cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ca/post/17439723
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ca/post/17439722
Palestinian Territory – Israel’s army has again massacred Palestinian civilians who had gathered in Gaza to obtain humanitarian aid, targeting them with gunfire from helicopters, tanks, and drones near the Kuwait roundabout on the outskirts of Gaza City. This incident has resulted in over 60 deaths and 160 injuries, some of which are critical.
Is there any point at which the US would allow international pressure to end this genocide? When does it become strategically disadvantageous?
No because they’re the ones sponsoring it
LOOKS LIKE THE LEMMY CENORS ARE OUT IN FULL FORCE
This is the comment that I made that got removed:
No.
Always. We literally had 9/11 because of Israel and still haven’t learned our lesson.
We are literally not allowed to say 9/11 happened because of Israel, despite the mastermind behind the attack literally saying that’s why he did it AND I even provided the source!
https://lemmy.world/comment/8465732
There are some horrible mods on this team with a clear agenda. We cannot trust them.
On Hexbear, mods will remove any mention of 9/11 in remembrance of Salvador Allende and the CIA backed Chilean coup. /s
The fact he said what was the reason of doing it does not mean he was right.
Removed by mod
Hmm. How is 9/11 because isreal?
https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ubl2016/english/To the American people.pdf
Straight from the horse’s mouth, Osama bin Laden.
Damn son. He was very clear. I have never seen that document. He even concludes with it:
In conclusion: Be assured that we do not fight for mere killing but to stop the killing of our people. It is a sin to kill a person without proper, justifiable cause, but terminating his killer is a right. You should be aware that justice is the strongest army and security offers the best livelihood; you lost it by your own making when you supported the Israelis in occupying our land and killing our brothers in Palestine. The road to safety starts with the stopping of aggression.
It went viral on tiktok a few years ago and they started banning anyone who shared it.
The propaganda war goes both ways, but a lot of useful idiots don’t realize that.
I think it’s sad how most people, including myself, only saw it after it went viral and not before we invaded.
Edit: It’s even sadder because my original comment highlighting how 9/11 happened because of Israel was removed.
This is what I mean by propaganda and indoctrination. There are even people on the mod team that have a vested interest in keeping the truth from people’s eyes if it’s inconvenient for Israel.
May I ask who this is a quote from? Is this also Bin Laden?
It’s from the link above I think that’s him yeah
(https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ubl2016/english/To the American people.pdf)
Against lobbyists, thought killing was only justified in extreme conditions, was worried about climate change. These aren’t from the Bin Laden I have heard of…
Thank you for the link.
Right? It’s not like the people who perpetrated 9/11 actually told us exactly why they did it… Oh wait…
Eh man, I was barely born around that time. I had never seen or heard of the documents
Once the job is done.
West will never stop supporting Israel. It’s just still more advantageous to tolerate its war crimes rather than having states like Iran and terrorist groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah with nuclear weapons.
The current government of Iran and Hamas are both reactions caused by US meddling in the Middle East. The CIA actively led a campaign to get Iranians to turn on a democratic government -> supported Reza Shah -> which lead to the 1979 revolution which established the current government.
So what should US do? Calmly sit down and shout: “We are bad, please kill us.”
Edit: Also, what you are essentially doing is picking a specific point of time in history, dubbing a it a root cause and then you excuse the other side’s actions. By this logic, let’s blame the city of Rome for the conflict in the middle east because if Romans hadn’t forced out jews thousands years ago, this wouldn’t have happened. So all Israel’s war crimes are actually Romans’ fault, so now let’s collectively blame them.
Not build a country on land in use. If you can’t do that, at least leave them alone. Not a single West Bank city can develop anymore since it would just collide into the area near the settlements (which would lead to getting shot). At least leave them alone.
I’m not sure what you mean by this? Maybe you are confusing me with someone else?
The Jews did come back already, a long time ago. Then they converted to Christianity and then to Islam: https://www.pbs.org/empires/romans/empire/jews.html
This is technically anti-Semitic. Not all Jews are the same. Some are black, some are white, some are Middle Eastern.
Not as long as Democrat politicians know they can continue to count on our votes while they take money from the Zionist lobby and do their bidding. But don’t you dare suggest not voting for Genocide Joe on here. Anyone who would suggest such a thing must be an astroturfing Trump troll. After all, what’s a little genocide in the big picture?
PS: The Zionist lobby isn’t an antisemitic dog whistle. In the US, the Zionist lobby probably gets more support from rabid fundamentalist Christians who think Israel’s ascendancy will trigger the end times than from Jews. That’s been true since the Blackstone Memorial was circulated in 1891.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone_Memorial
Why are you acting like Trump wouldn’t support the genocide? It’s not a choice between genocide and not, so yes you are in fact just trolling for trump.
This isn’t the trolley problem. We have other options. We could force Biden to step aside and have an open convention. If that doesn’t happen, I’ll vote for Cornel West or Jill Stein or Claudia De la Cruz.
Ok Dimitri, please tell us how you’ll vote in a US election as a Russian living in St Petersburg?
Well I guess he’s definitely voting for Biden after calling them a Russian troll. Great job 👏
They always land on ad hominem attacks in the end. Very compelling stuff
I somehow have a Russian and Chinese dual citizenship as a bot. 🤖 /s
Nationalism is a helluva drug.
Grow up.
It’s not that Trump wouldn’t support the genocide, he certainly would. But as long as Democrats feel they can also support the genocide without repercussions, they will do so to enrich themselves. Republicans aren’t going to change, there’s little point trying to push them on this. But if democrats think that this issue is the difference between winning and losing an election (and thus potentially limiting their ability to enrich themselves), there’s a smidge of a chance they’d at least cut funding or something.
Cool strategy bro. Let’s play Chicken with our politics. That’s some real 4D chess there.
I mean, it’s not like our entire political infrastructure and way of lives could be determined by the next election.
You’re right, I guess we need to do nothing while thousands of children slowly starve to death before our eyes. I suppose it’s just a sacrifice we have to make.
This is dumb.
Destroying your own livelihood is not going to stop the Gazan Massacre. It’d be like if you threatened to burn down your local hospital if they don’t start admitting more uninsured people. Your actions will help no one, and make things worse for everyone.
You want to fix a problem? Then take steps to actually fixing them. Not threatening to destroy everything around you like a fucking child.
How’s this, why don’t you go burn down your home or your parents home as a form of protest. It’ll really make a message about the destroyed homes in Gaza. Oh, your not going to do it? I guess your just as bad as I am. Hypocrite.
Me: Don’t vote for someone guilty of genocide
You: Burn down your house or you’re a hypocrite
Yes, ignore any other logic in my post, and just hyperfixate on the end. Lol you’re just a troll at this point. Your logic sucks and it’s clear that all your trying to do is get people to not vote for Biden.
Go be a troll elsewhere.
No one wants to hear it discussed because it’s a fucking dumb strategy, like, what effect do you think it’ll actually have? You vote for the guy that’s most likely to actually do something about it rather than vote to sink the entire fucking ship because your having a temper tantrum. You’re insane if you think that’s even a remotely viable strategy. I can’t believe you’re even bringing it up like it’s a “good” idea…like wtf.
You can check my post history. I’m rabidly against this genocide. The IDF has gone unchecked and their treatment of an “enemy populace” is a fucking warcrime. Something needs to be done. But if you think for a second that I or any other rational adult here is going to even remotely humor the idea of doing something that could get Trump elected, you are out of your damned mind.
The entire fucking ship is committing a genocide
No, we’re not commiting a genocide. There’s just not enough pressure to stop a strategic ally (that’s armed with nukes, mind you) from doing horrific actions. There’s been a shit ton of verbal posturing from all of our allies over this, but no one else has done a damned thing either. I’m not going to tank my country because of it either. What does that accomplish? Congratulations bro, your morally superior. Hope that’ll keep you chipper in the American gulag if Trumpelstiltskin gets elected.
You’re arguing with a Kremlin shill, better to just tag them and move on… they want to frustrate you and waste your time.
77 GROUPS WORLDWIDE BACK GENOCIDE LAWSUIT AGAINST BIDEN IN U.S. COURT
That’s a lot of Kremlin shills.
Tagged
It is literally our shells and bombs which our client state is using to kill children while we are the lone veto in the UN Security Council vote for a ceasefire. Obama and Reagan–yes, Ronald Reagan–withheld weapon shipments to Israel over far less. All Biden has to do is follow his own policy which prohibits providing arms that will likely be used to violate human rights. Instead, he has refused to even place conditions on the weapons he gives to Israel, conditions he has been happy to place on arms transfers to Ukraine.
Biden is not merely complicit. He’s a willful participant. He’s a war criminal.
I disagree with all of this, and find it to be an emotionally stunted and shallow take on a very complex issue.
How many genocidal deaths per month (under a dem administration) would it take for you to withhold your vote for a dem? 1 thousand, 1 million, 10 million? I suspect there is no amount.
Let me rephrase this better:
How many genocidal deaths (in a totally different country than your own) per month would it take for you to destroy your government and see it overtaken by an Alt-Right Dictatorship? 1 thousand, 1 million, 10 million? I suspect there is no amount.
It’d be on thing if “a dem administration” was the one causing the genocide. They aren’t. But I agree that they could be doing more to stop it. It won’t get better under Trump, so this game of “Morality chicken” your playing with our entire future here is fucking dumb.
They’re more concerned about their “livelihood” than doing the right thing.
The daily death toll on Israel has been plummetting by 20% per month since the beginning of the conflict.
Nope. Not as long as we can continue our comfortable lives over here. Not as long as it’s people who don’t look like us–who don’t speak our language–doing the dying. Not as long as we can block “Gaza” from our feed when it starts to become a real downer.
When one of the most powerful nations in the world becomes a dictatorship, how do you think that’ll affect the world? What do you think happens to the last 200 years of progress? What do you think will continue to happen in Gaza?
It isn’t like this is an isolated decision. Not voting has a very real and fucking dangerous consequence, and you need to realize that sometimes there aren’t good decisions and you have to make the best of it. Sitting out and pouting doesn’t do shit but make things worse for everyone else. So stop acting like a petulant child. No one in this entire fucking thread is even remotely supportive of genocide, but you’ll be damned if I’m going to see my country become a dictatorship because of events in other countries because one side “isn’t doing enough”.
What do you think happens when the people of the most powerful democracy in the world look the other way when their elected officials commit genocide?