Right, so in Math we have axioms and we build upon those axioms and construct theorems which are deductively true. They are not true in the same way a scientific theory is. My point is, not everything that can be true needs empirical verification. Math is one example.
While what you say is true, tautological arguments are not useful in and of themselves. Internally consistent mathematics is not a useful construct unless we can empirically discover structures that those mathematical systems model. Einsteins theory of relativity is not impressive without the empirical discovery that the it is/was a better model than the existing Newtonian models that proceeded it.
To argue that internally consistent tautologies are true and are of equivalent usefulness is a bad faith argument that inappropriately equates two logical constructs.
I agree with what you’re saying. The reason why I said what I said originally is because there is a decent number of people who only consider science as the only way to truth. Despite logic for example being accepted and needed to do any science.
The problem is that you failed to adequately disambiguate your position from nonsense. The position you presented is a poor one and an unwelcome thing to try and defend in this community. Additionally, your presentation of the subject was combative instead of illuminating and your statement about “true things” is just a bad presentation of a thing we have excellent proofs of without the hand waving.
Frankly, it was difficult for me to differentiate your argument from a bad apologist argument.
I went back to my main comment and read it. I don’t think I conveyed any “nonsense”. Perhaps I could’ve presented things differently? Sure. Also, to say that I’ve been combative in the discussion while you are doing just that is ironic.
Right, so in Math we have axioms and we build upon those axioms and construct theorems which are deductively true. They are not true in the same way a scientific theory is. My point is, not everything that can be true needs empirical verification. Math is one example.
While what you say is true, tautological arguments are not useful in and of themselves. Internally consistent mathematics is not a useful construct unless we can empirically discover structures that those mathematical systems model. Einsteins theory of relativity is not impressive without the empirical discovery that the it is/was a better model than the existing Newtonian models that proceeded it.
To argue that internally consistent tautologies are true and are of equivalent usefulness is a bad faith argument that inappropriately equates two logical constructs.
I agree with what you’re saying. The reason why I said what I said originally is because there is a decent number of people who only consider science as the only way to truth. Despite logic for example being accepted and needed to do any science.
The problem is that you failed to adequately disambiguate your position from nonsense. The position you presented is a poor one and an unwelcome thing to try and defend in this community. Additionally, your presentation of the subject was combative instead of illuminating and your statement about “true things” is just a bad presentation of a thing we have excellent proofs of without the hand waving.
Frankly, it was difficult for me to differentiate your argument from a bad apologist argument.
I went back to my main comment and read it. I don’t think I conveyed any “nonsense”. Perhaps I could’ve presented things differently? Sure. Also, to say that I’ve been combative in the discussion while you are doing just that is ironic.