For decades, weed’s deleterious health effects were exaggerated, experts said, leading to excessive criminalization
This line fron the article is exactly why I’m skeptical. I had to sit through tons of middle school and high school programs that lied to me about the physiological effects of marijuana. This article itself opens with an anecdote about one individual, but fails to identify any academic study suggesting physiological addiction because… There is none.
Psychological addiction is real. There’s a reason that in most places any gambling advertisements have to include a warning and a hotline. The problem is that these sensationalist articles never make the distinction between psychological and physiological addiction. This article mentions when the case study first tried marijuana, but fails to detail the circumstances of her life, her personality, and other factors that can contribute to psychological addiction.
Add in that the medical marijuana industry is trying to replace the very physiological addictive (and profitable) pain medications… Add that to the years of lies in schools and media… Forgive me for not trusting this BS at all.
You’re right not to trust this BS at all. It’s straight up reefer madness propaganda. It’s widely acknowledged that anything pleasurable can be addictive, that doesn’t mean we need to ban gambling or alcohol or weed.
After about 8 years of daily smoking (and slowly smoking more and more because of tolerance building up) I decided to quit for various reasons.
I’m at about 10 days off cold turkey and I’m still struggling a lot. At the beginning was a big loss of appetite, trouble going to sleep and obviously the psychological desire to smoke. The worst part for me though is the intense anxiety, irritability and the lack of motivation to do anything. It feels like falling back into depression and slowly try crawling out of it.
Really disappointing to see so many people in here denying what I’m going through. Yes there’s always been propaganda against using, but there’s still some truth to it. I’m still glad that it’s legal here in Canada because it did help me at one point, but like every drug, you have to be careful.
All of these things you describe are very real but they’re not physical withdrawal symptoms, but indeed psychological. The mind is a very powerful thing, so these effects can be very powerful, I’m not trying to dismiss your experience. However they are not the same as for example withdrawal from heroin or heavy alcoholism, both of which create actual physical pain and potentially death.
Every individual is different too, so people sharing how they can be heavy smokers and stop while on vacation for a few weeks without issues aren’t trying to dismiss your experience, just like how you shouldn’t dismiss theirs.
I’ve known physical withdrawal in the past and am a daily smoker now, I’m also one of those that can just stop on vacation no big deal, but I seldom skip a day at home.
They’re downplaying them possibly because you can’t die from marijuana withdrawal. It’s physically impossible, you can experience nasty side effects but you will live. Compare that to a heroin addict, pain pill, or alcoholic who has a high chance of literally dying if they stop cold turkey.
Talk to those with withdrawal symptoms from “real” problem drugs and it won’t even sound like the same experience. The other side is too, you’re approaching this pretty unscientifically. It’s possible you actually ARE depressed and aren’t use to feeling it full force because you were self medicating for years.
I’m not the biggest smoker, but still a few grams a day and withdrawal is real. There is a physical side to it, it’s pretty mild like with coffee but it’s certainly unenjoyable.
Addiction is addiction. Whether you’re addicted because you took a drug that your brain now depends on, or you’ve gotten used to doing something that makes you happy and your brain depends on the stimulus to make the happy juice, addiction is a physiological response. The effects on your brain are chemical. Your addiction is marked by the changes in thinking to seek and obtain your particular “high” in whatever form your brain needs, and you will experience withdrawal if you stop.
Some substances and activities are highly addictive, because they are designed to be. Marijuana is more potent than ever, and the experience of shopping for different strains and trying all the “flavors” is itself a little reward system.
People want to make distinctions between chemical addiction and psychological addiction, and there are differences, but addiction is addiction.
I think you may be trivializing a pretty complex subject a bit too much
There is a major difference between our coloqual addictions (sugar, caffeine, our phones) and a substance use disorder. It’s worth talking about where on that spectrum marijuana lies
For my part, I suspect that marijuana is much closer to the former than the latter.
I’ve worked with a lot of people in recovery over the years, and while some ex-stoners will tell you how hard it was for them to quit, anyone with a real habit will tell you quitting weed isn’t anywhere near the same level as opiates, benzos, amphetamines, alcohol, or even nicotine
So addiction is a word so broad as to be practically meaningless, is what you’re saying.
Maybe start by not assuming everyone has normal brain chemistry. As someone whose brain couldn’t make “happy juice” on its own for years (I have a problem processing folate, which is an ingredient in a bunch of brain chemicals), if I hadn’t smoked weed before I found out what was wrong, I wouldn’t have lived long enough to do so.
Also, rat studies indicate that environment plays a large role in the symptoms we see as addiction - the inability to stop, constantly seeking more of the drug, etc. These symptoms tend to stop when the rats had adequate engagement, weren’t overcrowded, etc. Even when they continued to have access to the drug, they tended to stop.
We saw something similar in humans after Vietnam. The soldiers over there were doing any and everything to avoid the horrors of war. Even when they came back with PTSD, we didn’t see a huge uptick in drug addiction. This requires a lot more study, but there are some pretty good indications that people get addicted when their lives suck and they don’t see any workable options available to change their situation. Addiction may be a disease based in despair more than an innate status in the brain.
Very anecdotal, but I know multiple people who are addicted. Could very well be psychological, but if they go more than a day or two without smoking they are terrible to be around. Which sucks because I’m stuck with
A) don’t be around them
B) be around them while they are baked and smell
C) be around them while they are terrible
I’ve been sticking with A for the time being, but it sucks because I feel like I’ve already lost a few friends when I stopped smoking and it seems like that is their whole life.
Crazy that you’re getting downvoted for this. I smoke occasionally, but used to smoke daily and had to quit cold turkey for over a year. I now (almost 3 years since I first stopped cold turkey) refuse to have any marijuana on me and only smoke on the occasion that I’m out with friends and it’s offered to me. That ends up being about one toke a month. Irritability and bad mood for chronic smokers when they haven’t smoked enough to get withdrawals is common enough (anecdotally from my own experience quitting and seeing others around me struggling with it as well).
Especially if someone has quit and finds the smell off-putting or doesn’t like to be around people who are either constantly baked or very irritable, this point of view is perfectly valid and adds to the conversation. Don’t downvote just because you personally disagree.
I’ve got nothing against smoking. I I have friends who still smoke, and the ones who aren’t addicted it isn’t a problem. A toke here and there to catch a buzz is no issue. It’s when it’s all the time, they can’t go without it, and they always smell like you just hotboxed something. I just don’t wanna be around that.
If the only way you can live your life is to be stoned 24/7, and you are a grouch going off the handle at every little thing without it, it would probably be best.
I’ve got nothing against smoking weed, but just like I don’t want to be around someone piss drunk all the time I don’t want to be around someone who is blitzed all the time. There is a time and a place.
That’s not me, but I don’t really feel like it’s particularly helpful to be in someone’s life if that’s the way you look at it. Especially if it’s a situation where your own standards have changed while theirs haven’t.
Honestly, I don’t really want to be spending my time around people who look down on me at all, full stop. Whatever the reason they may have, why have people in your life socially whose company you don’t enjoy? I used to put up with a lot of that, largely when I was broke and directionless, but it’s not really worth it. There are so many people out there, why not find some who are on the same page?
That doesn’t have to attempt to be a position of moral superiority or putting your nose up about lack of responsibility. It can just not be a good fit. Lots of people aren’t a good fit for one another.
It’s just a support network… peers that believe in you to do better things.
If you can’t take criticism then you have every right to shut out people who are concerned about you and toke instead.
I personally felt bad about myself when I was using weed to medicate. What was freedom became something I couldn’t escape from. Many people might not want to be where they are and want help to function. You never know if that person needs support.
On the other hand if you are functioning and know that you’ve earned what you enjoy, you can probably handle someone voicing concern.
I used weed to medicate when every drug my doctors gave me failed for years. Because of smoking weed every day for years, I lived long enough to take things that actually treat my problem, and was immediately able to drop my weed consumption as much as I liked. I do it maybe 2-3 times a week now. How do you tell someone who’s addicted from someone using it to medicate something else when nothing’s available, from the outside?
I also think the word “addiction” is so broadly used as to be practically useless at this point. I could stop weed, no problem. If I try to get off lithium, withdrawal city. But you don’t hear people talking about lithium addiction. Plus, if we’re using the same word for responses to heroin, weed, and porn, we need better vocabulary.
Yeah keep away from people who look down on you or others, they’re doing it because they’re angry at you/the world and they will take it out on you every chance they get - doesn’t matter if their excuse is that you smoke, don’t dress how they like, listen to the wrong music for them, aren’t green enough or are too green… If they look down on you they will work to make their emotions reality by pushing you down.
I think this is your bias showing. Coffee addictions is way way way way WAY more comment than cannabis addiction. And yes, people on a caffeine high do act stupid and yes coffee fucking stinks. I’m guessing you drink coffee yourself?
A lot of people don’t realise this but he lives in a mansion and mostly does art every day, he’s not living a party lifestyle anymore and hasn’t for quite a while - it’s just the same equation we’ve seen time and time again; rich = great healthcare + relaxation = longevity and health. Like how Elon looks younger and healthier than he did 25 years ago, it’s just money.
The other thing that’s kind of questionable was that she was able to stop during her pregnancy. Like, when she knew she really had to stop, she did. This is basically in the same level as video game addiction. It’s not the drug. It’s the situation. Sure, she should be able to get help, but it’s not really marijuana specific help she needs
Marijuana is considered physiologically addictive.
From UpToDate:
In a national survey of 1527 cannabis users who reported at least three times per week use, the most common symptoms of withdrawal were sleep difficulty (14 percent), irritability or anger (14 percent), anxiety (13 percent), headache (12 percent), and depressed mood (11 percent). Other symptoms such as restlessness, decreased appetite or weight loss, abdominal pain, shaking or tremors, sweating, and fever or chills have been described.
I agree. From my personal experience, I smoke daily and each time I’ve travelled internationally, where I can’t bring my legal weed, I always suffer from poor sleep for a good week or so. It’s nothing serious but it’s noticeable.
I know for sure one of the flights was 1hr 15min and just 1 time zone away so I don’t think jet lag was an issue that time but it could have made it worse. When I went to Cuba which was 6+ hours and 2 time zones away, yeah, I can jet lag being more an issue but I’m certain it’s a lack of weed.
i started smoking because i have mucle pain every day (muscular disbalance) basecally my mucels are to short and i because i liked the affect. it’s been around a year and a half in that time i noticed beleave it or not (i don’t care) my memory got better and i’m much happier mostly because i don’t have to take pain killer that often. if i don’t have any other than not being able to be very active(because of pain) i don’t notice it to much of curse i sometimes then think it would be nice to smoke one but that dosen’t happen to often. at least for me being a stoner and being lazy dosen’t apply at all i’m a mechanikalengeneer (i did an apprenticeship) and now i’m doing a second one as a programmer.
This line fron the article is exactly why I’m skeptical. I had to sit through tons of middle school and high school programs that lied to me about the physiological effects of marijuana. This article itself opens with an anecdote about one individual, but fails to identify any academic study suggesting physiological addiction because… There is none.
Psychological addiction is real. There’s a reason that in most places any gambling advertisements have to include a warning and a hotline. The problem is that these sensationalist articles never make the distinction between psychological and physiological addiction. This article mentions when the case study first tried marijuana, but fails to detail the circumstances of her life, her personality, and other factors that can contribute to psychological addiction.
Add in that the medical marijuana industry is trying to replace the very physiological addictive (and profitable) pain medications… Add that to the years of lies in schools and media… Forgive me for not trusting this BS at all.
I had hoped there would be a significant study I could read but it’s just the same reefer madness we’ve seen for decades.
It will be great when it’s finally fully legal and we can do real science on it.
You’re right not to trust this BS at all. It’s straight up reefer madness propaganda. It’s widely acknowledged that anything pleasurable can be addictive, that doesn’t mean we need to ban gambling or alcohol or weed.
Nah fam. I’m addicted, trust me. Trouble eating, sleeping, keeping food down. Have to titration down super slowly or get intense cravings. It sucks.
After about 8 years of daily smoking (and slowly smoking more and more because of tolerance building up) I decided to quit for various reasons.
I’m at about 10 days off cold turkey and I’m still struggling a lot. At the beginning was a big loss of appetite, trouble going to sleep and obviously the psychological desire to smoke. The worst part for me though is the intense anxiety, irritability and the lack of motivation to do anything. It feels like falling back into depression and slowly try crawling out of it.
Really disappointing to see so many people in here denying what I’m going through. Yes there’s always been propaganda against using, but there’s still some truth to it. I’m still glad that it’s legal here in Canada because it did help me at one point, but like every drug, you have to be careful.
All of these things you describe are very real but they’re not physical withdrawal symptoms, but indeed psychological. The mind is a very powerful thing, so these effects can be very powerful, I’m not trying to dismiss your experience. However they are not the same as for example withdrawal from heroin or heavy alcoholism, both of which create actual physical pain and potentially death.
Every individual is different too, so people sharing how they can be heavy smokers and stop while on vacation for a few weeks without issues aren’t trying to dismiss your experience, just like how you shouldn’t dismiss theirs.
I’ve known physical withdrawal in the past and am a daily smoker now, I’m also one of those that can just stop on vacation no big deal, but I seldom skip a day at home.
They’re downplaying them possibly because you can’t die from marijuana withdrawal. It’s physically impossible, you can experience nasty side effects but you will live. Compare that to a heroin addict, pain pill, or alcoholic who has a high chance of literally dying if they stop cold turkey.
Talk to those with withdrawal symptoms from “real” problem drugs and it won’t even sound like the same experience. The other side is too, you’re approaching this pretty unscientifically. It’s possible you actually ARE depressed and aren’t use to feeling it full force because you were self medicating for years.
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I’m not the biggest smoker, but still a few grams a day and withdrawal is real. There is a physical side to it, it’s pretty mild like with coffee but it’s certainly unenjoyable.
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I smoke half an ounce a day. People expect me to be lazy, but I’m fully functional. I just can’t get out of bed if I DONT smoke lol.
You need one of those coffee mugs that’s like “Don’t talk to me until I’ve had my coffee” but with coffee marked out and replaced with weed.
Lmaooo facts
Addiction is addiction. Whether you’re addicted because you took a drug that your brain now depends on, or you’ve gotten used to doing something that makes you happy and your brain depends on the stimulus to make the happy juice, addiction is a physiological response. The effects on your brain are chemical. Your addiction is marked by the changes in thinking to seek and obtain your particular “high” in whatever form your brain needs, and you will experience withdrawal if you stop.
Some substances and activities are highly addictive, because they are designed to be. Marijuana is more potent than ever, and the experience of shopping for different strains and trying all the “flavors” is itself a little reward system.
People want to make distinctions between chemical addiction and psychological addiction, and there are differences, but addiction is addiction.
I think you may be trivializing a pretty complex subject a bit too much
There is a major difference between our coloqual addictions (sugar, caffeine, our phones) and a substance use disorder. It’s worth talking about where on that spectrum marijuana lies
For my part, I suspect that marijuana is much closer to the former than the latter.
I’ve worked with a lot of people in recovery over the years, and while some ex-stoners will tell you how hard it was for them to quit, anyone with a real habit will tell you quitting weed isn’t anywhere near the same level as opiates, benzos, amphetamines, alcohol, or even nicotine
So addiction is a word so broad as to be practically meaningless, is what you’re saying.
Maybe start by not assuming everyone has normal brain chemistry. As someone whose brain couldn’t make “happy juice” on its own for years (I have a problem processing folate, which is an ingredient in a bunch of brain chemicals), if I hadn’t smoked weed before I found out what was wrong, I wouldn’t have lived long enough to do so.
I honestly have no idea what version of what I said you’re arguing with.
This this this.
Also, rat studies indicate that environment plays a large role in the symptoms we see as addiction - the inability to stop, constantly seeking more of the drug, etc. These symptoms tend to stop when the rats had adequate engagement, weren’t overcrowded, etc. Even when they continued to have access to the drug, they tended to stop.
We saw something similar in humans after Vietnam. The soldiers over there were doing any and everything to avoid the horrors of war. Even when they came back with PTSD, we didn’t see a huge uptick in drug addiction. This requires a lot more study, but there are some pretty good indications that people get addicted when their lives suck and they don’t see any workable options available to change their situation. Addiction may be a disease based in despair more than an innate status in the brain.
Very anecdotal, but I know multiple people who are addicted. Could very well be psychological, but if they go more than a day or two without smoking they are terrible to be around. Which sucks because I’m stuck with
A) don’t be around them
B) be around them while they are baked and smell
C) be around them while they are terrible
I’ve been sticking with A for the time being, but it sucks because I feel like I’ve already lost a few friends when I stopped smoking and it seems like that is their whole life.
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Crazy that you’re getting downvoted for this. I smoke occasionally, but used to smoke daily and had to quit cold turkey for over a year. I now (almost 3 years since I first stopped cold turkey) refuse to have any marijuana on me and only smoke on the occasion that I’m out with friends and it’s offered to me. That ends up being about one toke a month. Irritability and bad mood for chronic smokers when they haven’t smoked enough to get withdrawals is common enough (anecdotally from my own experience quitting and seeing others around me struggling with it as well).
Especially if someone has quit and finds the smell off-putting or doesn’t like to be around people who are either constantly baked or very irritable, this point of view is perfectly valid and adds to the conversation. Don’t downvote just because you personally disagree.
I’ve got nothing against smoking. I I have friends who still smoke, and the ones who aren’t addicted it isn’t a problem. A toke here and there to catch a buzz is no issue. It’s when it’s all the time, they can’t go without it, and they always smell like you just hotboxed something. I just don’t wanna be around that.
Honestly, if I found out one of my friends saw me this way I’d rather they just get out of my life.
If the only way you can live your life is to be stoned 24/7, and you are a grouch going off the handle at every little thing without it, it would probably be best.
I’ve got nothing against smoking weed, but just like I don’t want to be around someone piss drunk all the time I don’t want to be around someone who is blitzed all the time. There is a time and a place.
That’s not me, but I don’t really feel like it’s particularly helpful to be in someone’s life if that’s the way you look at it. Especially if it’s a situation where your own standards have changed while theirs haven’t.
Honestly, I don’t really want to be spending my time around people who look down on me at all, full stop. Whatever the reason they may have, why have people in your life socially whose company you don’t enjoy? I used to put up with a lot of that, largely when I was broke and directionless, but it’s not really worth it. There are so many people out there, why not find some who are on the same page?
That doesn’t have to attempt to be a position of moral superiority or putting your nose up about lack of responsibility. It can just not be a good fit. Lots of people aren’t a good fit for one another.
It’s just a support network… peers that believe in you to do better things.
If you can’t take criticism then you have every right to shut out people who are concerned about you and toke instead.
I personally felt bad about myself when I was using weed to medicate. What was freedom became something I couldn’t escape from. Many people might not want to be where they are and want help to function. You never know if that person needs support.
On the other hand if you are functioning and know that you’ve earned what you enjoy, you can probably handle someone voicing concern.
I used weed to medicate when every drug my doctors gave me failed for years. Because of smoking weed every day for years, I lived long enough to take things that actually treat my problem, and was immediately able to drop my weed consumption as much as I liked. I do it maybe 2-3 times a week now. How do you tell someone who’s addicted from someone using it to medicate something else when nothing’s available, from the outside?
I also think the word “addiction” is so broadly used as to be practically useless at this point. I could stop weed, no problem. If I try to get off lithium, withdrawal city. But you don’t hear people talking about lithium addiction. Plus, if we’re using the same word for responses to heroin, weed, and porn, we need better vocabulary.
Yeah keep away from people who look down on you or others, they’re doing it because they’re angry at you/the world and they will take it out on you every chance they get - doesn’t matter if their excuse is that you smoke, don’t dress how they like, listen to the wrong music for them, aren’t green enough or are too green… If they look down on you they will work to make their emotions reality by pushing you down.
So are you the same with people who need to be caffeinated 24/7 and are irritable asshole if they dont get their coffee?
I’ve met much fewer people like that, and when they do get their coffee they aren’t acting stupid and smelly.
I think this is your bias showing. Coffee addictions is way way way way WAY more comment than cannabis addiction. And yes, people on a caffeine high do act stupid and yes coffee fucking stinks. I’m guessing you drink coffee yourself?
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And then there’s Keith Richards…
Yes, but we’re talking about humans, not whatever Keith must be.
A lot of people don’t realise this but he lives in a mansion and mostly does art every day, he’s not living a party lifestyle anymore and hasn’t for quite a while - it’s just the same equation we’ve seen time and time again; rich = great healthcare + relaxation = longevity and health. Like how Elon looks younger and healthier than he did 25 years ago, it’s just money.
The other thing that’s kind of questionable was that she was able to stop during her pregnancy. Like, when she knew she really had to stop, she did. This is basically in the same level as video game addiction. It’s not the drug. It’s the situation. Sure, she should be able to get help, but it’s not really marijuana specific help she needs
Marijuana is considered physiologically addictive.
From UpToDate:
I agree. From my personal experience, I smoke daily and each time I’ve travelled internationally, where I can’t bring my legal weed, I always suffer from poor sleep for a good week or so. It’s nothing serious but it’s noticeable.
Do you think that could have just been jet lag?
I know for sure one of the flights was 1hr 15min and just 1 time zone away so I don’t think jet lag was an issue that time but it could have made it worse. When I went to Cuba which was 6+ hours and 2 time zones away, yeah, I can jet lag being more an issue but I’m certain it’s a lack of weed.
It’s a “gateway” drug is my personal favourite. Yeah marijuana may not be as bad a heroin but it leads to heroin so you know, don’t do it!
Hey don’t eat that carrot! Why? It’s a gateway food to candy!
🤦♂️
i started smoking because i have mucle pain every day (muscular disbalance) basecally my mucels are to short and i because i liked the affect. it’s been around a year and a half in that time i noticed beleave it or not (i don’t care) my memory got better and i’m much happier mostly because i don’t have to take pain killer that often. if i don’t have any other than not being able to be very active(because of pain) i don’t notice it to much of curse i sometimes then think it would be nice to smoke one but that dosen’t happen to often. at least for me being a stoner and being lazy dosen’t apply at all i’m a mechanikalengeneer (i did an apprenticeship) and now i’m doing a second one as a programmer.