That’s not true and it wouldn’t matter even if it was true. You got to know a lot about Russian current culture to understand the specifics.
It’s useless to apply current standards of developed countries on Russia in order to approve some politician. Russia needs to change before that could even work. I imagine Navalny could’ve been one of drivers of that process.
I don’t see why it is useless to apply the standards of developed countries, if you’re a right wing shithead with horrible views, you’re a right wing shithead with horrible views. Just because you are imprisoned by a bigger shithead doesn’t excuse your views or actions.
We ofc should keep advocating for his release under spurious charges that he finds himself under as we should across the world.
Someone calling you a shithead doesn’t make you a shithead, simple as that.
People not having a slightest idea about what people in Russia would think about what they assume by “right wing” won’t help Russian people at all, they would only confuse themselves.
The reason, though, is that by telling other people who has no idea about how Russia works to note how another Russian person is bad by their standards (also doing no work to actually research and confirm that) will only make it much less likely for any Russian person to be liked or accepted by the rest of the world. Not because they are really that bad or stuff, but because of only high probability of people getting misled by crap articles and Kremlin propaganda and then refusing to do proper research.
I’m not on Lemmy to convince Russians about what opinion they should hold tho. I’m stating an opinion about the matter on a public forum not exclusively for Russians.
We shouldn’t delude ourselves on the outside that this is a good person, even if he is an improvement on the current leadership. That is my point, because you see this time and time again, to the point that the outside world starts to essentially simp for the slightly less shit person.
Okay let me try it differently. Imagine a perfect clone of Navalny gained full power in your country. You know he is a right wing shithead and will inevitably do what you expect and afraid him to do. Can you list a few things that he will do?
What does that impossible thought experiment achieve?
I could just tell people to have nuance and not fall prey to idolising a right wing bigot who is less shit than the right wing bigot that imprisoned him?
Again this message is to those outside of Russia, some random thought experiment that goes nowhere but to continue this conversation and give you the ego to go “well ackshually” means shit all in the scheme of things.
You basically refuse to explain what could happen that would constitute for “bad” or “unwanted” if Navalny is supported.
You refuse to explain what exactly do you mean by right wing (exact bad stuff about it) and instead rely on your readers’ own interpretation to convince them that person should not be supported.
By providing exact example you could be more specific. And I could find some stream piece with Navalny’s point of view on something exact to show you that he would not actually do what you think he would do.
If you still want to avoid exact examples and only rely on those old clips about immigrants then you have no chance of proving me wrong. In his presidential program there was a proposition to require visa from them, and this can’t be viewed as bad. Else you’d have to tell me countries like US/EU are controlled by right wing shitheads already. It’s like telling your readers “hey don’t forget, this guy seems to be at least as bad as your own government, don’t support him”.
If you’d read the article, you’d have seen that those complaints didn’t come from Westerners, but rather from Russians who complained about e.g. his anti immigrant stance, equating immigrants to „cockroaches“ or dressing as a dentist and making a metaphor that immigrants were a pain that needs to be removed. He hasn’t distanced himself from these statements. Therefore Amnesty International’s Moscow office reluctantly rescinded his “prisoner of conscience“ status.
You pretend like nationalist authoritarianism is a phenomenon exclusive to Russia, or like this would be some kind of special case. No it is not. I come from a place with equally rotten politics and we have people being marked as terrorists nowadays who were pushed as freedom fighters by the Westerns back in the day because they were against their enemy. The Americans conveniently ignored all their fascistic tendencies or said something like you do about having to understand the specific culture, etc. to justify supporting those people. And now they’re backing someone else to get rid of the people they once supported, again ignoring anything that doesn’t fit into their narrative. If you now think you know where I’m from, believe me you don’t, this is such a common trope it has happened in too many places. Your situation is not unique and if you support a fascist you get fascism.
didn’t come from Westerners, but rather from Russians who complained
If you read the article and do some research it really comes from either Kremlin propaganda or people not knowing who Navalny really is.
his anti immigrant stance, equating immigrants to „cockroaches“ or dressing as a dentist and making a metaphor that immigrants were a pain that needs to be removed
And? You don’t know that about 70% of Russian population use much more cruel words about immigrants every day? You don’t know that there is a real problem with salaries in Russia that could be affected if Russia required proper visa from immigrants (something that a lot of other countries already do but you seem to not complanin about their immigrant stance)?
If you assume a politician who did and said that much as Navalny towards immigrants will do some real unimaginable shit towards them if he gets power… I think any Russian will tell you that you are wrong.
You pretend like nationalist authoritarianism is a phenomenon exclusive to Russia
Excuse me what? Where did I?
Your situation is not unique and if you support a fascist you get fascism.
I know Russia’s situation is not unique. That said, Navalny is unique as a political person still.
Surprise, you already have fascism in Russia even without Navalny. And there will be much more as long as Putin (at least) is in power.
Not that I hope that Navalny will at some point will get any power to do anything. But people lose too much when they judge others by single episodes from their past (that aren’t even getting interpreted properly, heh).
That’s not true and it wouldn’t matter even if it was true. You got to know a lot about Russian current culture to understand the specifics.
It’s useless to apply current standards of developed countries on Russia in order to approve some politician. Russia needs to change before that could even work. I imagine Navalny could’ve been one of drivers of that process.
Also Amnesty reversed that decision since. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2021/05/statement-on-alexei-navalnys-status-as-prisoner-of-conscience-2/
I don’t see why it is useless to apply the standards of developed countries, if you’re a right wing shithead with horrible views, you’re a right wing shithead with horrible views. Just because you are imprisoned by a bigger shithead doesn’t excuse your views or actions.
We ofc should keep advocating for his release under spurious charges that he finds himself under as we should across the world.
Someone calling you a shithead doesn’t make you a shithead, simple as that.
People not having a slightest idea about what people in Russia would think about what they assume by “right wing” won’t help Russian people at all, they would only confuse themselves.
The reason, though, is that by telling other people who has no idea about how Russia works to note how another Russian person is bad by their standards (also doing no work to actually research and confirm that) will only make it much less likely for any Russian person to be liked or accepted by the rest of the world. Not because they are really that bad or stuff, but because of only high probability of people getting misled by crap articles and Kremlin propaganda and then refusing to do proper research.
I’m not on Lemmy to convince Russians about what opinion they should hold tho. I’m stating an opinion about the matter on a public forum not exclusively for Russians.
We shouldn’t delude ourselves on the outside that this is a good person, even if he is an improvement on the current leadership. That is my point, because you see this time and time again, to the point that the outside world starts to essentially simp for the slightly less shit person.
And that is how I interpreted it.
Okay let me try it differently. Imagine a perfect clone of Navalny gained full power in your country. You know he is a right wing shithead and will inevitably do what you expect and afraid him to do. Can you list a few things that he will do?
Why?
What does that impossible thought experiment achieve?
I could just tell people to have nuance and not fall prey to idolising a right wing bigot who is less shit than the right wing bigot that imprisoned him?
Again this message is to those outside of Russia, some random thought experiment that goes nowhere but to continue this conversation and give you the ego to go “well ackshually” means shit all in the scheme of things.
It goes a long way that you are avoiding.
You basically refuse to explain what could happen that would constitute for “bad” or “unwanted” if Navalny is supported.
You refuse to explain what exactly do you mean by right wing (exact bad stuff about it) and instead rely on your readers’ own interpretation to convince them that person should not be supported.
By providing exact example you could be more specific. And I could find some stream piece with Navalny’s point of view on something exact to show you that he would not actually do what you think he would do.
If you still want to avoid exact examples and only rely on those old clips about immigrants then you have no chance of proving me wrong. In his presidential program there was a proposition to require visa from them, and this can’t be viewed as bad. Else you’d have to tell me countries like US/EU are controlled by right wing shitheads already. It’s like telling your readers “hey don’t forget, this guy seems to be at least as bad as your own government, don’t support him”.
If you’d read the article, you’d have seen that those complaints didn’t come from Westerners, but rather from Russians who complained about e.g. his anti immigrant stance, equating immigrants to „cockroaches“ or dressing as a dentist and making a metaphor that immigrants were a pain that needs to be removed. He hasn’t distanced himself from these statements. Therefore Amnesty International’s Moscow office reluctantly rescinded his “prisoner of conscience“ status.
You pretend like nationalist authoritarianism is a phenomenon exclusive to Russia, or like this would be some kind of special case. No it is not. I come from a place with equally rotten politics and we have people being marked as terrorists nowadays who were pushed as freedom fighters by the Westerns back in the day because they were against their enemy. The Americans conveniently ignored all their fascistic tendencies or said something like you do about having to understand the specific culture, etc. to justify supporting those people. And now they’re backing someone else to get rid of the people they once supported, again ignoring anything that doesn’t fit into their narrative. If you now think you know where I’m from, believe me you don’t, this is such a common trope it has happened in too many places. Your situation is not unique and if you support a fascist you get fascism.
If you read the article and do some research it really comes from either Kremlin propaganda or people not knowing who Navalny really is.
And? You don’t know that about 70% of Russian population use much more cruel words about immigrants every day? You don’t know that there is a real problem with salaries in Russia that could be affected if Russia required proper visa from immigrants (something that a lot of other countries already do but you seem to not complanin about their immigrant stance)?
If you assume a politician who did and said that much as Navalny towards immigrants will do some real unimaginable shit towards them if he gets power… I think any Russian will tell you that you are wrong.
Excuse me what? Where did I?
I know Russia’s situation is not unique. That said, Navalny is unique as a political person still.
Surprise, you already have fascism in Russia even without Navalny. And there will be much more as long as Putin (at least) is in power.
Not that I hope that Navalny will at some point will get any power to do anything. But people lose too much when they judge others by single episodes from their past (that aren’t even getting interpreted properly, heh).