Obviously I can understand why mysoginists are hated upon, As their belief is all women are trash or men are superior etc. But why are incels also generally hated upon? They are lacking in a way that makes them unable to gey in a relationship, but that shouldn’t necessarily mean they are mysoginists, right?
What am I missing here? I haven’t ever had a relationship with a woman, but I don’t hate all women either. I just consider myself unlucky. Does that make me an incel?
Im pretty sure an incel blames women for not being able to get a relationship.
Its the change in mental framing from “maybe i should work on myself” or “i just havent had the right opportunity” to more of a “women hold too much power over me and are playing with me” or “ive done everything right, women owe me this”Wikipedia sums it up better than i can:
Description of incels
The subculture is often characterized by deep resentment, hatred, hostility, sexual objectification, misogyny, misanthropy, self-pity and self-loathing, racism, a sense of entitlement to sex, blaming of women and the sexually successful for their situation (which is often seen as predetermined due to biological determinism, evolutionary genetics or a rigged game), a sense of futility and nihilism, rape culture, and the endorsement of sexual and nonsexual violence against women and sexually active people.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel
So, unless you find yourself blaming/resenting women, then you arent an incel. Your still just figuring things out like tge rest of us!
The term “Incel” started out as just meaning “involuntarily celibate”, referring to men who, like you and I, have struggled to form meaningful relationships with women.
The term actually originated in forums that were used as like a support group for men who were feeling alone, isolated, and alienated.
Unfortunately, if you get enough guys like that together, they might start riling eachother up and convincing each other that it’s not their fault, it’s the women’s fault. Remember, the one common trait among all these guys was a lack of ability to connect with a woman.
The word was coined by a woman and the support network she set up was for men and women. Until the space got taken over by bitter men blaming women for all their troubles and, here we are.
Came here to point this out, thanks for doing so.
For all others reading. This is the correct origin. It literally had actual, wholesome origins. That like almost everything, was ruined by selfish, entitled misogynist.
Same deal as “men’s rights advocates.” Initially there’s a defensible niche of aggrieved men - usually feeling that way as a direct result of machismo bullshit telling them what they must want (and what they must suppress) in order to “be a real man!” They’re vocal and hyper-aware of the problem but not emotionally equipped or educated enough to address systemic issues.
These groups are shockingly exploitable. Give them an easy answer and a lot of criticism devolves into shouting matches about that specific answer. That answer is also typically provided by machismo bullshit telling them that anyone besides manly men! being happy is a societal failure at the direct expense of aforementioned manly men!
This is, of course, fascism. This is inseparable from how irrational authoritarian bigotry always spreads. You find people mad at things they can’t easily change - you give them an outgroup to blame - you declare the stakes to be astronomical. It is exclusively an emotional manipulation that promotes hierarchy as a theory-of-everything in a zero-sum universe.
Hey, I don’t struggle to get meaningful relationships! Getting laid tho is a different case sadly
“Incel” doesn’t just mean someone who is involuntarily celibate.
It’s a bit like how “Democrat” doesn’t just mean someone who participates in a democracy and “pro-life” doesn’t just mean someone who likes life on earth.
Incels are a specific subculture, it has a violent misogynistic ideology and has spawned several mass murderers.
I am in a similar situation as you, I am 36 and have never been in a relationship, I don’t blame anyone, I am a bit sad about it when I think of it, but I can’t blame anyone for it, it is just circumstances.
I think that “incels” are defined by their feeling that they deserve a relationship with a woman, that they are being denied what they believe is rightfully theirs and that by just being polite they can convince a woman to fall into their arms.
I don’t concider myself an incel, for me based on circumstances if anything I have choosen to not persue a relationship, there are reasons for this, late maturity, being overweight, balding, concern for if I would find a woman who would be fine with me having zero experience in both day to day things as well as intimite moments.
But these are all problems that I have to work on, and I do my best with the tools I have.
Fwiw, about the zéro expérience thing, I hope you know that plenty of women would enjoy helping their partner explore how to share pleasure and day to day intimacy with them. Being inexperienced and realistic about it also means you won’t have that overconfidence that leads some men to disregard their partner’s personal likes, needs and body quirks, and that can be a very reassuring premise.
Source : this old crone was that woman once.
That is a very good point I had not considered, thank you!
Does that make me an incel?
Nope, it’s become a self identification ascribed to. Only defining feature of an imcel now is saying “I’m an incel”
And it happens to be that said communities are jam packed full of some extreme bigotry, hate, loathing, misogynistic behavior, etc etc.
Which means a person who identifies themselves with that crowd, can be assumed to be of the same cut of cloth.
In other words, a person like you would likely say “I haven’t been with a woman but I ain’t no incel though”, to signal you don’t identify with that culture.
Based on that last bit of your post, it sounds like you may actually not be that familiar with the incel community.
Short answer is that it goes much further than it seems at first glance. So,if you’re feeling unhappy about your prospects, I’d recommend looking into other communities for the sake of your mental health.
Honestly, just focusing on a hobby of some kind and making connections with the community surrounding it would be infinitely better for you.
The problem is, the word “involuntary” in incel puts the blame on those who won’t fuck them. It’s not their fault they haven’t had sex yet, it’s those who keep denying them. This gives them a reason not to have to change their behaviors or thoughts, which keeps them undesirable. That’s why they’re frowned upon.
Basically it’s the mindset of the Chalmers meme that makes an incel.
Am I doing something that actively repulses women?
No, it’s the women who are wrong
As long as you don’t subscribe to this line of reasoning, you aren’t an incel
Exactly. Incel is not another word for vergin, there are tons of vergins who aren’t incels.
I’d argue that not being a virgin also doesn’t prevent you from becoming an incel. You just weren’t always one.
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The term “involuntary” means that they’re not chosing to be single or sexless, but that forces outside of their control is causing it. But something has to cause it, and it’s the attitude that women have that they usually blame. The problem is that their own issues are what cause the celibacy, of which they refuse to change. It’s a lot easier for most people to but the blame outside of their control.
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What I will however say is that the dating market can be very harsh, especially for men, and especially those that doesn’t look the best.
This has come up a few times but I’m going to pick this one to reply to. Looks aren’t zero important, but your actual body is far less important than grooming, dress, posture, and other related things that are far easier to change.
Related, have you seen how men act? Like ask a woman-who-dates-men friend what it’s like on tinder. The bar is on the floor my dudes. With some bare minimum treating the other person like a person, being sincere and present, you’re so far above the average.
Except some of us are treated like absolute garbage because of this definition. I’m just quiet and chill so somehow that gets defined as creepy. I’ve taken to just treating people as a reflection of how they treat me. Like I’m not even looking and I get treated as creepy I’d like to be in a relationship, but it really isn’t a requirement for me to be fulfilled. This really messes with my self esteem and makes me not want to talk to people for the most part.
I can’t speak to your creepiness, but as long as you put the onus on yourself as to why you’re single and don’t blame others, I wouldn’t call you an incel. Do you call yourself an incel?
No I don’t call myself an incel, but the definition has been detrimental to my daily life… Like of I’m out in public not with a girl just doing things as normal I get this stigma and dirty looks.
Can you give an example?
Honestly, it sounds like an anxiety disorder. No one is looking at men walking around without a partner wondering why a partner isn’t with them,. No one expects people to be with their partners all the time.
It’s definitely tough when you get criticised just for chilling out. My advice is to try and not be offended by those comments unless they come from people close or important to you. Ask yourself: why does their opinion matter/what value does it actually have? Is it jyst a throwaway comment from a e.g. stranger or friend of a friend of a friend. You do not need other’s opinions to validate yourself, so long as you’re not causing harm to anyone else, keep doing what you’re doing because it’s good for you and leave the busibodies to their ignorant opinion and to waste only their time and effort on it, not yours.
Ps you share my broad approach of treating others well if they treat me well. Thumbs up for that!
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. I’m just quiet and chill so somehow that gets defined as creepy.
This was me in college! And then I realized I was dressing like a weird hippy with a terrible haircut and gross beard. That stuff was a much bigger factor than being quiet.
I haven’t ever had a relationship with a woman, but I don’t hate all women either. I just consider myself unlucky. Does that make me an incel?
No, if you don’t hate women you’re not an incel.
No one is entitled to sex. That is not a right anyone has. Thus, the only way to be involuntarily celibate is being force to become a monk under threat or something. The idea that people are entitled to receive the love/sex/intimacy of others is fucked up and betrays the fundamental trust implied by consent. Which is the right of everyone involved to refuse, withdraw, or straight up remove themselves from participating in an intimate situation, at any time, without the need to provide any sort of explanation or justification.
The proposal that these people are entitled to sex gives rapey vibes and naturally generates disgusts in anyone who thinks rationally about the proposition for more than a minute. Because of the implication.
An “incel” is inherently and unavoidably misogynistic. The concept of being “involuntarily” celibate is implying that it is the other woman (or man) at “fault” for not allowing the incel man (or woman) to have sex when the incel very much wants to. Being an “incel” absolves the user of the term of any and all responsibility for their condition and is basically an admission that they will never work to improve themselves or make themselves into an attractive option for their desired mate. It turns their target into a complete sexual object without any other considerations for their own desires.
You can be single and celibate without being an incel. That is just called being single, but open to a relationship or casual sex. It’s also called being a normal ass human being who can hold a conversation and develop normal human connections without viewing anyone or everyone as just a slab of meat to be obtained.
Great answer, and to add to this:
There’s a world of difference between someone who’s single, not satisfied with it, and actively desiring/seeking a relationship (single and looking) and someone who actively self-identifies as inherently doomed to be single due to the actions/perceptions of others (incel).
People in the former category NEVER call themselves incels.
Yup! It’s a self fulfilling prophecy life, and then they wonder why they’re so lonely.
Exactly. The issue with incels is that they actively do nothing to improve their chances in the dating world, and then instead of looking inward, blame women for their own shortcomings. “I’m a stupid moron with an ugly face and big butt and my butt smells and… women should still want to fuck me because I’m owed sex.”
Fuck these people.
I feel that your second sentence is too narrow. It goes beyond blaming a woman (or man). It includes society in general and/or any external construct or group. They may blame genetics, the patriarchy, feminism, or whatever other Boogeyman they want.
The underlying issue is that they are absolving themselves of any blame and refusing to accept themselves as the cause. It’s unsurprising that this very concept is often a self perpetuating issue. Their incel mentality and refusal of accepting any responsibility pushes any potential women (or men) from a desire to be in a relationship with them. It also builds an “us vs them” mentality that is reinforced by the echo chamber communities they build for themselves.
This is vey true, they have almost as much as a hate-on for sexually successful men (‘chads’) as they do women in general (‘staceys’)
Yes, I suppose they can target basically any group, which makes my initial description too narrow. But I was focusing on addressing OP’s concerns of misogyny, which is gender focused.
The echo chamber is a very big part of it, you’re right. The more validation they receive for thinking that the “other people” are the problem, the more they think it’s okay to do.
Lots of good posts here so far. Something I haven’t seen mentioned is incel fascination with what is essentially phrenology. “My jaw is only 34% as prominent as the ideal and therefore I will never know the touch of a woman”.
It’s a loser mentality for losers. They are projecting it onto themselves.
You’ve already had some great answers, but I’ll just leave another point here for you to consider - they are literal terrorists.
Not one, but several have used their “inceldom” in their manifestos before going on mass shootings (often targeting, or trying to target women exclusively) and many other shooters were active members of incel forums (and many active incel forum users who still haven’t gone on a shooting spree openly talk about going on one).
I will strongly second whenigrowup356 - stay as far away from these people and their spaces as possible, they are toxic violent terrorists, and you should not only not want anything to do with them, but also not let them convince you to feel sorry for them, because as opposed to what they call themselves, the state they are in is anything but “involuntary”.
The hatred of women from them.
And the black pill element making it essentially a death cult
I’ve never encountered an incel that wasn’t misogynistic. Generally they blame women for their lack of sex.
I blame my looks and bank account for lack of sex.
Have you tried lowering your standards?
I don’t want to be condescending or patronising, however: looks are less important than personal hygene, personal care and charisma, three things that can be acquired quite easily as there is a lot of literarure on all of them. Money certainly enables you to get better clothes and widen your horizons, but alone it will not do much for you. The most important thing though is certainly hygene. And remember that when you go out with someone the first time, usually what they are trying to understand is if you are completely deranged or viable human material. Try to fit the second category and you’ll do great. Poor people and ugly people also get laid, so that’s not an excuse.
It is generally used to reffer to men who blame women for themselves not being able to get into relationships, not everyone who isn’t in a relationship
