hey folks, here’s a quick update on our decision to defederate from sh.itjust.works! (and here’s sh.itjust.works’s side of this update)
we got in touch with the head admin over there, The Dude, and we had a pretty good chat about our concerns and reason for defederating. while immediate re-federation is just bluntly off the table with the rudimentary state of Lemmy’s moderation tools, we now have a pretty good idea of the roadmap to refederating with them. we think we’ll eventually be able to do this, although we don’t have a timetable on when yet.
we’re also now collaborating with him on how to move forward–and in the weeks and months to come we’ll be pushing to expedite the process of developing some of the necessary tools. this decision has really helped us make connections that can hopefully realize those tools both on the desktop side and in apps being developed for Lemmy. we’re also hoping to collaborate with other Lemmy administrators who have needs like our own, or just generally want more granular tools at their disposal.
we did also get in touch with the lemmy.world owner prior to defederating to share the concerns that prompted us to defederate[1]–but we have not received any communication from him since it was levied, so there’s no roadmap at all there as of now. we’re always open to reconsidering and collaborating to end the defederation with him, but for now the earliest i can give you is “when mod tools are in a better state”.
that’s all for now folks. if any new significant developments take place we’ll announce them as needed.
we’re only bringing this up now because it was just not useful information in the context of our announcement. it almost certainly would have been interpreted as some sort of callousness and/or brought unnecessary sectarianism and grief to him. at the end of the day he has his reasons and desires for running lemmy.world how he does, and we have ours for running Beehaw as we do. because of social and technological circumstances those are just incompatible right now, and that’s fine. ↩︎
Thanks for the update!
While exploring kbin I’ve been checking out lemmy world a bit and there’s a surprising level of toxicity towards beehaw going on. From a vocal minority of course but some have seem to have taken the degeneration as personal slight and some are just aggressive towards beehaw on a general term.
A lot of people seem to understand the reasons and even if they don’t agree with it they’re at least understanding.
The toxic minority is hard to grasp though.
Then again, I suppose the ones that caused the issues in the first place are among that group.
I understand the decisions made but I would be pretty annoyed if I had a lemmy.world or a sh.itjust.works account and I’ll explain why below.
Looking on https://browse.feddit.de/ Beehaw has the largest communities for Gaming, Technology, Chat, News, Programming, Politics and Music (and probably more). These are staple communities that the majority of users will be subscribed to one or more.
Those users now need to make a decision, they either make a new account on Beehaw (or another instance that isn’t defederated by Beehaw) so they can continue to browse those communities, or they instead keep their accounts on lemmy.world / sh.itjust.works and join smaller and less active communities to replace the Beehaw ones.
Unfortunately trolls can create a load of accounts in instance ABC and spam Beehaw until Beehaw defederate instance ABC until there are no large instances left.
It’s good that Beehaw are looking to refederate with both instances, but I imagine that the majority of people expressing their opinions thought defederation was a final decision.
I think there may also be a bit of a defensive reaction in that without the full context, there’s sort of an implication that Beehaw admin thinks everyone on these other two instances are just terrible people. Couple that with Beehaw’s…erm…opinionated language, and it’s a recipe for hurt feelings.
I’ve seen some comments mentioning that it feels like guilt by association, and it seems somewhat reasonable to take that personally – especially as people are still wrapping their heads around how federation works and how blunt the mod tools are at this stage.
I also think there’s maybe some harsh feelings over the idea that Beehaw’s ideal state is Beehaw users being able to comment on other instances but not the other way around. There’s some sentiment I’ve seen that this amounts to Beehaw taking the big communities for itself and hanging everyone else out to dry. I don’t really think that’s Beehaw’s intention, but when the big conversations appear to be happning behind closed doors, it makes sense that some feathers would be ruffled.
And last, I’ve seen some users commenting that the only reason the two defederated instances got users is because the signups are open and anyone who was put off by Beehaw’s registration either can’t use words effectively or was born to antagonize Beehaw’s users. I really don’t think that antagonistic view other other instances’ users is helpful, and it’s definitely making the situation on the ground worse. For example, the reason I didn’t register with Beehaw is that I just couldn’t think of any actual reason I wanted in there versus anywhere else – I just wanted to be where the people were, so I could use a social platform to talk to strangers, and the way Beehaw’s reg page is worded, it sounds like this would likely not be a good enough reason to be allowed to participate there. So I just went somewhere else that seemed more interested in having me around.
So i guess for anyone who bothers to read this, please don’t lump all users from the defederated instances under a banner of “degenerates” or whatever. They seem to really be taking it to heart, and I think it’s more hurt feelings than actual antagonism for anyone who didn’t personally harrass anyone.
Plenty of them make it clear that they very much wants the decision to be final and for beehaw to die off.
But yeah, there are always going to be trolls online I suppose.
Amazing how fast tribalism takes form
Sad isn’t it? :(
It is, but why not embrace the good aspects of it while at the same time working to overcome the bad?
The way I see it, beehaw is doing a solid for their “tribe” by holding to account those that are being nasty. This is one of the best things a tribe can do; work towards justice. Plus, this whole event is leading to collaboration with The Dude to make the fediverse better, right?
Very true. It’s too easy to get dragged along with negativity… I need to focus on the positive!