• OmegaMouse
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    1 year ago

    I’m not aware of the situation - are the journalists transphobic or the commenters?

    • bitteorca@artemis.camp
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      1 year ago

      The journalists. The Guardian has been shockingly bad when it comes to transphobia, to the point where the writers for the US edition has publicly criticized the UK edition.

    • rentar42@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      Given it’s position as a mostly progressive/liberal paper their line on transgender topics is weirdly backwards. And it’s not just commenters. It does match the overall atmosphere in the UK in general, but it’s extremely jarring when looking at it from the outside.

      And so that it’s not just a “I told you so”:

      • OmegaMouse
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        1 year ago

        Thanks for that. It is odd how these radical feminist views have gone so far that they loop back around to the far right. And yes it’s surprising that the Guardian is giving them a platform. I wonder why it does? Is it just the paper has always supported feminism, but the feminists that write their articles have become more radicalised over time?

        I really don’t understand how these radical feminists think that transgender rights are somehow eroding women’s rights. Every trans person I know just wants to get on with their lives, they don’t have some agenda. If you wrote an article about how gay rights are causing some issue it would be considered right-wing. So why is it different for trans rights? Crazy

      • HeartyBeast@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        From what I can tell, they don’t have “a line”. They are generally supportive of trans right and folks and they also acknowledge that there is debate over how some vulnerable women would still like spaces free both from men and from women who transitioned and were previously men. This is a difficult subject and I don’t think the paper is transphobic to carry the discussion. It’s what happens when the rights of two vulnerable communities collide.

          • asap@feddit.de
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            1 year ago

            Is their opinion incorrect? I’d be interested to hear a counterpoint.

            • rentar42@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              No.

              I’m not going to “debate you bro”. Build your own opinion, read the articles I linked, try to find an argument.

              Try to find good faith. Then maybe there can be a conversation.

              What OP described is exactly how TERFs phrase their fight against trans people in public. I’m not going to engage with those arguments, because they either come from ignorance (which I’m not energetic enough to combat today) or from a place of bad faith “discussions”.

              • asap@feddit.de
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                1 year ago

                Oof. Wasn’t asking for a debate, simply asked your perspective.

                You know I’m not “HeartyBeast”, right?

                • rentar42@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  I think my position on that was made clear enough by my original post and my reply.

                  You might have been asking in entirely good faith, but the issue is that this “oh, can you please explain your point of view to me” approach is so extremely frequently presented in bad faith and costs so much energy from those who care about topics like this.

                  • asap@feddit.de
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                    1 year ago

                    Ok. Your first linked article is taking issue with the Guardian for saying “If a lesbian only desires same-sex dates that’s not bigotry, it’s her right”.

                    Your position is that you disagree with the Guardian here?

              • HeartyBeast@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                I read the articles you linked, and that was the conclusion I drew. I’m not sure its helpful to accuse me of reaching them through either ‘ignorance’ or ‘bad faith’. I have empathy for the difficulties of the trans community, but I also have empathy for women who have suffered abuse.

                I’m honestly not sure how to square that circle yet. But I don’t think shutting down a conversation with ‘the paper is transphobic, full stop’ is great.

              • JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                With your self-righteous attitude and allergy to contradiction you are literally proving the arguments of the far right. You are part of the reason the left cannot win elections any more. You are not helping anyone or anything.

    • AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space
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      1 year ago

      There are rumours that the editor, Kath Viner, is a TERF, though she hasn’t made her own views clear. The Guardian has given columns to a lot of professional anti-trans commentators, such as Hadley Freeman, Julie Bindel and Suzanne Moore.

      • JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        For casual readers, please observe the nasty nature of these personal attacks, and please note that the viewpoint of the person expressing them is NOT shared by everyone on the left.