• rah
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    1 year ago

    The system necessitates consumerism because companies have the constant need to sell goods to continue to stay in business.

    Consumerism is excessive consumption. Capitalist enterprises depend on consumption but don’t depend on excessive consumption. Therefore consumerism is not necessitated.

    • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOP
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      1 year ago

      Again, you don’t seem to understand that companies exist to make profit, and making more profit is a positive from the perspective of people who own the companies. Therefore, excessive consumption is preferable. The mechanics of capitalism directly encourage constantly growing consumption because that’s how companies create profit. This is also why stuff like planned obsolescence exists, and why companies have an incentive to make products that don’t last.

      It’s absolutely incredible that somebody would have trouble understanding how basic systemic pressures work.

      • rah
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        1 year ago

        excessive consumption is preferable

        Of course. But that’s very different from saying it’s either (1) necessitated or (2) fundamental to the functioning of capitalism.

        • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOP
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          1 year ago

          Except it is necessitated and fundamental because these are the behaviors the capitalist system selects for. It can’t function any other way.

          • rah
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            1 year ago

            Except it is necessitated and fundamental because these are the behaviors the capitalist system selects for.

            Selecting for a behaviour does not imply that the behaviour is either necessitated or fundamental. What you’re saying doesn’t make sense.

            • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOP
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              1 year ago

              If you can’t make sense of the idea that an outcome that the system selects for is a quintessential property of the system then what else is there to say to you.

              • rah
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                1 year ago

                an outcome that the system selects for is a quintessential property of the system

                You keep changing the words you’re using. I’m not going to keep playing shift the goal posts with you.

                I get the idea you’re trying to convey, you’re just wrong.

                • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOP
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                  1 year ago

                  My meaning is very clear and you’re being intentionally obtuse here. Consumerism is a necessary outcome of the mechanics of capitalism. You can play all the word games you like, but that’s the fact of the situation. Nobody is shifting any goal posts on you, and you’re just making a clown of yourself here.

                  • rah
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                    1 year ago

                    Consumerism is a necessary outcome of the mechanics of capitalism.

                    Firstly, that’s not what you said before. What you said before was that “the system necessitates consumerism because companies have the constant need to sell goods to continue to stay in business” which implies that capitalism depends on consumerism. Now you’re saying that consumerism is an outcome of capitalism which implies that consumerism depends on capitalism. You’ve reversed the direction of the dependency.

                    Secondly, you’re wrong. Consumerism being an outcome of capitalism is not necessary. Likely but not necessary. And to ram the point home: “likely” and “necessary” are two very different concepts.

                    My meaning is very clear and you’re being intentionally obtuse here.

                    Your meaning is not clear. That’s one of the problems here. Your writing is very problematic. It’s clear that you’re not used to being rigourous in your communication.

                    And it’s clear that this lack of rigour in communication reflects a lack of rigour in your thinking. A prime example being what I described above: you’ve completely changed the meaning of what you’re saying by reversing the direction of dependency between consumerism and capitalism and yet you’re presenting this changed meaning as though it’s the same thing that you’ve been arguing before. That you use the two ideas interchangably and can’t see the difference between them shows very clearly a lack of logic and rigour in your thinking.

                    that’s the fact of the situation

                    Stamping their foot and saying “I’m right and that’s the fact of the situation” is how children deal with disagreements.