Edit - Jfc people. Yes, murdering your father because you’re so deep down the conspiracy rabbithole is a very clear sign that you have serious untreated mental illness. Is that really that hard to understand?
And no, it’s not a get out jail free card. It’s identifying that propaganda preys on the mentally ill for indoctrination, and that a subset of the mentally ill are extraordinarily predisposed to violence as part of their condition.
I will lay a bet that if we were to perform a neuroimaging exam of this man’s brain, we would find a hypertrophic amygdala (which is the physical part of the brain that detects and classifies fear and threat responses) heavily primed to kick off a reaction in the limbic system. It’s a hair trigger over which you don’t have conscious control at that point. I will also guarantee he has a hypotrophied prefrontal cortex, which is the slower to react but more evolutionarily advanced part of the brain that’s supposed to keep all that stuff in check by asking “Is that what’s really happening?” and “What will happen to me if I do this?” There’s also a very solid chance we’d find evidence traumatic brain injury, with is present in 50%+ of persons in jail for violent crime and about 10% in the general population. We could do a blood work up, a DNA test, a psychological history, and so on.
We’re talking about structural, chemical, genetic, and psychological determinants. I don’t know how to classify that other than mental illness requiring treatment. I’m going to use a non-preferred term in its colloquial sense, but if a person is psychotic, you’re not going to punish them back to mental health.
Not everyone with mental illness is violent - almost none are. But people with these conditions are indeed mentally ill - it is a medical, not a moral condition - and until we approach it like that, we’re not going to be able to begin to address it.
I do not believe that we have free will, but I think in extreme cases like this you don’t even need to go that far. You’re no more going to fix a person like this morally than you’re going to cure epilepsy with an exorcism.
Yes, it is my educated opinion that this person, for the reasons I outlined at a pretty high level, has mental illness.
No, I do not think that the other person’s statement was totally cool. I agree with you that it was insensitive and dismissive. I want to make it very clear that I’m not trying to invalidate the reaction that kind of comment inspires.
What I am saying is that we do not do the fields of medicine, mental health, or criminal justice reform any favors if we try to take the stance that mental illness has no role to play in these kinds of incidents.
Look, I’m a researcher. One of my primary areas of research is studying how susceptibility to contagious ideas like these cluster in social networks and how they’re exploited by the viral contagion between individuals as pushed by their peers and mass/social media. I can get all into sigmoid transfer functions from opinions to behavior and how they’re left-shifted by predispositions.
But my main, ethical point is that this is a medical problem, and we need to treat it like one. None of that casts aspersions or makes any assumptions whatsoever about the vast spectrum that constitutes what we broadly and often erroneously term “mental health.” It just means that people need psychological and medical interventions rather than life in prison or the electric chair.
Even if he was mentally ill his specific fear of vaccines didn’t just materialize out of thin air. It’s not a get out of jail free card. Especially for the people who taught him to hate vaccines.
You’re so sickeningly wrong… Serious mental illness does not have the connection to violence you’re claiming. I wrote this article on my blog specifically to combat the harmful stigmatizing misinformation like you are claiming here. (I have ads turned off and don’t benefit in any way.)
An excerpt from my blog post:
Only 3-5% of violent acts can be attributed to those with SMI [20], co-occurring substance use plays the most pivotal role in violence [24], many psychosocial contextual factors influence violent acts [11], and while individuals with SMI are potentially 2.1% more likely than those without a mental illness to be violent [4], they are 10 times more likely to be victims of violence themselves. [20]
The following is an excerpt on the Far-Right violent extremism (such as this case) from another one of my blog posts
Radicalization happens when an individual experiences destabilization thru various environmental factors (e.g., job loss, interpersonal hardship, isolation), experiences extremist rhetoric, and the extremism is then reinforced by members of the individual’s group/community. [24]
Radicalization spreads through a complex social contagion effect, in which it requires multiple exposures before the individual adopts the extreme belief(s), and this concept has been documented in political movements in a broad application. [24] Political propaganda utilizes a similar approach as well.
Group membership and social media usage are catalysts that enhance the spread of radical beliefs. [24] However, evidence suggests that despite encountering the misinformation online, there are still geographical factors that suggest local organizing plays an important role in the development of Far-Right extremist groups. [24]
3 Key Ingredients for Radicalization: [10]
1. Identity Fusion: allegiance to a social group is prioritized above one’s own well-being and identity.
2. Obsessive Passions: one compulsively and relentlessly pursues a passion to the point of dysfunction, marked by loss of self-control and inability to cease activity that causes harm, guilt, shame, or burn-out. [14]
3. Past Incarceration
Another critical factor in one’s susceptibility to radicalization, as concisely stated by Psychology Today, is that: “people who had been threatened, dehumanized, and perceived that they were discriminated against were more likely to become radicalized.” [10] This statement is key in examining the political extremism that has permeated our country, as the movements promoting radicalization prey on people by exploiting these very components.
In a study evaluating Left-Wing and Right-Wing domestic extremism between 1994 and 2020, there was one fatality as the result of Left-Wing extremism, versus 329 fatalities resulting from Far Right extremism in that 25 year period. [5]
The Far-Right movement is the oldest and most deadly form of domestic terrorism in the United States, and The Anti-Defamation League Center on Extremism found that the Far-Right is responsible for 98% of extremist murders in the U.S. [24] Furthermore, for nearly every year since 2011, Far-Right terrorist attacks/plots have accounted for over half of all terror attacks/plots in the United States. [21]
In the U.S., Right-Wing extremism was responsible for two-thirds of all failed, foiled, or successful terror attacks in 2019, and was responsible for 90% of attacks in the first half of 2020 alone. [21] Since 2013, Far-Right extremism has been responsible for more terror attacks/plots than the Left-Wing, ethnonationalism, or religiously motivated attacks/plots. [21]
Well said. The killer and his father are both victims of stochastic terrorism. Lots of people with blood on their hands and just this one patsy to hold accountable.
Funny how mental illness can do that.
Edit - Jfc people. Yes, murdering your father because you’re so deep down the conspiracy rabbithole is a very clear sign that you have serious untreated mental illness. Is that really that hard to understand?
And no, it’s not a get out jail free card. It’s identifying that propaganda preys on the mentally ill for indoctrination, and that a subset of the mentally ill are extraordinarily predisposed to violence as part of their condition.
No, no, just fucking no.
It was not mental illness that killed this man, it was his hateful asshole son.
I fucking hate this rethoric that just leads to more discrimination against people with an actual mental illness.
No, it is a legitimate mental illness.
I will lay a bet that if we were to perform a neuroimaging exam of this man’s brain, we would find a hypertrophic amygdala (which is the physical part of the brain that detects and classifies fear and threat responses) heavily primed to kick off a reaction in the limbic system. It’s a hair trigger over which you don’t have conscious control at that point. I will also guarantee he has a hypotrophied prefrontal cortex, which is the slower to react but more evolutionarily advanced part of the brain that’s supposed to keep all that stuff in check by asking “Is that what’s really happening?” and “What will happen to me if I do this?” There’s also a very solid chance we’d find evidence traumatic brain injury, with is present in 50%+ of persons in jail for violent crime and about 10% in the general population. We could do a blood work up, a DNA test, a psychological history, and so on.
We’re talking about structural, chemical, genetic, and psychological determinants. I don’t know how to classify that other than mental illness requiring treatment. I’m going to use a non-preferred term in its colloquial sense, but if a person is psychotic, you’re not going to punish them back to mental health.
Not everyone with mental illness is violent - almost none are. But people with these conditions are indeed mentally ill - it is a medical, not a moral condition - and until we approach it like that, we’re not going to be able to begin to address it.
I do not believe that we have free will, but I think in extreme cases like this you don’t even need to go that far. You’re no more going to fix a person like this morally than you’re going to cure epilepsy with an exorcism.
So you just used a whole lot of words why this dude might have mental illness after all.
Do you then also think that this is a totally cool and appropriate statement to make?
I just don’t.
Yes, it is my educated opinion that this person, for the reasons I outlined at a pretty high level, has mental illness.
No, I do not think that the other person’s statement was totally cool. I agree with you that it was insensitive and dismissive. I want to make it very clear that I’m not trying to invalidate the reaction that kind of comment inspires.
What I am saying is that we do not do the fields of medicine, mental health, or criminal justice reform any favors if we try to take the stance that mental illness has no role to play in these kinds of incidents.
Look, I’m a researcher. One of my primary areas of research is studying how susceptibility to contagious ideas like these cluster in social networks and how they’re exploited by the viral contagion between individuals as pushed by their peers and mass/social media. I can get all into sigmoid transfer functions from opinions to behavior and how they’re left-shifted by predispositions.
But my main, ethical point is that this is a medical problem, and we need to treat it like one. None of that casts aspersions or makes any assumptions whatsoever about the vast spectrum that constitutes what we broadly and often erroneously term “mental health.” It just means that people need psychological and medical interventions rather than life in prison or the electric chair.
Thank you for making this point. I agree; we must view behavior like this as needing help.
Even if he was mentally ill his specific fear of vaccines didn’t just materialize out of thin air. It’s not a get out of jail free card. Especially for the people who taught him to hate vaccines.
STOP FUCKING USING THAT STUPID FUCKING EXCUSE.
IT IS NOT MENTAL ILLNESS; IT IS STRAIGHT UP FASCIST PROPAGANDA
Read the edit. Tldr: it’s both
You’re so sickeningly wrong… Serious mental illness does not have the connection to violence you’re claiming. I wrote this article on my blog specifically to combat the harmful stigmatizing misinformation like you are claiming here. (I have ads turned off and don’t benefit in any way.)
An excerpt from my blog post:
The References
The following is an excerpt on the Far-Right violent extremism (such as this case) from another one of my blog posts
For the references
Well said. The killer and his father are both victims of stochastic terrorism. Lots of people with blood on their hands and just this one patsy to hold accountable.