The talk about “enshittification” made me think of the very email we use for the instances we signed up and instantly, it paints a grim picture. One of my account used gmail to sign up. Some proton mail. It reminds me that these too are companies beholden to their shareholders.

Is there a fediverse answer to email? Like what mastodon is to twitter and lemmy is for reddit?

If not, maybe the fediverse can think about allowing email-less sign-ups?

As an addendum, what about the popular tools we use in our daily lives? The calendar, note tools, etc all are products of companies driven to maximize profits.

There’s a talk in the technology sub about how GitHub was acquired by microsoft and I’m willing to bet that it’s not the only popular tool that was or will be endangered of disappearing or turning worse in the name of profit.

Is there a community movement that can somehow mitigate this? Or is there really no choice for us? Is there a complete list of FOSS somewhere that are at par or at least only mildly worse than the popular mainstream ones?

    • Frost Wolf@lemmy.worldOP
      132·
      1 year ago

      I actually didn’t know that. So in the off chance that gmail fails or if it becomes too unbearable to use, the solution is to buy a domain and host your own email?

      • Mane25
        28·
        1 year ago

        Or just use one of the many other email providers.

      • probablyaCat@kbin.social
        12·
        1 year ago

        Always has been. Heh. Actually hosting your own email server is a pain in the ass. It is absolutely possible and back when I first started using linux I think it was automatically installed (sendmail – security nightmare, that thing) for a lot of distros. But there are some issues with self-hosted email getting flagged as spam, because some of the big servers like gmail use a whitelist to help fight spam. They basically expect you to be using a server hosted by a big company. And it isn’t just one type of server, last time I looked into it. You have your inbound which can be multiple types but I believe imap is still the most popular, because it has instant update features for your client. Then you got your outbound smtp server. And keeping these things secure it kind of a big thing. I changed careers so haven’t worked in the sysadmin area for a long time, but I do believe it is still an absolute effort to keeping all of this running, not being flagged as spam, keeping it secure, etc. But it is absolutely possible. I think I’ll go read up on it now, because you made me curious.

        edit: I forgot. You also have to set up your own spam filter. Which, at least in the past, was also a daunting effort.

        edit 2: Yeah reading this makes it seem like it is still a bit of a bitch to do. Especially if you click that blacklist link. But definitely doable.

        • r00ty@kbin.life
          6·
          1 year ago

          Oh it totally used to be easy. You needed to know about DNS and MX records and how to configure sendmail and you were good to go (optional IMAP/POP3 retrieval too).

          Now, it’s SPF, DKIM, DNSSEC (needed for strict DKIM), DMARC ensure you have good certificates for secure smtp/pop3/imap and even then if you have a funky domain (like most instances do) outlook/gmail will probably reject you into spam.

        • CarbonatedPastaSauce@lemmy.world
          1·
          1 year ago

          You are not wrong. My entire career has been email and I make bank because it is way more complex than most people realize, and very few people want to learn it to the level of detail required. That is a big reason hosting providers got so popular.

        • Frost Wolf@lemmy.worldOP
          13·
          1 year ago

          This is what I am afraid of. Because all major providers are companies in the end and they need to make a profit. So there may be a time when we really have to host our own email (not all of us can easily do)

          I don’t know, maybe, I am just disillusioned in general that I am starting to look for community alternatives rather than provided by big companies. At least right now we have plan B like proton mail and the rest. But if the trend continues, the pessimist in me fears the time where everyone would have to self host email, or subscribe to a big provider and submit to their rules.

          I shudder to think about the idea of emails becoming subscription services though.

          • Mane25
            15·
            1 year ago

            Well a few minutes ago you were believing that email was owned by Google, surely this is good news to you on balance, right?

            • Frost Wolf@lemmy.worldOP
              31·
              1 year ago

              Yeah I guess. But yahoo, tutanota, proton mail, hotmail, etc. all answer to a company. I was hoping for a more permanent solution which I think could either be

              1. Fediverse not requiring email to sign up

              Or

              1. A community or non profit email service that is not tied to one company but owned by many.

              I guess proton mail will be the next best thing but there’s the fear that they too will not remain free forever.

              • Mane25
                13·
                1 year ago

                Having companies involved isn’t bad as long as there’s enough choice. There are such a huge number of email providers I think there’ll always be alternatives if one turns bad - respectfully I don’t think your fears are realistic.

                Also, paying isn’t necessarily a bad thing, for example Protonmail’s paid options I think are quite reasonable for what you get and it keeps it private and ad-free, it’s a fair deal. I don’t think free providers will ever go anywhere but there is the choice.

                • Frost Wolf@lemmy.worldOP
                  2·
                  1 year ago

                  To be honest, proton is quite expensive for what it gives. Though this might differ depending on income levels and level of comfort. But their free version is serviceable enough if your email volume isn’t that high.

                  • Mane25
                    2·
                    1 year ago

                    I took that as an example, I’m not necessarily endorsing it as the best solution. I personally use the free package.

                    The bundle with VPN is what I was looking at; for full-featured email, VPN and 500 GB cloud storage from a provider with a good track record doesn’t sound bad if you don’t mind putting those eggs in one basket.

              • probablyaCat@kbin.social
                5·
                1 year ago

                Don’t stress it too much. The companies have incentives to not fuck around with things too much. Especially with email. I think the biggest danger isn’t even them having your email, but the fact that many things can be connected (and suddenly disconnected) that are linked to that account. So if you use an android phone and your google account gets locked for some reason, you can be locked out of your phone, your bank (due to email), your messages, your google photos, your google drive files, your apps that you paid for, anything you logged into using your gmail account, etc. I’ve been migrating some of my stuff into different places just for that reason.

                • Frost Wolf@lemmy.worldOP
                  1·
                  1 year ago

                  Hmmm you have a lot of good points. Decentralizing my accounts would be a good starting point. Will need to track more email accounts but then that’s what a good password manager is for.

          • Monkeyhog@lemmy.world
            2·
            1 year ago

            “I shudder to think about the idea of emails becoming subscription services though.”

            You mean like in the 90s? Hell I remember paying 25 cent per email on Prodigy back in the day…

      • platysalty@kbin.social
        52·
        1 year ago

        The simple answer is yes.

        The honest answer is at that point we may as well go back to using the postal service.