- cross-posted to:
- worldnewsnonus@lemy.lol
- scotland
- cross-posted to:
- worldnewsnonus@lemy.lol
- scotland
JK Rowling has challenged Scotland’s new hate crime law in a series of social media posts - inviting police to arrest her if they believe she has committed an offence.
The Harry Potter author, who lives in Edinburgh, described several transgender women as men, including convicted prisoners, trans activists and other public figures.
She said “freedom of speech and belief” was at an end if accurate description of biological sex was outlawed.
Earlier, Scotland’s first minister Humza Yousaf said the new law would deal with a “rising tide of hatred”.
The Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Act 2021 creates a new crime of “stirring up hatred” relating to age, disability, religion, sexual orientation, transgender identity or being intersex.
…
Ms Rowling, who has long been a critic of some trans activism, posted on X on the day the new legislation came into force.
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I am so fucking sick of these bigots pretending the science of “biological sex” is on their side.
In recent years, multiple studies of the brains of trans people have revealed areas of differentiation from those of cisgender people. And unless these bigots are prepared to argue that brains are not part of biology, they only have two choices: Deny the science somehow or accept that they’re just bigots who want to hate, regardless of the science.
And because unlike bigots, I like to back my shit up:
- https://www.nature.com/articles/s41386-020-0666-3
- https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2804855
- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8955456/
On top of that, there’s some indications of oligogenic causes resulting in various allele differences that wouldn’t necessarily show up on a brain scan.
In conclusion: Fuck bigots and their attempts to co-opt science in order to support their bigotry.
Deny the science
Sure thing Bob, let me just stack that in-between “Evolution” and “climate change” on my shelf of “Things that don’t fit my bigoted, hateful, and selfish worldview, so I just conveniently ignore them.”
They will always find a fallacy to argue you that they are right. It’s a belief. You need to bring them to realize they are wrong.
Hard fact, evidence based fact isn’t the bast practice to change these beliefs.
Biological sex exists, it’s just not binary, and the mental part of this has a massive psycho-social component to it that few take into consideration. Brain research on this is still in the chicken vs egg stage it seems based on those papers.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but why would you link to an article that mentions “biological sex” in the first sentence when trying to prove that there is no such thing as “biological sex”? I’m almost certainly missing something, so please excuse my ignorance.
“It’s basic biology” mfers when they see advanced biology 😣
OR, and hear me out, you could just not be a total asshole? Maybe have a baseline of tolerance and respect for the people who made you a billionaire? No? Then fuck right off and accept the consequences of your hatred.
It seems billionaires have really wacked out midlife crises. Instead of buying expensive cars and cheating on their partners, they come out as terfy nazis, build hate platforms, and crash companies. I mean to be fair, at this point the sample size is only two, JKKK Rowling and Musk, but it’s still surprising that it’d happen twice.
Bill Gates started a charity.
Steve Jobs killed himself because he thought he knew better than his doctors. Well, that’s wacked out too, but at least it’s not being a Nazi…
These guys need to get on John McAfee’s level
John McCracked
McAfee is not worth cracking
That dude’s videos are extraordinary.
John McAfee’s poop hammock is perhaps the best story about him.
For the uninitiated:
Have you seen the (censored) GoPro footage he released?
Oh you son of a…
At last this guy was entertaining, not only disgusting like these modern “billionaires”. Pff.
Bill gates didn’t start the charity as a midlife crisis.
It’s a tax dodge and a lot of other ways of protecting his money while also doing a little reputation washing/ morality banking
Wasn’t he 45 when he started the charity? That sounds like a perfect candidate to be a midlife crisis, haha
Just because it was midlife doesn’t mean it’s a crisis.
He started the charity as a shelter for his obscene wealth. That is all.
I’m not obscenely wealthy, so I don’t have the experience…but it seems plausible that a billionaire midlife crisis could be “Where am I going to put this ridiculous amount of money that I’ve earned through less-than-ethical means?”
It’s plausible that a man who made his billions fucking everyone over who was even remotely near him….
… developed a conscience?
https://apnews.com/article/business-philanthropy-b8acb10f529ac2dbaff7631021d823c9
It’s a tax dodge
Have you ever worked with the Gates foundation? Because calling it a “tax dodge” like that is completely baseless, they’re a really reallyngood charity, like honestly one of the best in the world, and also that’s very ignorant of how taxes work.
and also that’s very ignorant of how taxes work.
You could just google it and alleviate your own ignorance of all the scummy ways both the foundation and the trust are used to avoid taxes (and other expenses.) here’s a forbe’s article with the stuff they’re actually allowed to talk about. The “good work” you’re so keen to point out… is part of the grift.
Specifically so schmucks like you pounce whenever some schmuck like me says “they’re not that nice.” That’s the part about “reputation washing”. he gives some money - literal pocket change for somebody that makes nearly 11 million per day.
you don’t get that fucking rich by being “nice” or “decent” or even human, really. this is about Bezos, but it puts their wealth into perspective. Decent humans, with that kind of wealth could solve global housing. Or they could solve the food shortage. he hasn’t even come close to that. No. The foundation isn’t a force for good, even if it occasionally does good shit.
for example, the Rich Douche exploited the pandemic to make money, by investing in vaccine companies. And refusing to release the IP on the Vaccine. Because that would hurt
histhe foundation’s profits.My dude, I have worked with the foundation to help create diagnostic tools for deseases that would otherwise gone unnoticed in developing countries.
The work we have done has saved thousands and thousands of peoples lives. So you can take your.
The “good work” you’re so keen to point out… is part of the grift.
And shove it right up your arse. If saving peoples lives is a “grift” to you because bill Gates didn’t sell his shares in Microsost before he gave them to his trust, because obviously the shares will keep increasing in price, then honestly I don’t fucking care.
And yes I know Bill Gates did shitty things and screwed a lot of people over in his early carrier to become so rich and I’m not excusing that. But the Gates foundation isn’t part of that and has done way too much good for humanity as a whole for some ignorant chucklefuck with no first hand experience of what they do to dismiss it as a “grift”.
here’s a forbe’s article
Here’s what your Forbes article says:
A strong case can be made that the ability of the Bill and Melinda Gates to keep their money and use it for charitable purposes was the biggest and best tax break in American history.
The “good work” you’re so keen to point out… is part of the grift.
My dude, are you hearing yourself?
They do good work and help people? That’s great! They do the best work out of all charities worldwide? That’s even better!
Still a tax dodge. You really want to help the world, donate. The money being out of their control is kind of the point…
How is the money being out of their control the point?
The point is to save lives and help people, which the Gates foundation does incredibly well.
And it’s not a tax dodge, he’s literally just not selling his Microsoft shares for cash, getting taxed, and then giving the money to the foundation and instead just giving the foundation the shares directly.
It’s a tax dodge
You don’t understand how taxes work.
All that may be true, but it does a lot of good too.
Steve Jobs killed himself because he thought he knew better than his doctors. Well, that’s wacked out too, but at least it’s not being a Nazi…
Steve Jobs was always a piece of shit, and he had that diet well before he got cancer. But yeah the fact he continued to double down in the face of death shows how much of a narcissist he was.
I think a factor with some of them, probably both the ones you mentioned, is that they can’t handle criticism. So when they get any push back they double down. Then they get drawn into conservative nonsense that reinforces their beliefs. Then it’s a downward spiral as they get radicalized far beyond their original positions.
To be fair, you just described my mother to a tee. She’s a narcissist and has managed to alienate everyone from her life.
You can add Markus Persson to that sample group
Oh yeah!
So you would like it to be enshrined in law that it is acceptable for whoever holds power to arrest people whom they believe to be assholes?
No, not even a little bit. There is a difference between being an asshole and committing a hate crime. Hate crime laws, when properly crafted and enforced, are an important component of a functional society. They can act as a deterrent, but they are also a way for those materially harmed by a hate crime to get justice. Free speech is never a universal right, anywhere in the world. There are always legitimate restrictions to ensure the public’s overall health and safety.
What is the difference?
No, not even a little bit. There is a difference between being an asshole and committing a hate crime.
I’m not sure there is a difference with this law.
Hate crime laws, when properly crafted and enforced, are an important component of a functional society.
I’m not sure that’s true. Freedom of speech is an important component, and sometimes that means tolerating distasteful speech.
They can act as a deterrent, but they are also a way for those materially harmed by a hate crime to get justice.
What constitutes harm though? The UK tends to include offense (or offence) as a harm.
Free speech is never a universal right, anywhere in the world. There are always legitimate restrictions to ensure the public’s overall health and safety.
Absolutely, but being offended by a bigot probably shouldn’t be criminal without some component of advocacy for violence.
A person commits an offence if they communicate material, or behave in a manner, “that a reasonable person would consider to be threatening or abusive,” with the intention of stirring up hatred based on protected characteristics.
We don’t have to tolerate the intolerant, they refuse to abide by the mutual contract of tolerance so they don’t deserve the protections of a tolerant society.
JKR isn’t just doing a little bit of free speech she is a billionaire advocating for hate on a massive platform and donating to hate groups, she has influence and power. She is absolutely advocating for the restriction on trans peoples rights, that is violence. Especially in a time when anti trans hate is on the rise we should be even more skeptical of claims of free speech, right now across the world hate crimes against trans people are going up and our rights are being stripped away.
Arguments about free speech are just a way to ignore the issue and do nothing as transphobia continues to thrive and spread. Stop defending hate.
Until the intolerance of the intolerant is applied to not tolerate you… You see hate crime laws being used to defend religions from criticism for example.
Oh my what ever might that be like, having to deal with intolerance. I never have to deal with that nope. Nope it’s definitely not a daily occurrence for pretty much all trans people.
But the transphobes get to advocate for my erasure and that’s just free speech… yep makes sense… totally fair and balanced
What? I think you missed what I was saying. For example they could argue criticism of their religion is itself intolerant and should therefore be illegal.
Arguments about free speech are just a way to ignore the issue and do nothing as transphobia continues to thrive and spread.
No, arguments about free speech recognize that there is no more important right that a free society can have. If a group can dictate that the language that they find distasteful is criminal, then so can any other group.
Without protections for free speech, what happens when an authoritarian like Trump determines that support for trans people is actually misogyny, or that support for POC is racist against white people and then criminalizes that speech? These are arguments they already make.
You’re talking about prior restraint which, at least in the US, has always been harshly scrutinized. As it should be. A line needs to be drawn, but promoting violence should be that line, not merely that which is distasteful.
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Ok keep defending hate speech, I think your a bigot and are a bad person.
And I think you’re naive, and terrible at grammar (it’s “you’re” not “your”). Am I pro-murder too because I don’t like the death penalty either? I know that you have a tiny inept brain, but try to imagine that I could dislike something and not want to criminalize it.
Oh look, they’re already following the obvious playbook. If you make speech criminal it’s not going to be used against the people you want it used against.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/01/trump-stephen-miller-anti-white-racism-plan
You know it doesn’t work that way but spout nonsense anyway.
That’s already the law. Look at Florida.
Are you seriously arguing against hate crime laws??
It’s becoming harder and harder to be a Harry Potter fan nowaday.
I don’t really understand what it is about X Formerly Known as Twitter that turns previously respectable people into, well, this.
Everybody should take a break from social media once in a while, it’s better for your health.
It doesn’t turn these people, they were shitty all the time, they just get a platform on X so it becomes visible
Part of it is that having a large captive audience hanging on to your every word really starts to amplify toxic characteristics in those with the predisposition for shittiness. Like Musk or Trump, their descend only came when they became active on social media.
Twitter is a horrible thing.
Trump thought the day the Twin Towers fell was a good time to mention his property was closer to the tallest building in New York. That very evening, on the news, in 2001. Here’s a link.
Honestly he did so many “Career Suicides” for Politicians that it broke the system, I get that’s why he won, but… still how the shit did he not get sunk by his 9/11 response, I mean, yeah he said stupid shit ages ago… but the dude straight up got 9/11 and 7/11 mixed up.
The fuck did we go from “A weird yell will disqualify you!” to this!?!?
Because the journalists didn’t do their job. They should have been blasting the “tallest building” and his weird infatuation with his daughter, but he was profitable, so they let it slide.
I really dont think Rowling started off this shitty. From what I’ve heard it sounds like she has baggage regarding men she hasnt dealt with and its led her down this incredibly shitty path
The books have some really problematic themes that add up over time. If HP ended with the first book, they would be a curiosity, but they add up and JK had a really crooked world view when she wrote them. It’s likely her editor soften them in the beginning, but they had less control as they got more popular.
Not to challenge, just don’t remember the later books, what are some good examples of that?
I stopped reading about halfway though and that was when they were being released. I’d say my mounting issues at the time was the weird pettiness of the good characters, the cheapness of Harry(why didn’t he pay for the car he helped wreak? Why didn’t he pay rent to the Weasley family?), and books ending with cheap drama(how many times did Harry loose a positive father figure?). If you want a larger breakdown, here’s a good one that goes into a lot of detail.
They were always awful. They just needed a platform where they could blossom into the terrible people they always were.
Yeah Rowling has been a notorious TERF for many years now.
Oh yeah it was definitely Twitter that made her a bigot. She was an upstanding and progressive citizen before a website made her bad! /s
That’s like saying “I don’t really understand what it is about alcohol that makes people racist”
If I remember correctly, it all started when she retweeted something that was a bit ignorant and was called out for it on Twitter, but then she kept doubling down until it got to this point, when she could have just stopped talking about it.
It’s not that Twitter suddenly turned her into a bad person, but it definitely brought out the worst in her.
No it just revealed her beliefs to a wider audience. Twitter like all social media doesn’t bring out anything - it’s just a lens that gives the viewer a perspective they might never have seen and these view are then amplified by others who share them. Rowling was always this person, social media just allowed her to share and amplify her views.
I disagree. Social media and the “contrarian” attitude they carry, especially Twitter, can help consolidating and radicalizing your opinions. You get exposed to a very toxic way to carry out conversation (especially on Twitter, where you have constant dogpiling and wannabe famous people who try to “blast” others) so that if they are the only places you discuss about certain subjects, can bring you to shift your views as well.
I am not saying this is the case for J.K. Rowling (I don’t know), but I don’t think we can immediately discard the idea that the dynamics of the medium also affected the result.
I see your point but there are about a hundred or so thoughts I have a day that I am way way cowardly to record. The position she is in with a large fanbase, lots of money, and interacting with pixels probably contributed to her lack of filter.
So right she might have been intrinsically not a very good person prior but all this stuff hasn’t helped her keep a lid on it.
sorry to join the little dogpile, but its not X, those are her beliefs.
There are a LOT better books out there then childrens books about wizard school, which she absolutely lifted from Jill Murphy.
Jill Murphy
The worst witch right?
I see the movie has Tim curry in it. I’m sold. Appreciate the recommendation
Dude… my friend’s and I get together (video conference) to watch the film every year in late October. It also features Charolette Rae (the matriarch on Facts of Life) Dianna Rigg (Queen of Thorns on Game of Thrones) and Fariuza Balk (The Craft, Waterboy etc.)
The Worst Witch was a series of books though that Rowling absolutely read before “coming up with” a boarding school for magic using students, but get this: In Rowling’s imagination its BOYS instead of girls who are the main focus, and the protoganist is the messiah instead of a girl screw-up with a heart of gold. Its not in the film but there are houses with colorful characteristics, the protoganist is from a non-magical family and the scary, raven haired potion teacher seems to hate the protoganist while the kind, grey haired headmaster is patient and understanding. She has two friends in the invisible (to non magic users) castlesque boardings school thats surrounded by a forbidden forest where she hangs out with two friends, one who’s straight laced and academically sharp and the other who’s a bit goofy.
Anyway Tim Curry does a musical number
I think the mistake we make is thinking that people are better than they are. I probably have some hidden bigotry that I am unaware of right now but given a space to be exposed to it someone would notice and point it out. If you only know of someone from one thing they did you can form an opinion of them based on very limited information. Get to know them better and you find that hidden awful. Twitter is a tool of constant broad interaction and it preserves bad takes long enough to see them. Add a culture of never admiting to being wrong and filtering by who you agree with and you have a cycle of awful that turns perfectly boringly not great but OK people into monsters defending genocide. Maybe we shouldn’t know anything about the author, replace their name with a serial number or pseudonym and let the art stand on it’s own. Though the racist jewish, wait no goblin, bankers was fairly intense tbh.
if you ever have a couple hours to spare, i think shaun made a really great video on this topic: https://youtube.com/watch?v=-1iaJWSwUZs
he talks about JK rowling and harry potter, and how many of JK rowlings beliefs/worldviews are embedded into harry potter. he’s very thorough.
Have you read the books as an adult? If that wont kill your fandom, I don’t think anything will.
I mean tbf, the books were written for children. If you don’t like them, then maybe it’s because they’re not for you anymore. Or are you referring to something else?
As a kid in the target age range, I bailed after the second or third time Harry gained and lost a positive father figure. There were mounting little issues and the longer the books got, the less rewarding the payoff got. But even I assumed that setting up normalized slavery in your world would lead into a story line that denounces it. Instead, JK didn’t address it in a positive manner and we ended up with HP Adults writing essays defending House Elf Slavery.
Fair enough. Probably also doesn’t help that the civil rights organization that Hermione founded, or rather attempted to found, was called SPEW. As in, synonym for “vomit”
My first time reading them, at the age of like, 10? 11? I was so excited for Order of the Phoenix because it was coming out soon and I’d loved the first one that I got as a birthday gift. I slammed through 2 and 3, then 4 just kept going and felt so bad that by the end I wasn’t excited for Order anymore and didn’t finish the series until Order was releasing as a film. They weren’t even that good as a kid if you read anything else
They weren’t even that good as a kid if you read anything else
Here’s an excellent analysis of how and why the Harry Potter hype of the late 90s was very intentionally manufactured and sold to kids.
While I am not defending Twitter by any means. I feel like what actually breaks people’s brains is becoming a billionaire. You lose all empathy for other humans.
The cause and effect may be reversed there.
I mean, it is for most billionaires. But Rowling isn’t a businesswoman who got parents money to invest in a company to rob the proletariat.
She just wrote a book that happened to be a gigaseller.
But either way, billionaires have broken brains.
I possess the books and movies, and never interact with the fandom or the author. There is zero need to. Let the art exist in isolation.
NEXT POINT: the stories have their own issues regarding certain portrayals but that is aside from the context of “new developments” a la the author’s modern opinions on things outside the plot of the books.
Yeah, like, I don’t know what Frank Herbert or J.R.R.Tolkein’s stances on trans rights would have been either, and it doesn’t impact me reading their work at all.
On the other hand, I do not want to give this person any money, so there’s that. I won’t be spending money on her stuff.
There are nautical ways
Frank Herbert I imagine wouldn’t have been a fan. Dune really sets up a battle between natural+religion vs. atheism+technology.
I miss when my biggest problem with JK Rowling was her desire to keep writing new material for Harry Potter, but instead of ya know… making spinoff books, maybe do a TV Show, maybe get in touch with Archie at some point for an expanded universe comic: I mean God knows they need the money after Sonic went out for a pack of cigarettes and never came back… oh right Warner Bros. owns the franchise… so I guess DC could have done the Expanded Universe comic?
No instead of doing any of that she just randomly dripped out plotpoints from the internet, and always stuff that made no fucking sense… like
“Dumbledore was gay the whole time, despite the fact that I NEVER HINTED AT THIS! Also Wizards don’t have toilets! They shit themselves and magic away the poop! By the way, Hermonie was always black despite the fact I always described her as being pale skinned!”
The “Dumbledore was gay” was especially infuriating because she wrote the “Fantastic Breasts” movies, and instead of expanding upon the Dumbledore’s gay thing at all, they just use the “They’re just really good friends!” cover, ya know, the one that’s an amazing progressive way to imply that without running afoul of the “Moral Majority”… in 1992…
But the medal ultimately goes to “Hermonie is black!”, because the only reason she came up with it was to try to better canonize the “Cursed Child” play… which wound up having a black actress play Hermonie.
Instead of doing the adult thing and admitting that most writers accepted by the mainstream are white, and therefore an overwhelming majority of characters in fiction are white, and that’s… kind of not good as it shows the bias we’ve given in favor of one specific group over all others, and that maybe in the future we’ll have more racially diverse character casts… but until then, because we have more white characters than white actors, sometimes white characters are going to be played by non-white actors, and even if that’s not how we typically envision the character… Get over it.
No instead of doing that, she just felt the need to make another fucking retcon and claimed she intended to have Hermonie be black the whole fucking time! I hope they fired the moron who cast Emma Watson for the role in the movie then… that talentless hack who knew nothing of the books… checks notes Joanne Kathleen Rowling
I’m sorry but it takes a special kind of narcissim to attempt to retcon, not just a fictional work, but reality itself!
That’s squarely in the realm of “doesn’t matter”.
The works are done, anything said after never happened
She’s been this way long before X became a thing.
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Meh it’s weird you hang your tastes on others
Rowling quote from the article:
Scottish lawmakers seem to have placed higher value on the feelings of men performing their idea of femaleness, however misogynistically or opportunistically, than on the rights and freedoms of actual women and girls.
It’s difficult to accept that someone I used to respect could say such hateful things about people like me. I’m not gonna lie, it hurts to read. What the fuck, Joanne? Is that all I am to you… just a man “performing” my idea of femaleness? Well, fuck you, then. Should I wish for you to feel the same pain you’ve inflicted on others? To be honest, judging by your “performance” in the media the past several years, I don’t think you’re resilient enough to survive it.
It sucks when your heros let you down. There was a guy I really admired and I worked with. When his wife was in the hospital he cheated on her. Couldn’t see him the same way again.
Sorry she sucks so very hard and is not only a disappointment actively hostile.
I am not sure she entirelly referes to you. It refers to people abusing transexuality to achieve other dreams or more dreams than just being themselves. At least this is how I understand her argumentations.
Fuck that shit. She doesn’t make any such distinction in her hate tirades. It’s very easy to find many tweets and similar quotes of her speaking about transsexual people as a whole. So yeah, she very much has spoken about OP as well. And she’s a freaking author, she doesn’t get any excuses for not knowing how to write more specifically. She knows very well what she says and who it will affect when she generalises all transsexual people. And it for damn sure isn’t some imaginary group or predators willing to go through all the hassle of being trans to prey on women but the trans community as a whole.
Yeah it is understandable that you would understand it that way. Unfortunately, that’s not really what her whole stance is. She goes beyond that and tells the people that protections for all trans people (trans women in particular) should be rolled back. Take, for instance, her stance on trans women in prisons. She says all trans women should be put in mens’ prisons. However, many trans women who are put in mens’ prisons are often sexually abused (source will come if I remember)
All in all, she is a raging transphobe and is buddies with even homophobic figures. I personally find this list of her transphobia quite damning.
Absolutely nobody is doing that. Grow the fuck up, it’s so obviously a completely invented problem they use to demonize people trying to be themselves.
And if any person ends up being a sexual criminal, then they will be dealt with according to the law.
ahh yes trans people, a historically privileged class that millions of people are pretending to be to get :checks notes: hormone treatment
So wait, did you wish her the pain or no?
Sounds to me they were admitting to being human and thought about it, but dont really want to give in to a harmful base impulse like that…
Edit: Removed some redundancy
I’m just trying to clarify their final position.
Why? We have no reason to believe the person you are grilling has any capability of harming JK Rowling, so you’re grilling someone who’s hurt that someone they grew up reading turned out to be shitty for no real purpose
Edit: Added “You’re”
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I would like a fine patagonia fleece. I dont like the way oakleys fit my face, but if they are free and i can sell/re-gift them then i will not turn them down.
Unless this is reference to something that i dont understand.
Think about it for a moment, dear. Who dresses that way?
I can honestly say i have no idea.
Outdoors type people? South Americans? Oak trees?
Thats as far as i can get by thinking about it. You are gonna have to spell it out, because a patagonia fleece and some oakleys are not a stereotype i am aware of.
That wouldn’t get anyone banned though.
As evidenced by me saying: ‘I wish harm to JK Rowling’.
Also I legitimately don’t understand your last question.
This is mental illness by now! Seriously wtf? Why is this so important for her that she can’t stop talking about it? If I had some irrational hate for trans woman, I would not go on about it in public all the time.
Don’t we have more important problems then to bash people that are so unhappy with their body that they are willing to take hormones and let people operate on their genitals?
This is such a simple thought, everybody should be able to think it, right? But on the other hand, she is not the only one hating transgender women or men. I mean it is not right to hate people for that. But if I would hate trans people then I would just not invite them for dinner and would stop talking about them all the time.
It must be some form of mental illness I have no other explanation.
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have bigger problems than someone else getting bodily autonomy.
Except her problem doesn’t seem to be with people having bodily autonomy, her problem seems to be with trans women in what should be safe spaces for women.
I’m not saying I agree with her views, but it seems all nuance has been lost from public debate.
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She is so lost in her own transphobia, that she now hangs out and financially support people who are not only transphobic but openly homophobic, conservative, misogynistic and fascist, things i still believe she is against. But she is so blinded by hate that she is willing to ignore all those things to support transphobia
Trans women are women. This is not complicated.
If you are interested in a (in my opinion) nuanced look at it I would like to point you towards the YouTube Channel Contrapoints Video on the matter, in case you haven’t seen it.
her problem seems to be with trans women in what should be safe spaces for women.
She claims that that is her problem, but her solution isn’t “let’s make sure that we harshly prosecute those who abuse the goodwill of other’s trusting in your own self identification to invade and attack women”, is “all trans women are really perverts trying to invade women spaces to attack women”
So, really, her problem seems to be with trans people existing at all…
I have another one.
After enough time has passed since the initial conflict, it becomes less about the subject of the conflict and more about the conflict in itself. The reason becomes secondary and instead the goal becomes winning against the other side or at least making it hurt.
Yes I think you are right. And I think this is borderline a mental illness if you can’t stop lashing out. As I understand it, she somehow thinks by bashing trans women she is doing something good for women. Trans women are somehow taking away her womanhood or something like that. I have read something like this several times from Rowling but I have no clue how trans woman could do that. But Rowling is obsessed with that, for what ever reason.
Following this train of thought, what I gathered from other comments is that she had a bad experience with a man in the past, her targeted social media experience likely concentrated the bad news in that direction and her view is now that the trans movement is just evil men looking to invade women’s personal spaces in order to abuse them.
If you look at her as someone bombarded with Fox News type of content, then perhaps that kind of paranoia and fear is what makes her so vocal in her opposition.
Yeah. And it’s important to understand that the pipeline she followed does a swap. Once she became convinced trans women were the problem she began associating with men who are misogynists and support the harm to cis women that she fears. By the time she’s standing with Matt Walsh and funding groups that also oppose abortion access protecting cis women is no longer her primary concern, it may be what she thinks is her primary concern but if so she believes that trans women are a larger threat than those who oppose the right to choose to stop being pregnant or men who want to relegate cis women back to traditional gender roles.
“Strange bedfellows” comes to mind in this regard.
f I had some irrational hate for trans woman, I would not go on about it in public all the time.
Even when I was a homophobic theist shithead I knew better than to say anything.
Or at least to say something else on occasion!
How does this cunt order soup!? Uses the t word like Morse code?
Repressed self hatred.
The whole projecting thing that people like this do.
Nah its the female equivalent of white knight syndrome. They think they’re saving womanhood from impostors.
Removed by mod
Why not both, M’lud?
Operative word in your post is “irrational.” If she were being rational, she would probably shut up about it. She’s not either, unfortunately.
It’s not a crime to be an insufferable piece of shit. Usually. If they make an exception for her, okay then.
No, but it seems like “stirring up hate” is a crime. And, as a public figure who is publicly hateful, she potentially fits that description
Yep, there really needs to be the distinction between private remarks and public instigation in free speech law.
Otherwise you’re not protecting anything except the right of the loudest to monopolize the airwaves via intimidation of dissent and “the other”
It’s not freedom of speech unless everyone feels safe using it, be it from fear of retaliation by the state, or by the tyranny of cousins.
It’s a delicate balancing act, but there is a sliding scale of speech acts, from the harmless, to bigoted, to hate speech, to incitement of violence.
There’s not universal agreement on where to place the line between protected speech and public instigation, but her public comments have been drifting ever closer to that line, especially with her most recent bout of denying Nazi crimes.
Not chilling protected speech is important, but so is enforcement against those who have crossed the line. Countries with stricter laws are generally those who have learned this the hard way.
denying Nazi crimes.
Jfc, when did she start doing that?
Someone else posted the link, but a few weeks ago she described the idea that Nazis targeted research and healthcare information on Trans patients as “a fever dream”, despite the Nazi raids on Magnus Hirschfield’s Institute are a well-documented part of their crimes.
She claimed she was describing something other than the screenshot she quoted after people repeatedly pointed out how wrong she was, but it’s still a troubling escalation in her rhetoric.
No, but it seems like “stirring up hate” is a crime. And, as a public figure who is publicly hateful, she potentially fits that description
According to the article the law doesn’t apply in a general sense.
It appears its written (along with another law) to only apply to an aggressor’s interaction with a specific person. So the law wouldn’t apply to Rowling’s comments from twitter about the group in general. No specifically named person is targeted.
Also, something I just learned from this about Rowling’s Transphobia that was strange to me. She doesn’t appear to have any problem with FtM, but only problems with MtF. I have never run across someone who has such specific bigotry in this case.
@partial_accumen I would suspect that a lot of transphobes are more hostile to MtF than FtM, if you could get inside their heads.
Note that the nightmare scenario most commonly invoked to promote laws concerning bathrooms is men in women’s bathrooms, rarely the opposite.
Also, modern fashion has given women a lot of freedom to wear men’s-style clothing, but men don’t get the same. People seem to expect men to look like men and some get very set off when they don’t.
I would suspect that a lot of transphobes are more hostile to MtF than FtM
There’s no need to “suspect”, it’s plain as day. Almost the entire fight about Trans is in regards to MtF.
People, and most especially women who identify as feminists, REALLY do not like the idea of Men being Women but most of them don’t care at all about Women who want to be Men.
This whole thing is an attempt to control men.
I have never run across someone who has such specific bigotry in this case.
I’m surprised that you’ve never noticed this before since 99.9% of the entire hullabaloo about Trans revolves around MtF. The only exception I can readily think of is minors, specifically young people seeking have biological breast tissue removed. Everything else, whether it’s sports, bathrooms, or puberty blockers is about MtF.
IRL and in the Social Media spaces, like X / FaceBook / YouTube the ones who believe and act like JK are the overwhelming majority of people.
People, and most especially women who identify as feminists, REALLY do not like the idea of Men being Women but most of them don’t care at all about Women who want to be Men.
Because Conservativism is about maintaining hierarchies. Men are (naturally) higher than women, so it’s only natural for women to aspire to be men. However, it’s against the proper order for a man to want to debase himself and lower himself on the hierarchy to become a woman. Therefore, it’s anathema.
(Oh, and also some either deep-rooted repressed homosexuality, or homophobia from fear of hitting on an attractive woman only to find out she’s a trans woman.)
Nah, she’s said some awful stuff about trans men too, more paternalistic and insulting than actively hostile though. I’m not going to go looking for what she said though because I’d like to continue having a nice day.
It truly makes me think most “martyrs” in history must have been insufferable pieces of shit, as well.
Because it’s only these people who want to make a “martyr” of themselves, endlessly playing the fucking victim while having enough money to make Solomon blush.
Why are some people so determined to be pieces of shit?
You don’t get rich being nice.
Even if you did (like you won the big lottery or something). Being rich turns people into assholes too. Your ego inflates massively.
Theres actually a body of research here, abd its so much fucking worse. Researcher I remember is named piff, look some up; its fucking wild.
She likes the attention. She had it once. But she blew her load and now there’s no more creativity. So she gets it in other ways.
The rich aren’t people, dear.
Because its the only way they know how to relate to others or have any concept of themselves, being wealthy makes you a vicious sadistic piece if shit¹, and picking on the weak gives a slight emotional high, especially if you’ve got an audience.
¹not just humans; all apes suck like this.
What are you going to do about it?
Well…nothing, lol.
And now we know why they think they can get away with it
I’m not from Ireland or the UK, not a consumer for her products, and don’t know her personally. What do you propose I do about her shitty behavior?
I’m neither Scottish, nor Brittish, nor would I buy her shit anyway. Short of taking a trip to the UK just to punch her face, what else is there to do?
Offer free drinks to anyone who does.
Pirate her works?
Why bother with it at all? Its so overrated.
If I had her money, I wouldn’t spend my time bullying people and starting fights with the police. She’s clearly insane in the most fundamental way.
The more I know about rich people, the less inclined I am to think that they’re usually well adjusted.
Hoarding is usually considered a mental illness, unless it’s money. Maybe we should consider that a problem too.
When you have ten billion dollars, you aren’t really trying to make more money because you can really imagine a feasible way of spending it all on your own well-being. What’s even the point then?
That’s exactly my point.
I’ve become convinced that power, including wealth, causes brain damage.
Why not start fights with police/government?
Why would anyone want a high drama life?
A lot of people seem to
But strange enough, her insanity mostly damages others and has no negative impact on her life. How comes?
Money.
Correct
It’s not money, money makes you get out of situations easily, it doesn’t create the situations. And she is creating those situations in ways that don’t require insanity. They only require bad intentions.
Friendly reminder that Scotland’s freedom of speech laws are different from those in the US.
The freedom of one person ends where it starts limiting the freedom of another person
Unlimited freedom of speech just means that it’s possible to verbally deny a group of people a place in society either by lying about them or by just ignoring their existence - and both are limiting that person’s freedom - not just their freedom of speech.
I really don’t understand how Americans don’t seem to understand that one person’s freedom should end when it limits the freedom of another person - and if it doesn’t then it’s just the stronger/more forceful one pushing the weaker/more defensive one into a corner.
I’m in Canada. The number of people who think we have free speech laws similar to our neighbours (and what they think they can get away with) is staggering.
It’s a “freedom to” vs “freedom from” issue. The US is much more on the “freedom to” side. For example, freedom to own firearms overrules freedom from gun violence. In this case, it’s freedom to say nasty shit overrules freedom from hearing nasty shit. This is also why libertarianism is so popular here (they’re all about having the “freedom to,” even when it’s at others’ expense). This isn’t always the case of course (our strict zoning laws and development codes are a great example of “freedom from” overruling “freedom to”).
Trans people exist and deserve, like anyone, to be treated with dignity and respect. Get the fuck over it.
Ugh.
Her opinion on trans folks is shit, but people should not go to jail for shit opinions. Broken clock and stuff.
It’s more complicated than that. Like saying there is a fire in a theatre when there is none, saying transgender are undercover perverts and a danger to society when it’s not supported by evidence will get people killed. Freedom of speech is great and all but when your lie and put people in danger there should be consequences.
And just for the record, this is not a theory. People HAVE been murdered.
Sick people are inspired to violence by all kind of thing, are we going to outlaw Catcher in the Rye?
There is a very incredibly stark contrast between telling a story on a page and actually saying “we should hurt people”
Kind of depends? There are books around that are rather direct in their hurtful message.
Yeah there are, but you’ll never be able to stop people from spreading literature, legal or not, so things like catcher and the rye, mice and men, mockingbird, with all of their controversies are great to have in schools to help our children grow into adults who can identify this stuff for what it actually is and not some deranged gospel.
But then there’s also a ton of other arguments to be made about mental health and all that, when it comes to violent psychos we shouldn’t get in the habit of settling with a scapegoat
Maybe you are misunderstanding me, I’m not arguing for censorship of books but against censorship op speech.
We should because it’s a shit book.
I see, since you are for outlawing books it all falls into places.
omg you’re reaching so hard over this entire comment section. just stop, it’s quite frankly embarrassing
Oh no I’m embarrassing myself in the internet, how will I ever live that one down.
Okay, it’s nth time I see the undercover pervs/rapists about trans folk. The hell happened?
So who is deciding what opinions are puting people in danger. US government for example thinks that whistleblowers Manning and journalist like Assange are puting people in danger.
Have as many opinions as you want, but if you spread shit like “we should exterminate the lesser races” and “trans people are rapists” you earn a vacation at the greybar hotel for abusing your right of free speech to infringe on other people’s rights.
The question is where the line is drawn and how to make sure the state is not abusing those powers to suppress opinions that it sees dangerous. A good example are cases when protecting the children is used as argument for more surveillance. This seems foelr me to go along the same lines.
Sometimes the question of “Where do we draw the line” is an important, valid question that must be considered. Sometimes, the answer to that question can also be “I don’t know precisely, but this is damn well over it.”
I’m not saying that hack writer is necessarily to that stage, but we absolutely should not allow “But where do you draw the line” to turn into “Everything is permitted because what about splitting hairs.”
Than I will rephrase the question. Who should draw the line and do you trust people in power to draw it in a fair way? What if conservatives are holding that power against opinions they think are dangerous?
I’m not totally familiar with how the Scottish legal system works, but wouldn’t the line be drawn by a jury of peers, and not necessarily the people in power?
Good question. But than again - not sure you want to be judged on sensitive topic by a group of peers, I’m not a huge fan of that concept to be honest.
he question is where the line is drawn
[Calling for the extermination of people based on race/ethnicity/religion/gender/disability]
[Discrimination based on race/ethnicity/religion/gender/disability]
|||||||||| THE LINE ||||||||||
.
.
[Literally 1984]
Most sane countries don’t have a lot trouble with this.
Calling for extermination, I would agree on. Since it’s more than an opinion it’s a call to action.
Most sane countries don’t have a lot trouble with this.
I’m really curious for examples.
She grossly misinterprets what the law is meant to achieve. It’s not for somebody who dead names a trans person or calls a trans woman he or him. It’s when someone Tweets out “Who will rid me of this troublesome trans person?” and then their one or more of their followers goes out and beats or murders that person.
People shouldn’t go to jail for shit opinions, I agree. That changes when their opinions become more than opinions.
That’s cryptic.
Trans people have literally been murdered as a direct, traceable result of her “free speech”. Several more people have been victims of harassment campaigns. She has actively engaged in Holocaust denial.
It’s only cryptic because it’s something that requires nuance, and to be addressed on a case by case basis. It’s safe to say that we have crossed the line and then some
Is there a crime for nebulous comments?
lol well at least I thought it was a good joke
Lots of people just don’t know what freedom is speech actually means. Speech isn’t a crime, but crimes can be committed by speaking.
If you kill someone with a hammer, you aren’t charged with possession of hammer - you’re charged with murder. If you hire a hitman to do the killing instead, you aren’t charged with “using speech.”
When that theoretical person is arrested for “shouting fire in a crowded theatre” they aren’t actually being arrested for their speech or their words, but for a separate crime that uses speech as a mechanism.
Speech is a marvelous thing that should be protected, but freedom of speech is not freedom from the consequences of using speech to commit other crimes.
Hateful ideas can be dangerous things. This is why insulting people in Germany can turn into a criminal offense. They know where that goes if left unchecked.
Also, remember, not every country is the USA where breaking the law = going to jail. It can just be a fine the first few times and jail only when you show no intent on ceasing what you’re doing.
JKR is being hyperbolic with this “arrest me” thing. She’s playing the victim for her TERF followers.
I’m from Germany, the only way insulting someone is going to be a criminal case is if you insult police. Otherwise it gets almost always dropped.
So you want the government to decide which ideas are ok and which should be banned? How could this ever go wrong.
I’m pretty sure denying the holocaust can also get you jail time in Germany.
The government deciding what ideas should be banned is pretty typical in Germany lol
What could ever go wrong? Germany, there was something…
Ok, so which is it? I’m arguing it’s fine to ban ideas if they’re bad enough, like holocaust denial in Germany.
And I’m arguing that it’s a bad idea. Germany is a good example, banning holocaust denial did not stop AFD from raising and getting political power. We were not even able to forbid the damn NDP.
That’s not a great argument, there is no evidence those things are somehow connected or not. For all you know it would have been straight back to fascism 60 years earlier if it wasn’t banned. The reason AfD has power is that the courts and government support them and let them get away with crime. If the law was actually applied it would have banned that party.
You can weaponize an opinion, that is what is getting punished.
Where you draw the line? And who is drawing it? Will you be equally happy when conservatives will use the same tools against opinions they see as dangerous?
I think the line is being drawn at “don’t sympathize with
terrorist groupsan opressive theocratic government” (publicly stating “at least the taliban know what a woman is”) and “don’t directly fund hate groups”.(Edited, see comment below)
The line was drawn by Western governments that all agreed gender identity is a protected group of people. Stop trying to pick apart policies that protect people at the cost of bigots’ freeze peach. Free speech is the ability to criticize your government without going to jail for it. It is not meant to protect your right to trash minorities.
Who draws it? The government?!
Slippery slope fallacy “You’re okay with the government saying certain ingredients can’t go in food? Where does that stop? Will you be equally happy when a government you disagree with uses the same tools to dictate everything that goes in your food?”
“You’re okay with the government saying certain areas are off limits to the general public? Where do you draw the line? Will you be equally happy when a different government uses the same tools to forbid you from leaving your home?”
Is this specific step reasonable? Then it’s okay. When they try to take an unreasonable step then it is appropriate to do something about it.
What does the broken clock analogy have to do with Joanne being a bigot?
That’s starting to be an unusual stance
What she’s saying here probably doesn’t rise to the level of criminality under their law. She’s just doing performative nonsense while proving yet again that she doesn’t understand the difference between sex and gender.
People who use biology as an excuse to hate on people have no grasp on how biology even works. You should know that gender disphoria, gender transitions and other genders as well come in fact with small noticeable differences, such as the way the brain is wired and even the many mechanisms inside your body. Unfortunately, such differences are not noticeable right off the bat. But they exist. Also FFS, she could have just enjoyed her harry potter money, maybe she could go silent after the first tweet but come on! There’se no reason to go any further, no reason. She now dwells with the likes of her conservative friends - She’s no victim. There’s more money there than many of us could see in a lifetime. She actually has too much -
Absolutely agree with you!
People who use biology as an excuse to hate on people have no grasp on how biology even works.
“There’s only two sexes, that’s biology 101”, yes, it’s literally 101, it’s what you get taught before you learn the specifics, the exceptions to the rules and the finer details of the multi-dimensional spectrum that is the impact of our biology on sex and gender.
It’s like “there’s only 3 states of matter, that’s basic science!”
Wait until you learn about this extreme thing called sublimation, it’s going to blow your mind…
Oh it’s not directly one of the three states? Plasma isn’t real? I better learn my basics again.
Whooosh
This is a case of tone not coming across text well 😅
I’m agreeing with you
Can we just hold one big public figure accountable to the law? Please?
I live in Canada where we have hate crime laws, they don’t affect 99% of us in any way, because 99% of us aren’t walking around calling for the death of groups of people, based on race, gender, etc. Hate crime laws only affect the people who are truly beyond hateful. Nobody is gonna arrest you for being an anti trans asshole, but that will if you start inciting violence or calling for blood
I learned this one the hard way while being the victim of hate. but it wasn’t until my harasser slipped and threatened physical harm that the police finally did something.
She won’t get arrested and she knows it.
Yeah, I’ve seen people criticize Germany’s freedom of speech laws because we are not allowed to show the Hitler salute or wave the Nazi flag. Like why would I care?
Ms Rowling, who has long been a critic of some trans activism
That’s a particularly odd way for the BBC to characterize her behavior.
Because the BBC is also a “critic of some trans activism”. They actually have a Mastodon instance that immediately got defederated by a few other instances due to their transphobia.
The British media in general seem to be fillled with TERFs, like the UK Guardian (the Australian paper doesn’t seem to have the issue that I’ve noticed).
