Veldyn🦁Lombax

Unfortunately, I’m not familiar with many of the classic sci-fi novels of old. I did read Fahrenheit 451 back in HS, though. Besides a few concepts that probably couldn’t readily exist in our real world, such as a literal giant robot dog, I think that universe reflects our current real world pretty accurately. Like, literal mass book burnings might not be a thing, but with all the mass book bannings and censorship in schools, I think this prediction was eerily spot on. Just accomplished in a different way. To be fair, I think there actually might be places that simply throw away or incinerate books, just not on a massive, government-sanctioned way. Parts of the US seem like it’s inching closer to that, though 😞

The state of the world in the Wall-E universe didn’t feel too far off from many places in the world (entire communities, really), that are essentially left to rot.

Ah, I should read the Black Fleet books then because that sounds very interesting. Do they play a prominent role in the story, or are they only written in passing to demonstrate different factions of Force users in the galaxy?

Speaking of which, it would be nice if more writers and SW creators tapped into this more and shifted focus to non-traditional Force Users. Especially considering that you have entire species that are naturally attuned to The Force.

I always thought it was really interesting that Luke had a sort of disconnect with formal, traditional Jedi culture. I thought that would’ve been a way for him to develop an entirely new, less conservative way of understanding The Force. But considering he was trained by Obi Wan, it makes sense that he still has a more hardline understanding of it. I have not reached the Jedi Academy or New Jedi Order books, yet, but I know things don’t end well.

Thanks for mentioning Farscape and Firefly because I have both on my watch list lol. Also, the thing about anime is that one of the unfortunate reasons why they’re produced so quickly is because the animators are always working overtime and are essentially exploited. Manga publishing sadly works the same way. That’s why Akira Toriyama had to walk away from DBZ after a time, then come back. That man LITERALLY had no regular breaks over the course of him writing and drawing the Dragonball Z manga. RIP 😞

I do get worried about the health of certain artists from various industries. A friend of mine told me about an animators strike that was going on about a month or two ago. I don’t recall if that strike was in the Japanese anime industry (wouldn’t be surprised; good for them) or if it was in the US (again, totally rooting for them).

But I do agree that with anime, there is a bit more freedom and fluidity to tell very different stories outside of what is often the norm in Western (I’m mostly referring to American) storytelling. Just like Sword Art. Which I guess isn’t too unique in, with the virtual reality game concept. I have watched it a few times, but never got into it.

I used to really be into a much older anime (back in middle school) that has a similar idea :Hack//Sign I’m not sure if you heard about that one. The thing I don’t remember is that really eerie, existential question of ‘if you die in the simulated game world, do you die in the real world?’ I can’t recall because so much of the series only focused on the virtual story.

Oh yeah, when you mention going back to old school space operas (because of lower CGI costs) that made me think of BattleStar Galactica for some reason. That one feels very “distant future”-ish but still deals with things that I think would be relevant if humans moved beyond Earth. I just started the series (mostly out of sheer curiosity, than genuine interest). I kept thinking about the sci-fi trope of “colonizing distant planets” / terraforming the environment despite potential indigenous beings and native flora/fauna being present.

I’ve always been worried about this concept, but I think more modern writers are aware of what colonizing other planets might imply and are more willing to explore what that really means. I know Dune addresses this, but there is the issue of the Savior trope which has always been pretty insensitive. Heck, even modern fantasy fiction is tackling this problem too. I know both the Greedfall and Pillars of Eternity games directly explore the myth (ideology) that America is basically based off.

I will check out “Exception”. I couldn’t get a grasp on what was going on in the trailer because there were no subtitles, but the plot you mentioned is very fascinating.

And I agree too that it is probably very unhelpful to display a future like in Star Trek, but then not to demonstrate the steps needed for a society to take in order to reach that egalitarianism. Many other fans have critiqued the series for this same reason, especially considering that Roddenberry himself had an odd rule of not showing any dramatic conflict in the first 2 seasons of Next Gen.

The last point you make about feeding the entire world (most probably because there is greater profit to be made from people’s deaths and their medical suffering) makes me think about how much times I’ve heard medical professionals complaining about the cost of vaccines and brand name medicine. Basically, a lot of pills can help many people if only the rights to the brand name version was released and manufacturers can mass produce generic versions. They’re still just as effective.

I wouldn’t mind seeing a sci-fi series where in a very near future, you have teams of people trying to use slightly more advanced tech to make food and meds more accessible to the poor, but then are met with backlash from giant insurance and pill companies whose profit margins are being challenged. I feel like some of these stories already exist in cyberpunk fiction, but I just haven’t been exposed to this exact story yet.

I totally vibe with this sentiment. I’m a FTM transmasc person and I’ve always been essentially a soft boi. I’ve never felt extremely drawn to traditional cis-masculinity, except when I saw it displayed by non-cis dudes (ironic, I know).

Even though my presentation is far more tomboyish and masc and that feels natural to me, I’ve never wanted to be manly man trans guy either. Being a genderfluid nb probably is why that is. I guess you can say I’m a slightly effeminate transguy? At least in terms of mannerisms.

Well, the good thing about Ghost in the Shell (I’m a huge fan, but I’m not caught up on the 2 newest series), is its internal canon structure. Because the entire series is originally based on a metaphysical, transhumanist novel, all the adaptions more or less share the same themes. The difference is how each story (the OG manga, anime, movies, OAV, etc.) approaches those themes and reworks the lead cast of characters. Anyway, GiTS: 2nd Gig (S2 of the first anime series) does address class struggles, with a specific focus on immigrants. I don’t think it was handled in a way that was very compelling, but the acknowledgement that the government could be doing far more to help its own citizens regardless of background was very clear.

A little addendum: Another manga/anime series that has similar class struggle metaphors is Battle Angel Alita / Gunnm (pronounced Gahn-moo). Again, getting cybernetic upgrades / prosthetics is not really an issue for poor folks. Many people just go to cyborg doctors or they simply build the parts with scrap metal. The problem in this world is when people are hunted and murdered for their prosthetics. I’m saying it’s roses, except for that. A huge chunk of the OG story happens on a giant scrap heap (where more people live) after all, so Elysium, AC, Gunnm and even Arcane (no spoilers for S2 please lol) have pretty stark parallels.

Ah, I assumed you were a Tolkien super fan with all the explaining. Well, that’s all right. I’m just getting into the original novels and I don’t think you’ve said anything that’s so drastic it makes me not want to continue reading. In fact, I’m actually much more curious now because Sauron has been let go and he’s making moves on the different factions. And a lot of the Elven lore is sprinkled throughout the book, so I think I will continue to be interested in the story. You’re good lol.

I think Starship Troopers was originally based on a novel. I recall some guy reading it in one of my old anime clubs at my university. I like to think the movie is close to the book, regarding warfare and imperialism in the near future as it relates to scientific advancement.

Oh and I mentioned Star Trek TOS that way because I still believe that it was a show unbelievably ahead of its time, but at the same time, extremely relevant for its own time (and unfortunately, still relevant today). Like, somehow Trek came out in 1966 not long after the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was signed and passed. I was thinking how that show was envisioning a world that seemed almost scary to imagine because the reality of so many BIPOCs reflected the exact opposite aspirational goals that the team was trying to convey. That’s why I think Trek is more like a world to look forward to. Not just people like myself, but all manner of minorities. It might seem hokey what Roddenberry was trying to convey, but I do like the narrative concept of having a sci-fi that is explicitly anti-war and anti-colonialist. At least to a degree.

As much I love Star Wars, its universe, with all the rampant oppression (and unfortunately, the meta racist tropes and cultural appropriation that the entire franchise uses to deliver its messages; more of genre problem, but I digress) in various forms, I do believe you’re right. That world reflects way better on the world we live in now.

I catch your point about the moral bankruptcy and spiritual corruption of the Jedi Order. It is a sad, but necessary reflection of real life religious institutions that essentially do as you described. Use religious texts, deliver spiritual teachings only to exploit these moral values for the sake of profiteering off of working class people. I’m not a-religious just to be clear, but I always feel a sense of great embarrassment when I see how spot on the “Jedi are hypocrites” argument can be to RL places of worship.

It is, at the end of the day, one perspective to view the Jedi. Unfortunately, other writers have taken suit to writing Jedi in a very similar manner as Lucas did in the prequels. Like, I totally get the critique because it’s well deserved. One has to still remember that the SW universe is enormous and not all Force-believing factions and beings function in the same corrupted manner as the late Republic Jedi.

That brings me to the your last comment. Again, I was gushing over Star Trek because even though there was noteworthy backstage drama and certain problematic aspects to it, it still kinda made me think of a world beyond our own. It still makes me think of sci-fi stories beyond what we are often given. Like, why does sci-fi as a genre always have to look like Star Wars or Starship Troopers. Or, hell, Terminator? Can we as a species not imagine ourselves in a world beyond all these self-destructive forms of oppression?

What I find super interesting about Ghost in the Shell (in comparison to Altered Carbon) is how they depict cyber brains. Basically, two or more (or even an entire small community) of people can connect to each other on a kind of neural network. Like a mind hub. Don’t know if they have that in AC, but basically you have USBs in the back of your neck and you can easily share information. Obviously, you’re at risk of being brain hacked, (like in the Cyberpunk game) but that seems both scary and kind of interesting because you might more easily be able to share information in way that you might not even be able to do over the web if you’re in a country that has a lot of government censorship of websites. Ghost in the Shell depicts this in a very normalized way. S1 of the first anime, Stand Alone Complex, shows the extreme danger of sharing information this way and how it can be used to manipulate people to commit copycat crimes.

Unfortunately, as you said, so much of this genre’s focus (with good reason) is on cautionary tales and warnings about technology. It would be truly lovely to see something that isn’t so far a utopia (to the point of alienating the audience), but also isn’t a straight up planet-rotting dystopia that literally is just an upsetting reflection of my own working class neighborhood. It would be nice to have an acknowledgment of the bad, but still something else. You know? I understand your exasperation.

Sorry for the long rambly replies. Your responses are thought provoking.

I have weird appreciation for lengthy replies like this, so thank you lol.

Okay, first: Altered Carbon. I really did attempt to watch this, but then was turned off by the amount of info dumping in the pilot alone. Thanks for explaining the lore because now I have a reason to give it a second chance. I initially watched for an actor I was interested in, then was intrigued by the thriller aspects, then immediately confused. Will def give it another go.

Oh and the Altered Carbon transhumanist aspects (or any other sci-fi that delves into “resurrection” via soul or consciousness transferring to a new body) always remind me of the Ghost in the Shell anime series. It deals with similar themes, but with a more philosophical and metaphysical approach. Also, I recall that in Ghost, mind transference into a “shell” (body) is not exclusive to the ultra wealthy. And getting cybernetic parts is something that many people can do, regardless of socioeconomic background. The issue is that if you wanted, say, a new leg due to a permanent injury, but you don’t have much cash, you might have to buy a very poor quality leg. If you know the series and I’m misremembering anything, feel free to correct me.

As for LOTR, I do believe you might have given me a spoiler unknowingly. I’m currently halfway through The Silmarillion and Melkor is tearing up the Elven and Human forces. Sauron was barely introduced. But nothing you just told me is anything that I am truly surprised by. I don’t recall if the Elven life cycle was completely explained at the point in the story where I am.

I understand your point about gullibility. There are so many examples of it in The Silmarillion. And I think all stories have some form of lesson in there, even if what can be learned is hard to find or unintended by the creator.

Also, Star Trek is an odd comparison to the others because I always believed Star Trek to be more aspirational rather than predictive of what is to come. As in, let’s look beyond this post-Jim Crow era. Imagine what our world will like if we moved far beyond all the petty racism, misogyny, homophobia and supremacy that plagued our ancestors.

I am not familiar with Starship Troopers, but stories like Altered Carbon and Elysium seem far more plausible in the very near future than any of the other sci fi universes out there. And I’m really only referring to the class inequality aspects, not the mind transfer detail.

deleted by creator

I know there are some scifi stories that have addressed this exact moral conundrum, like the Elysium movie (supposedly a spriritual successor to Disrict 9). I didn’t watch it from beginning to end, but I recall it bringing up the idea of poor people dealing with what’s left of Earth and the wealthy living in colonies beyond Earth. Something like that.

LMAO 😂 okay, but does it count if they’re running a distro that’s more bleeding edge?

No, I don’t think you’re wrong at all. Another semi-recent game that took a perhaps too optimistic view of how quickly our tech would advance was Detroit: Become Human. It came out back in 2018. I recall how the fandom (myself included) was kinda weirded out about the setting of that game, which was only 2038. So within a roughly 20 year time gap, the game presumes that our current tech in then 2018 would advance so far and fast by just 2038.