I have been lurking in this sub for a bit, and I have seen many criticisms of books because the reader dislikes what they consider misogynistic elements, or racist, sexist, homophobic elements. My question is, can a book be good/great, even if the author makes you feel uncomfortable? Why does the author’s style, or a character need to prescribe to a specific concept of morality to be an acceptable read?
Personally, I don’t understand why certain language or topics are a no go for folks. If a story is good, it shouldn’t matter. I also think reading things that don’t align with your beliefs, is generally a great way to expand your mind, and make you a wiser person.
No. This is the beauty of books. Otherwise, it’s a waste of time.
If I want to read only about what I think it’s moral, I wouldn’t read.
I think it’s about the approach. Are those elements being used as a narrative tool to enrich the world? Or am I being preached at by an author who thinks they know better?
I really love the harry bosche books, and the first few are some of my favourites. But the black echo is so casually homophobic and transphobic I found it very uncomfortable to read through.
Connolly got better with this as the series went on, but some other books in his collection have this problem. I won’t deny it’s a great book and the language could have the benefit of the doubt of being “of its time” but nevertheless I still found it uncomfortable.
For the duration of Lord of the Rings, I am a monarchist and want Aaragorn, son of Arathorn, to inherent yh throne or Gondor
I like them, as they usually show me a side of life that i don’t interact with. What i don’t like is a superficial approach to it, one that doesn’t let me understand it’s way of thinking and logic, it’s reasons, like the person or way of action were of an animal and not a sentient being.
This is my thoughts on “the Ninth Gate” by Leigh Bardugo
No. If a book has a philosophy or worldview that I disagree with yet can make me think and question my deeply held beliefs I will find it fascinating. I tend to dislike any book that I consider to offer surface level depth and analysis even if it would contain the same belief system that I hold.
I’ll answer with a specific example. I tend to be turned off by books that have characters that espouse cultural feminism. This is because it’s a philosophy many in my life have followed, and I personally(as a feminist myself) feel that it’s an extremely harmful form of feminism that creates many more problems than it solves. So when I encounter it in a book, that’s an immediate red flag, warning lights flashing, what is this? Does it have an agenda? Critical reading engaged!
There’s three ways it can go from that initial surge of repulsion and alert:
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While a character holds these beliefs, they’re shown(or implied) to be untrue. The philosophy is subverted, rather than reinforced. These are good books that I will recommend, albeit with a warning that it might seem dodgy there for a while but trust.
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Or maybe these beliefs go unchallenged. Maybe their truthful status is central to the plot, part of the thesis of the book. I do not enjoy these books, and I can’t recommend them.
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Or, the third option, is that these beliefs seem to be present in the material, but aren’t central to the plot or premise. The author’s bias is seeping in, but their thesis is in another castle, so to speak. These books are…eh. Complicated. I may or may not like them. It depends on how egregiously it offends. I might even recommend them, but with a caveat.
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All of Ender’s Game is an ethical and moral nightmare but that’s like the whole point to me. You aren’t supposed to like any of it
It depends, but usually problems of racism or misogyny etc. results in poorly written characters and that does undermine and otherwise good story. Of course it all depends on context, execution etc. but in general if there’s something in the book that you disagree on it will often be perceived as a poorly written part(unrealistic, etc.)
Honestly no. I disagree with casual racism, for example if someone said in a book “better not to marry outside your race” I’d absolutely disagree with the sentiment, but if it’s a throwaway comment in the context of the story I’m not going to throw the book away (I’m basing this on one of my favourite books Miss Pettigrew lives for a day). It’s like people who get outraged when a woman is told to smile more or some vaguely inappropriate sexist remark; but seemingly overlook the fact that there’s a tonne of porn on the internet; freely accessible; of women being subjected to the most degrading treatment imaginable.
i consume a lot of “imperfect” media that sometimes rubs me the wrong way because it offers something else that engages me or i can just “death of the author” head canon the flaws away.
that being said i am a lot less tolerant with books specifically since im usually investing money and a lot mire focus and effort on them compared to casually watching tv. id say i definitely actively avoid books with such aspects i dont like. the way i see it, if its fiction it has little to offer me regarding what i look for in fiction, and if its nonfiction, i can just skim the content and assess the information
that being said even my favourite authers sometimes disappoint me, even within my favourite books, so once again, it depends on what else they have to offer
I find the imposition of another person’s moral system to be very annoying in classic literature. For instance, many older book copies remove spicier language used in earlier times. So many copies of Pepys remove the word turds from the description of his neighbours sewage overflowing into his cellar. You can’t take the turds out of the seventeenth century without losing a great deal of the atmosphere! Likewise the syphilitic whores and the mercury treatments to cure it which are part of any good Boswell journal.
To some extent, it’s the editors and publishers not the authors who impose moral standards.
They’re scared of public condemnation. Free speech in literature should be enshrined in law. After all, people don’t have to read it. Personally, I dislike anything bigoted and that abuses religious, sexual or gender groups. But I fully support your right to read about Pepys shite or Boswell’s whores.