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Cake day: June 9th, 2023

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  • That is what we do with all sewerage. It is basically the point of a sewage treatment plant. The very places that due to the water companies refusing to invest in them. But instead paying out huge dividends to share holders. Are now overloading and chucking shit into our rivers.

    Yes we should build more of them. Yes we should be arempting new technologies.

    But if the water co,panies after 40 plus tears have not invested in doing so.

    We also should be taking them back into public hands before spending more money on them. Cos hell they are not capable of managing the money themselves.






  • Not OP.

    But the UK press has had this power since at least the early 1800s. When they were directly responsible for delaying the UK abolition of slavery. By outright lying to the UK population about the life of slaves.

    Access to the internet has definitely reduced the influence in the last 20 years. But the same spending is effecting social media.

    The daily mail has the worst reputation. Given, it was set up intentionally by a wealthy Mongol in the 1930s to influence commoner ideals. (commoner being the political term at the time, House of Lords vs commons). But the UK freedom of the press ideal truly distorts how wealth can be used to influence UK press.




  • If people don’t want to be with God, God respects their choice.

    You may genuinely believe that. But it is in no way what your religion teaches. The whole history of your religions desire to spread. Is based on saving non Christian souls from suffering.

    And even a cursory look at the history of Christianity. Shows a great deal of earthly suffering caused by that unprofitable and frankly rather daft idea.

    I’ll give you a break. Few religions do not have this inbuilt punish,ent for unbelievers. Its sorta the point of religion to grow and form a powerful force. Yeah you may find that idea insulting. But it is simply the truth of history. Religions are lead by humans who have human goals.

    The only religion that is actually openly opposed to it is Wiccan. And honestly that is a religion created in the 1940 by people looking at the mess other created. So hardly less about human goals. Just nicer humans.



  • Your first sentence is a common issue xtians face. You are making an argument to an atheist using your stories as evidence. To my it’s like saying faster than light travel exists because captain Picard did it.

    It in no way suggests to anyone but xtians that you are accountable for your sins. And worse, suggests you think someone else was punished rather than you. And when you add the whole concept of original sin. Very much indicates sin is not actually something you consider to be purely related to your own personal action. So sorta impossible to convince non xtians that your understanding of accountability is well-formed.

    As for your last sentence. It is rather odd you can honestly sprout crap like that after your first comment was having a go at me for calling god authoritarian.

    You believe he makes people suffer for eternity for failing to love him. We consider human insane and criminal for that behaviour.


  • Agreed. As far as best option to stop it.

    But here is where we differ. The possibility that Ukraine “may” do bad things. With absolutely no evidence of them wanting to do so. Is not reason to allow Russia to continue to do bad things. By preventing Ukraine from damaging the inferstructure they are using to do so.

    The whole idea that one nation should b able to attack another on its borders. While 3rd party nations refuse to let that nation fight back. Basically means civilians in Ukraine are being sacrificed to save Russian ones. No war is free of civilian deaths. And stopping all wars would be preferable.

    But even as little more than a layman. 2 things are obvious.

    1 Ukraine currently must dedicate staff and resources to defending civilians and military assets from a huge nation that decided to invade them.

    2 Russia faces very little risk to its own civilians or military assets. So is able to dedicate nearly all of them to attacking Ukraine.


  • The original discussion wasn’t about accountabilit

    As a xtian raised with the idea of Satan. I spose it is understandable why you may feel others think that way. But you are incorrect. To an atheist and in fact all non-Abrahamic religions

    Yes it was. To non xtians (etc) The whole story of Satan is about accountability. To such an obvious extent, it seems odd to have to explain it to you.

    The whole xtian idea of Satan informing mankind of the knowledge of good and evil is a story about mankind not being accountable for sin. But instead, failing to resist the temptation of a 3rd party, the devil. To anyone not raised on your ideal of satan. It is an attempt to reject the Idea you have evil thoughts and ideas. But instead the suggestion you just lack the faith to resist evil injected into your mind by a 3rd party. So yes, I raised accountability. This is why the whole idea of rebelling against God being a bad thing. Seems to be more refusal of accountability.

    I know it is hard. But for one minute, remember you are actually an atheist. You will consider this a stupid argument. But that is the bias of religion. But you consider faith in Oden, Thor, Zeus, Poseidon and the list can go on for 1000s. All to be stupid. I just add one more.

    Try to see the story of Satan as for example the story of Oden hanging from the tree giving knowledge of runic writing to mankind. And it becomes clear why I see your story as describing an authoritarian god. How else do you describe a god who refuses to let his children gain knowledge. Basically a refusal to let children grow.

    Yes, to the rest of us it is about accountability. To us its not is evil acceptable or not. Of course, it is not. But then, nor is refusing to accept the ideas are your own. And as such, if you have them. You have to be responsible for not acting on them.

    As for being bigoted. The amount of times I have had American xtians when I lived there. Question why I don’t do evil things because I am an atheist. A concept I have never heard from a European xtian in my whole life.

    Yeah the whole idea these people only refuse to harm folks because they think god will punish them. Is fucking scary.

    I don’t harm others because they are people with feelings. The whole idea that some people cannot comprehend that without the thought of a heaven or hell. These people are not good.



  • Stop inventing fucking insane ideas in my name. It’s a fucking childish way to make an invalid and childish point.

    I do not believe in mythical fairy tail beings. Evil is an action of free thought and people. Not some stupid influence that allows you to feel better for your own shitty actions.

    If you do shitty things like eugenics, genocide, murder or rape. The subjects you raise to try and create an emotional link. You are a shitty, evil arsehole. Not some imaginary 3rd party you invent to give yourself an excuse.

    Its this insulting and self excusing bullshit that makes so many athists consider Christianity and Christians fucking evil.


  • Again, once again, you want to have free will but also don’t want evil to exist. Free will without the ability to rebel against God isn’t free will.

    Not believing in god or Satan in no way means I don’t believe in evil. That is a rather nieve Christian idea. And a very fucked up idea of what free will is.

    You seem to believe in some odd version of free will, where you have freedom of action. But get to blame someone/something else for your actions. When you do something evil. You did it, you were not tempted or deceived into it by some 3rd party fairy tail.

    The statement you make here is fucking terrifying to atheists. Because you seem to think free will has no actual responsibility for your own actions. But instead blame Satan.

    And a library of collected stories is not a book. The forming of 66 books into the bible was the actual action of St Jerome.


  • The Old Testament was a collection of stories, not an actual book. Hence, the word bible. And not compiled as we know it until 400ad by St. Jerome. This was when the 66 books were agreed on and formed into a single accepted source. Also, when a huge number of stories were excluded as they were opposed to the political ideas of the church leaders at the time.

    And given we are talking about the fall of Satan. It is pretty obvious that I am refusing to mythical events and stories passed down long before the bibble was a concept.

    Assuming fundamental xtian belief, just over 6k years. (ignoring clear evidence that Homo sapiens existed nearly 300k years ago and Homo erectus ancestors about 2m years ago. Sorta throws the whole biblical story of Eden as nothing more then fairy tales.

    But those tails def only paint the story of Satan as encouraging mankind to learn

    And god as an authoritarian that did not want his children/humanity t) to learn to question him. Yeah, at no point is Satan actually accused of creating or being evil. Just giving humans the ability to actually question and learn independent of god.

    IE, to question someone who at the very least is very narcissistic. And in the most logical interpretation. Trying to force sentient beings into a slavery of ignorance. .




  • It’s not the same argument at all.

    Mainly because we are talking about old white men in 400 ad gathering fables from local tribes. IE a library of stories and fiction.

    Nothing in those fables talks about any action committed by Satan matching such crimes.

    People claiming the cause of the civil war are ignoring events. Actual slavery rape murder and abuse, (although not crimes at the time in the states involved). Not to mention the north actually allowing and working to protect the south’s right to keep slaves. Such event just did not exist in the fables.

    The only time the devil is actually accused of anything is after he is giving knowledge to mankind. At no point is he ever said to have murdered or raped anyone.