figure out who is anti-apartheid, and who wants another Holocaust.
I wonder what the travel logs for Gazans are like, and why that is.
I don’t actually spend my time wondering why because we all got a pretty good demonstration from Hamas as to why. Their attack pretty much ensured there won’t be a free Gaza for another generation…or two, or three.
If you think what happened to this girl was justified, not only are you broken, but you are no different than the people who support the genocide of Palestinians.
I don’t think it was justified.
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Oh don’t get me wrong, I talk about how ridiculously expensive traveling is all the time. Anyone who engages in this sort of behavior has no right to complain about ‘not having enough money’, yet they routinely do. Lol.
Some people just don’t know the difference between needs and wants.
Shut the fuck up bitch.
Come on man, there’s no need to be doing that.
Could it be because of never-ending attacks against civilians because they lost multiple wars yet refuse to negotiate for a viable peace?
Nah, must be because the Jews are mean. 🙄
yet refuse to negotiate for a viable piece?
Look at any colonized people who have made peace on their colonizer’s terms for why they might not want to do that.
Let’s see here, just off the top of my head:
Native Americans, Native Australians, Native South Africans.
To be fair, Palestine already resembles the reservations and slums the native people I mentioned have been forced into by their colonizers.
I feel like you are missing the line between fighting for their freedom, and publicly raping innocent concert goers to death a bit, though. I completely understand them lashing out. I will never understand the targets that they chose to lash out at. It’s not smart from a strategic standpoint, even.
I’m not missing any line.
That’s just the realities of war.
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Native Australians are called Aboriginals
How about new zealand tho?
It sure seems like it worked for the Irish.
We were the stereotype terrorist until 9/11
Now people unironically ask Irish bartenders for car bombs and don’t see the issue.
It’s never bothered me tbh, that’s an American thing. Never heard of it until I visited
Well if you stick to that braindead logic to justify terrorism you’re just going to get bombed with no support from modern nations.
When you declare a genocide on a group of people don’t be surprised when they fight back.
When you declare a genocide on a group of people don’t be surprised when they fight back.
So, to be clear here, you are condemning Israel here, correct? The ones who are actually perpetuating a genocide?
Sure if you count defending yourself from genocide as genocide also.
Israel started the genocide. For that matter, they have a long history of starting fights with their neighbors. Sometimes it works out for them, and sometimes it doesn’t, but the common theme is they always blame it on people wanting to genocide the Jews. Only idiots still fall for that shit.
Lucky for them, they have powerful allies that cover for them and drag their asses out of the fire each time. But public opinion is slowly changing, and at some point it’s going to tip and Israel is going to pick a fight where nobody comes to their rescue. When that happens, I hope I’m around to appreciate them receiving their just rewards for being truly inhuman monsters.
Learn history.
You look over there, and then you look at the comments in here. It’s makes you wonder if the human race will ever live in peace. Shame on us all.
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I also find it troubling how many people on the fediverse are apologists for Hamas.
I’m not a Hamas apologist, but I have noticed that there are just as many IDF apologists.
Yeah, that’s not equal at all buddy. The IDF is commiting atrocities. Also, nobody gives a shit about Israeli civilians and millions of us are worrying about the 4th Reich.
Why does everything have to equal out? These are peoples lives, not a fucking math equation.
They wrote “just as many”… I agree with you hence my comment
Piece of shit.
Lol piece of shit bc a pattern of targeting Jewish civilians continueds and is worrisome? Elaborate please.
You’re a piece of shit because you don’t give a shit about civilians because they’re not part of your little hate group.
I got downvoted and shit on just for saying the videos from 10/7 showed really fucked up shit, including Shani. Some of the crowd on lemmy is pretty fuckin gross tbh, the Fediverse isn’t going to pick up with the tankies taking over over every controversial political topic.
I haven’t seen the videos (and I don’t plan to) because I don’t need to see them to know it was some horrendously fucked up shit. Just reading the articles about it was more than enough.
But Israel bombing the shit out of Gaza and blockading food, water, electricity, fuel, etc from entering Gaza is straight up crimes against humanity.
Israel is punishing every single person in the area for the crimes of Hamas.
Hamas can fuck off but I understand why they came about.
Yeah I’ve made it a point to not to “pick a side” which is what I am seeing people do in most conversations about the topic. I’m atheist and have no stake in either and the whole thing is just a disgusting mess. The problem comes when people justify the “eye for an eye” response that both groups are taking.
The problem comes when people justify the “eye for an eye” response that both groups are taking.
This is the all lives matter take of the middle east. Israel has killed 36x as many civilians as all pro-Palestine groups have killed Israeli civilians.
It’s not an eye for an eye. It’s genocide.
No, killing innocent civilians is never the answer no matter who has done what. And both groups are doing it. Israel can be a piece of shit for what they have done and are doing. And Hamas can be a piece of shit for what they did too, they are not mutually exclusive.
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You’d be surprised. I mean, even downpunxx is still here trolling his extremist crap under every topic.
The line between pro-Palestinian and anti-Semitic is dangerously thin in places.
Especially in the minds of people who want to revel in their righteousness.
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So nice that she was able to travel from Germany to party in Israel.
I wonder what the travel logs for Gazans are like, and why that is.
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Well, some of the released hostages report that while the experience is traumatizing, they were treated relatively well once held hostage. Of course, the released hostages were a) mostly elderly citizen and b) the ones Hamas chose to release, so there might be a selection bias. But the treatment of surviving hostages might not be as bad as initially feared. Let’s hope they make it out soon and safely.
That old woman was beaten and robbed and kidnapped. She called the experience hell. You have a funny definition of treating her well.
Iirc, those people who were released worked on Palestinian causes.
With an emphasis on once held hostage. People were killed and mutilated during the kidnappings, the old lady who was later released was beaten with sticks and struggled to breathe during the motorcycle ride.
She said they were kept in clean rooms, slept on mattresses, and received medical attention. They received white cheese and cucumber for eating, and Hamas told them “We believe in the Quran: We’re not going to hurt you”. The former hostage, Oded, noted that they took care of even the smallest detail, and her son sad that “If everybody in there is in the same situation, there is room for optimism”.
This doesn’t justify any of the actions of the terrorist attack. Obviously the situation is awful. But there is a good chance the hostages are still allright, which is a glimmer of hope in an awful situation assuming you have any piece of your humanity still intact.
Furthermore, I don’t believe my original post was that unclear, and you’ve clearly read the reporting. You knew exactly what I was referring to, and you’re still out there wasting people’s time trying to fuel hate. As if there’s not enough of that already. Fuck off.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-24/ty-article/.premium/85-year-old-israeli-grandmother-recounts-hamas-captivity-says-government-deserted-us/0000018b-615d-d312-a1fb-f77f9aea0000
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/24/freed-israeli-hostage-hamas-attack-00123323Removed by mod
With an emphasis on once held hostage.
Oh okay so if we ignore the bad, brutal, inhumane parts she was treated well. Got to set those goal posts very carefully to make her treatment seem acceptable.
“Besides that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?”
you’re still out there wasting people’s time trying to fuel hate.
Ah yes, clearly it’s my reactions to this fueling hate and not, you know all the murders. Maybe if I portrayed this old woman being kidnapped and beaten as humane it would calm things down? Is that what you’re doing?
I mean there is a huge gap between being tortured and raped, and getting decent food and medical attention. So yeah, in the context of being a fucking war hostage, seems like they were treated fairly decently.
Hamas should get a gold star for only beating and robbing this woman and not raping and torturing her?
no, but the claim that Shani is now free from all the rape and violence is simply not accurate and fuels hatred unnecessarily.
What are you talking about? This entire comment chain is from someone talking about how hostages may be getting treated.
If anyone is moving goalposts, it’s you. Lol.
Nah. It’s just a normal reddit comment.
Why downvoted? As a parent, this is accurate. Snowflake overeducated cunts don’t want to hear it bc it doesn’t fit their anger narrative. Sheeeit, maybe they’ll need to be self aware and realize they’re celebrating innocents being murdered. Fake woke shitheads.
You watched too many movies
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The expression “You watched too many movies” is a common colloquial phrase that is used to convey the idea that an individual’s perspective or perception of a situation has been significantly shaped by their exposure to movies. It suggests that their understanding may be unrealistic or exaggerated due to the dramatic and often exaggerated scenarios frequently depicted in cinematic storytelling. In other words, the phrase implies that the person’s view of reality has been distorted by the influence of fictional narratives found in movies. It’s a way of saying that someone’s expectations or beliefs are not grounded in practical or realistic understanding but rather influenced by the world of fiction and entertainment.
This phrase is often used humorously or to highlight when someone’s expectations do not align with the actual facts of a situation.
I used to think it was just an excuse to be a dick, but a lot of people legitimately watch too many movies and it shapes their view of the world.
Did they find the body to confirm the beheading. or is this the same story as the 40 beheaded babies propagandized by mass media.
Why the mess if one bullet could do a cleaner job. I don’t think they have a fetish for beheading despite all other cruelties they can be capable of.
Edit: for those who are asking why I am talking about beheading rumors because NBC Titled its video with “Beheading” and refer to Israel’s President saying: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ICR5ml2YPkI
Who said she was beheaded? All it says in the article is she had a severe head injury and if you watched the video of her being paraded, you can clearly see she has a head injury most likely being shot in the head.
Western Media as in the title of this video by NBC : https://youtube.com/watch?v=ICR5ml2YPkI
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/watch?v=ICR5ml2YPkI
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
The article explains the details. Just like you said. Shot in the head.
According to the title of this NBC video it says “Beheaded” , https://youtube.com/watch?v=ICR5ml2YPkI
So we don’t know Who to believe
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/watch?v=ICR5ml2YPkI
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
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Which isn’t a reason to be paraded half naked nor killed for the sins of the power hungry leader of both states. There is no excuse good enough to indiscriminately kill civilians.
She was paraded in the outfit she was partying in. They didn’t need to strip her she did that herself.
Also when people have a rave party on Crimea are they just innocent civilians that should be completely harmless from Ukranian attacks? Unless Israel forced her to be partying on Palestinian land why was she there?
