Hey all, I want to begin this with admitting my fault in not starting with an offer. The reason I didn’t send one in is because my customer had already worked with a few different photographers and the project is part of a networking exchange. My bad. So I went there and took pictures for a bit more than two hours. My own expectations of quality make me edit every set of pictures by hand, so no presets. That makes another two hours in editing. Now I’m based in Europe and I calculated my prices based on my cost, my taxes, my expected wage, available hours deducted by holiday and sick time and an overall paid workload of 40% of those hours. That makes me start my prices at 130 per hour of photography and 70 per post processing hour. Of course there is deductions for longer bookings, and networking opportunities etc. Overall I gave my customer the price of a bit more than 300 euros for the job. Sadly my customer wasn’t to happy and very confused as her recent partners oy charged her 100 or got invited for dinner. The customer also wanted to edit the pictures themselves. Again I’m at fault for not following proper procedure here. My questions are the following. Was the price unreasonable? Do you not edit your pictures the way I do and do you only use presets? What would you recommend to do in that situation. Thanks!
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Agree with a bunch of comments but did not see the question about handing over unedited pics. Is this a common thing? I would not hand over any raw images though…
If people are willing to pay your prices, they’re not unreasonable.
Some people will only pay bargain basement prices; others will pay top dollar (or £ or EUR) for a high quality product or service.
The only thing you did wrong here is not being transparent with them about your pricing at the outset.
Just because people pay it doesn’t mean it’s not unreasonable. People are desperate and will pay whatever they have to if they need it. However, this doesn’t apply as much to photography. Still 8k for a 30 min session is wildly unreasonable even if a billionaire forks it over.
Was the price unreasonable?
No. But the client never agreed to it either.
Do you not edit your pictures the way I do and do you only use presets?
No.
What would you recommend to do in that situation
Accept the price the client had in mind.
And in the future, make sure you are on the same page and in agreement on the price before you perform work for free.
Surely if the client made the booking without checking terms themselves they are implicitly agreeing to the businesses standard rates/terms etc.
Arguably yes. And certainly the client is partially at fault too for not getting on the same page about that beforehand.
But the client would argue that their perception of the business standard would be the lower pricing they got from these other photographers in that circle. And many jurisdictions have laws and judges that tend to side with consumer protection. In California, for example, many businesses are really careful to present the customer with a written quote of pricing, and to get a signature on that before doing anything. Caveat emptor is a thing too, but when it comes to a “they should have known better” situation, often it’s the business that’s primarily on the hook for having the responsibility of knowing better. Otherwise you open things up to predatory situations where a business charges what they want, hoping the client never asks first, and claims the client agreed to whatever their charge was going to be. It’s a lot easier for a court to just require that the business be upfront on pricing, and the business is screwed if they aren’t (an easy, objective, hard line decision); as opposed to having to research and evaluate if whatever surprise pricing was reasonable or not (a subjective decision with a lot of gray area).
Everything that I would recommend to prevent such a situation should have been done before the actual shooting. The first things to clarify before setting a date is a) What does the client want exactly? (Does she want the photos edited or does she want to edit them himself?) and b) What is the client willing to pay for the service she wants?
Do you know what photographers she worked with before? If yes, call them and ask about what they’ve billed her. And then go from there.
Do you have a website where clients will find your pricing structure?In the end, you have two possibilities:
- Tell her, that this is your usual pricing for this kind of project and that you expect her to pay the bill in full (she might not want to work with you again, obviously, and also get legal advice).
- Call the client and thell her that you are sorry for the inconvenience. This is your standard pricing, but you are willing to give her a discount. How much of a discount depends on your negotiating skills. ;) Maybe only send her the unedited pictures and remove the editing costs from your bill?
I think your prices aren’t unreasonable, but I expect people who have nothing to do with photography be shocked about how expensive it can be. And I guess there are a lot of photographers who are cheaper.
I will (usually) edit the pictures myself, but in the end I will do what my clients order. And clarify their order before the shooting, not afterwards. ;)
If you’re shooting professionally there should always be a contractual agreement outlining what you and your client expects and how much it is going to cost them.
If you are not doing this you are not professional and leave yourself open to all sorts of trouble.
Even if you are shooting for free, you should still have a contractual agreement.
If this happens a lot you could put your prices on your portfolio site under “book me” or how you want to call it. Dont forget to put a small asterix with the variable prices like transportation costs per mile or km. For every hour spend photographing I spend an hour in post processing so I put those together for the ease of the client.
A tip I have gotten before is to be more transparent by showing every cost in your bill. F.e. maintenance costs, subscription costs, etc. They might be more understanding.
Never put your pricing down if you ever plan on making serious bucks. Client who will make $100k off of your work will be charged 10x more than a client who’d make $1000.
Never, ever, start a job without agreeing terms. If they agree, great. If they don’t, also great - you avoided a situation like this.
We are always too scared to address prices and terms and it shouldn’t be that way. It’s always good to get things clear from the start, then it can all go smoothly, or you can agree to negotiate, or you can agree that you aren’t a good fit for their needs.
Always, always, always, get agreement on the rates , times, deliverables, what’s acceptable and what’s not before you do any job.
Chalk this up and accept the €100. But not the dinner, that’s just condescending and insulting for them even to offer. Photographers are doing a job, not begging for food.
Pricing sounds fine but don’t shy away from presets because you think it’s better, it’s not. Make your own preset from one edit, sync it across the entire project and then adjust. You’ll save hours and technically get paid more.
I actually use Ai now and it’s saved me so much time and stress. I just go in and play with masks and a bit of exposure and I’m done.
What AI tools do you use?
I am a full time Photogrpher from Italy, your prices are not too high and are actually affordable.
I charge 240€ per hour of Shooting (editing included), i usually decrease it, when they book me for longer, or don’t charge every hour since i like to take my time to make the pictures as good as possible. I often also make offers which with a fixed price, for example ( i shoot picture of product A, B, C and will deliver at least 3 picture per product for X€) like this i can decide by myself how long i take for finjsbing the pictures and clients know the exact amont that i will charge already.
If you want to make a living you need to charge these prices and most of the full time photographer charge somewhere around this amount. Same as you say, about 40% of the money will be expenses and you would not always have Work. You also need to upgrade equiptment regularly to stay up to date, which cost a lot of money too and they pay for your experience which a hobby Photographer that charge less might not have.
In your situation, i would try to explain that to them. See how they react, if they try to make a big deal out of it, i would let it go and take it as a lesson for future clients. Be carefull to keep a good reputation and always give them your rates first or make an offer.
If she’s offering dinner in lieu of payment, it feels like she was expecting it as a favour and not paid work at all
That was my take, too, a:
“I gave my neighbour’s nephew’s girlfriend’s cousin £100 and some soupe au poulet, but they weren’t available this time…”
Sort of vibe.
Main question: business or private client?
If it’s a business client: their problem for not checking prices and simply hiring someone.
If it’s a private client: a bit more complicated if nowhere on your website are any information regarding your prices and you didn’t give any indication on how much it would be.
Your pricing sounds fine, their expectations of what a photographer costs not so much. It sounds like they only worked with amateurs before and are clueless about prices. 100€ or a dinner, lolz
Thank you all for your insights and advice! I explained the pricing structure and of course it was my mistake not to be transparent about it before the shoot. We’ll find a solution that is fair for both parties. I’ll remember it as a learning.
I will follow this thread, as someone who is EU based but not quite at the level to start charging for photoshoots - I’d love to check your portfolio, work so I can get an idea of what level of quality we’re talking about here.
I am just not confident enough to ask someone to pay…
so you did a job without first informing them of the cost…? well that wasn’t right, on both ends. but it does put you in a really hard bargening position