These are by Rebecca Keogh (and others), an actual cognitive neuroscience specialist/psychology researcher who has a PhD from one of the most well-regarded universities in Australia. Here they establish that there is real evidence that aphantasiacs lack mental imagery, and finds that there is no evidence backing the claim that “aphantasiacs have mental imagery”. Keogh also has some works that delve deeper into mental imagery and how it’s a spectrum, including aphantasiacs and hyperphantasiacs.
I shouldn’t even have to give sources because I’m not the one claiming an abnormality in visual imagery is fake but here you go anyways.
It literally comes up immediately when you search for aphantasia research. You clearly have not even tried to find research on aphantasia. Now where are your sources? I notice you didn’t link any, at all.
MBTI testing is also horseshit.
??? Where in the god damn fuck did I mention MBTI or personality tests in general in my original comment?
I didn’t see it “debunked” on Hacker News and Reddit, those are the #1 aphantasia and ADHD havers in the entire world.
And yet you don’t mention where you “saw it debunked”, just stating that you totally did bro.
It’s hilarious you think something less rigorous than IQ testing is on the same level as PTSD
Again, you are being crazy, you are quite literally making up arguments to attack out of your ass.
I don’t know why you decided this is the hill for you to die on despite you clearly having no idea of what you’re talking about and most respected psychology & neuroscience/cognition researchers who have tackled the subject clearly not being aligned with your views on the matter at all, and what makes you think you have any authority to just call a scientifically measured and agreed-to -exist phenomenon fake, but go ahead and have a tantrum and pretend you know anything about the subject I guess.
If you respond with internet magazines or a shitty YouTube video essay as your source I’m gonna laugh myself to asphyxiation
Does Aphantasia also cause the development of superhuman levels of patience? Because my dude, i don’t know how you managed to entertain this troll for as long as you have. This whole thread was highly entertaining though, so thanks for that, lol.
(I know it goes deeper but i didn’t want to bury my comment that far down)
It’s extremely funny unblocking his profile once and seeing him on other random posts and replying to random comments threads I’m in, calling video game players mentally deficient, saying the people that are replying to him and downvoting him are bots (people obviously being extremely confused as to wtf his rambling has to do with the thread and scolding him for following users and harassing them), spam replying some random German dude and calling him my alt for no apparent reason, just in general being extremely obsessive/delusional over the comments. His meltdown alone was worth this comment thread lmfaooo. He’s paranoid as hell of everyone on the site now and lives in fear that all the users he interacts with may just be me in disguise, it’s glorious
Psychology Today has done a number on you, what a frantically googling moron, the first study has N=15, it’s entirely based on self-diagnosis and surveys. They want to come up with a neurological basis for it based off fifteen people self-reporting fuck off lmfao.
Oh wow she has a PHD??? We have to listen to her obviously. I hate pseuds and their credentialism hahahaha you’re full of it
Can’t wait to see the second one.
This is like when my sister decided she was a super taster and that cilantro tastes like soap.
I never said I was particularly impressed with the rigor of ALL NEUROSCIENTISTS, they are as bad as physicists involved with string theory. Unfalsifiable nonsense. This is the kind of shit I’m talking about when I trash the entire field of “smart science” that’s been picked up by TPOT and Lesswrong and other pseuds.
saw it debunked
Oh you want me to prove aphantasia isn’t real lol, no wonder you have trouble with things like this where people play word games, you’re completely devoid of logic. The onus is on you, and neuroscientists, to prove it exists.
What you did is go pull every paper you could possibly find which reinforces your identity.
Buddy you’re coping so hard. You said you saw a reliable source debunk aphantasia, and now you’ve been caught in your lie and you’re trying to weasel your way out. Some of these papers also have pools of various phantasiacs in the hundreds to thousands. A few of the sources clearly state (and give a source for) tens of thousands of people having been diagnosed with aphantasia.
Where is this “debunking” you said you saw? Is your angle now just “scientists are wrong and bad and having actual evidence on different levels of mental visual imagery is fake news, even though I am saying it’s wrong with no knowledge of neuroscience or psychology at all”?
Many people are diagnosed with “ADHD” too idiot, it’s just a sleep disruption disorder.
I’m talking about meta analysis of studies on people with aphantasia, because studies are all like the crap you just posted. People don’t just slurp up every study they can find on Google you fucking idiot…
Did you think I meant “Mythbusters” style takedown? I bet you want a youtube video. You could cure your “aphantasia” by reading books before bed instead of using the computer, but you won’t.
That’s what I mean psychology is such a clown shoes “science”.
You’d rather stay up late reading this shit than actually try to improve your health. It’s a disease a lot like ADHD.
Ah so now you’re just going on a tangent in a desperate attempt to drive the conversation away from where you’ve been established to be wrong according to an ocean of credible researchers on the subject.
Many people are diagnosed with “ADHD” too idiot, it’s just a sleep disruption disorder.
Oh my God this cannot be real. Now you can find a thousand papers with a sample size you’ll like which very much establish your view as idiotic. But let me guess, the scientists are wrong and you’re right despite not being a medical researcher or even a medical professional at all? What authority do you think you have on this?
The fact is that the burden of proof is on you considering you’re arguing against established psychology/neuroscience research in the field that has had qualified researchers agreeing to the existence of. You can not just pull “science is wrong” out of your ass.
You are a bad liar. You have no evidence to your claims and the entire argument you make is “just trust me bro, even if the scientific community disagrees with me and I can’t find a source for my incorrect claims I still totally am right”.
You’re grandstanding, but I’m just trying to get through what I mean to you. There’s no point in deliberately misinterpreting it lol.
An ocean of “credible researchers” gave us “adhd” a disorder where kids who don’t sleep enough get treated with amphetamines, yes. It’s not a tangent, it’s a direct comparison to a huge scandal taking place in psychology psychiatry and neuroscience. They have no responsibility to isolate whatever they study from environmental causes. So they just end up looking for genetic associations where there are none. Don’t sleep enough, it gets harder to FOCUS, not only on schoolwork, but your imagination itself. Are you starting to “get the picture”? 😁
There is no way you’re actually being real at this point. Do you have any qualifications in medical research (if so state the qualifications), and have you ever written a paper studying neuroscience or even had higher education on the matter? Do you think you are more credible on the matter than ADHD&Autism experts and specialists in mental imagery? Don’t flood your comment with other bullshit noise, just answer those two questions.
You don’t have any of those things either, you just blindly trust in whatever is coming out of psychology journals. That’s the opposite of what someone performing a critical meta-analysis of “aphantasia” or “adhd” or autism studies would do.
You’re clearly not a very logical person, I was referencing the existence of this kind of data you presented me with from the very start. ADHD has also been pretty thoroughly debunked
But clearly the many, many researchers on the subject do and they pretty much all blatantly accept that aphantasia is very real. This is the consensus between pretty much all of the modern research on the subject.
you just blindly trust in whatever is coming out of psychology journals.
Brother I have linked you multiple studies, one with a sample size in the thousands.
That’s the opposite of what someone performing a critical meta-analysis of “aphantasia” or “adhd” or autism studies would do.
I linked multiple meta-analyses and the researchers all have multiple papers where they affirm the existence of aphantasia. Neither of us are qualified to say the scientific community is wrong on science.
You’re clearly not a very logical person,
I am the only one with real data. You are just saying “that data isn’t good enough!” while having no data of your own.
Here, I’ll stop being a cunt if you humor this example:
Histrionic personality disorder “isn’t real” and was “never fuckin real” by my definitions. Were there people who fit the description? Yes. But it’s not a rigorous definition of what’s happening. I don’t think these studies do a good job of showing it’s not metacognition, environmental, or behavioral factors wrapped up into a buzzword. I will respect your wall of links by pulling some examples from them rather than just complaining about the small sample size or where the sample was taken.
“By my definitions” is the problem. You have 0 qualification or education on the matter so you don’t get to change definitions. You have no say in what medical conditions are.
This is the problem with the I Fucking Love Science crowd, your fun facts quickly turn into barrages of narcissistic gibberish whenever someone doesn’t give you validation. There’s no rigor, there’s no questioning, there’s no meta-analysis.
Just TRUST THE SCIENTISTS, LOOK AT THE STUDIESESS nevermind whether they’re any good. Go post about the Stanford Prison Experiment or something you irritating pseud.
Oh so your actual stance is “science isn’t real”. LMAO. You’re so pathetic, you actually think there’s a conspiracy by dozens of some very well-known and trusted neuroscience/psychology researchers on the subject, even specialists in the field (some of which have aphantasia themselves) to make up aphantasia?
“If I don’t like the ocean of sources and independent research, I’ll just disregard it, even if I have no evidence myself for my claim.”
You’re a fucking moron, you know what you just did, you went and googled “aphantasia” and posted everything that came up because I made you mad by telling you to live more healthily and look at plants and sleep better and see if you magically get the ability to imagine an apple back.
Studies get meta-analysis on them all the time and get questioned en masse, that’s how science works. Is every scientist who does meta analysis on studies now a conspiracy theorist? 🤣😂
Lol you clearly don’t understand what I’m saying.
Yes, and there are other meta-analyses of aphantasia studies which explore how bad the data is. You can also have a meta-analysis that says “wow, look at all of this data, isn’t it amazing?” you only want to do B.
Our whole definition of a healthy individual is flawed. When testosterone levels drop nationwide, that becomes the new normal threshold for people administering testosterone therapy, for instance. Everyone has sleep problems from a sedentary lifestyle nowadays, starting in school, and that’s when they get diagnosed with ADHD.
and there are other meta-analyses of aphantasia studies which explore how bad the data is.
Multiple of the studies (including ones I linked) suggest that there isn’t as much data on the subject as there is on other disorders since mental imagery has only recently started being explored in-depth, but where exactly do you see any that suggest that aphantasia isn’t real or that the lack of data establishes no consensus on the existence of aphantasia? Because a “debunking” would do that, but all of the meta-analyses I’ve come across still accept the existence of aphantasia as a chronic disorder.
Pretty funny how you make these grandiose claims but never have a source. Your only source is Reddit threads on people saying it’s not real lol.
Much of the data is good. It’s good data with good methodology that is very clearly explained. It is literally just not as high in volume as most other disorders.
I don’t need to prove that “God doesn’t exist” if there’s no scientific proof that God exists. But there is much scientific proof which draws the conclusion of aphantasia existing.
If there is anything keeping people from having solid visualizations throughout the day, it’s not sleeping enough. It’s a night-and day difference in mental imagery. None of these studies control for anything like that or sleep, which really just shows you how hard they are fishing for something which isn’t there.
A lot of sleep issues are totally incurable without switching to back sleeping, getting rid of lint (people refuse to do this), and eliminating a sedentary lifestyle.
Now if you tried to do studies on people like that you wouldn’t be able to find any. But I can tell you I’ve experienced “aphantasia” and it’s cured by getting a good night’s sleep. A lot of people never get a good night’s sleep ever.
Keep evading and making BS claims that you said you had sources for, despite you not having sources. Nobody’s buying your pseudoscientific anti-science drivel, go huff some minerals or something.
You said you had sources for “aphantasia is real”. Where are they? You think you can lie that easily and wiggle your way out of it? Clearly they’re very established in your memory since you’re so confident that it’s a total debunking of aphantasia.
These sources are evidence of how nonsensical the studies on “aphantasia” are. Bunch of self-reporting nonsense. It’s like how they just gave up on autism and let anyone claim they have it for studies. You’re useless, you’re just making the science worse with your desire to take online personality tests.
One
Two
Three
These are by Rebecca Keogh (and others), an actual cognitive neuroscience specialist/psychology researcher who has a PhD from one of the most well-regarded universities in Australia. Here they establish that there is real evidence that aphantasiacs lack mental imagery, and finds that there is no evidence backing the claim that “aphantasiacs have mental imagery”. Keogh also has some works that delve deeper into mental imagery and how it’s a spectrum, including aphantasiacs and hyperphantasiacs.
Paper by Liana Palermo, PhD in cognitive neuroscience and specialist in mental imagery research, who very bluntly accepts the existence of multiple types of aphantasia & hyperphantasia
This paper by CJ Dance addresses the prevalence of aphantasia and how it is, again, a spectrum, and discredits the idea that it isn’t simply an impairment in metacognition, rather it is an isolated deficit in visual imagery.
Here’s a paper involving MANY medical, psychology, and neuroscience researchers which goes over aphantasia and hyperphantasia research, and has many citations to papers that affirm the existence of aphantasia.
A paper by a STEM/IM researcher finding evidence for deficits in mathematic visualization in aphantasiacs.
Paolo Bartolomeo is a highly accreddited neurologist & researcher, and Jianghao Liu is a cognitive neuroscience researcher (PhD) with specialization in visual mental imagery and consciousness. The paper clearly states the existence of a disorder causing absent or nearly absent visual imagery called aphantasia.
Here’s Cleveland Clinic casually affirming its existence too.
I shouldn’t even have to give sources because I’m not the one claiming an abnormality in visual imagery is fake but here you go anyways.
It literally comes up immediately when you search for aphantasia research. You clearly have not even tried to find research on aphantasia. Now where are your sources? I notice you didn’t link any, at all.
??? Where in the god damn fuck did I mention MBTI or personality tests in general in my original comment?
And yet you don’t mention where you “saw it debunked”, just stating that you totally did bro.
Again, you are being crazy, you are quite literally making up arguments to attack out of your ass.
I don’t know why you decided this is the hill for you to die on despite you clearly having no idea of what you’re talking about and most respected psychology & neuroscience/cognition researchers who have tackled the subject clearly not being aligned with your views on the matter at all, and what makes you think you have any authority to just call a scientifically measured and agreed-to -exist phenomenon fake, but go ahead and have a tantrum and pretend you know anything about the subject I guess.
If you respond with internet magazines or a shitty YouTube video essay as your source I’m gonna laugh myself to asphyxiation
I just witnessed a murder lol
Does Aphantasia also cause the development of superhuman levels of patience? Because my dude, i don’t know how you managed to entertain this troll for as long as you have. This whole thread was highly entertaining though, so thanks for that, lol.
(I know it goes deeper but i didn’t want to bury my comment that far down)
It’s extremely funny unblocking his profile once and seeing him on other random posts and replying to random comments threads I’m in, calling video game players mentally deficient, saying the people that are replying to him and downvoting him are bots (people obviously being extremely confused as to wtf his rambling has to do with the thread and scolding him for following users and harassing them), spam replying some random German dude and calling him my alt for no apparent reason, just in general being extremely obsessive/delusional over the comments. His meltdown alone was worth this comment thread lmfaooo. He’s paranoid as hell of everyone on the site now and lives in fear that all the users he interacts with may just be me in disguise, it’s glorious
Psychology Today has done a number on you, what a frantically googling moron, the first study has N=15, it’s entirely based on self-diagnosis and surveys. They want to come up with a neurological basis for it based off fifteen people self-reporting fuck off lmfao.
Oh wow she has a PHD??? We have to listen to her obviously. I hate pseuds and their credentialism hahahaha you’re full of it
Can’t wait to see the second one.
This is like when my sister decided she was a super taster and that cilantro tastes like soap.
I never said I was particularly impressed with the rigor of ALL NEUROSCIENTISTS, they are as bad as physicists involved with string theory. Unfalsifiable nonsense. This is the kind of shit I’m talking about when I trash the entire field of “smart science” that’s been picked up by TPOT and Lesswrong and other pseuds.
Oh you want me to prove aphantasia isn’t real lol, no wonder you have trouble with things like this where people play word games, you’re completely devoid of logic. The onus is on you, and neuroscientists, to prove it exists.
What you did is go pull every paper you could possibly find which reinforces your identity.
Buddy you’re coping so hard. You said you saw a reliable source debunk aphantasia, and now you’ve been caught in your lie and you’re trying to weasel your way out. Some of these papers also have pools of various phantasiacs in the hundreds to thousands. A few of the sources clearly state (and give a source for) tens of thousands of people having been diagnosed with aphantasia.
Where is this “debunking” you said you saw? Is your angle now just “scientists are wrong and bad and having actual evidence on different levels of mental visual imagery is fake news, even though I am saying it’s wrong with no knowledge of neuroscience or psychology at all”?
Many people are diagnosed with “ADHD” too idiot, it’s just a sleep disruption disorder. I’m talking about meta analysis of studies on people with aphantasia, because studies are all like the crap you just posted. People don’t just slurp up every study they can find on Google you fucking idiot… Did you think I meant “Mythbusters” style takedown? I bet you want a youtube video. You could cure your “aphantasia” by reading books before bed instead of using the computer, but you won’t. That’s what I mean psychology is such a clown shoes “science”. You’d rather stay up late reading this shit than actually try to improve your health. It’s a disease a lot like ADHD.
Ah so now you’re just going on a tangent in a desperate attempt to drive the conversation away from where you’ve been established to be wrong according to an ocean of credible researchers on the subject.
Oh my God this cannot be real. Now you can find a thousand papers with a sample size you’ll like which very much establish your view as idiotic. But let me guess, the scientists are wrong and you’re right despite not being a medical researcher or even a medical professional at all? What authority do you think you have on this?
The fact is that the burden of proof is on you considering you’re arguing against established psychology/neuroscience research in the field that has had qualified researchers agreeing to the existence of. You can not just pull “science is wrong” out of your ass.
You are a bad liar. You have no evidence to your claims and the entire argument you make is “just trust me bro, even if the scientific community disagrees with me and I can’t find a source for my incorrect claims I still totally am right”.
You’re grandstanding, but I’m just trying to get through what I mean to you. There’s no point in deliberately misinterpreting it lol.
An ocean of “credible researchers” gave us “adhd” a disorder where kids who don’t sleep enough get treated with amphetamines, yes. It’s not a tangent, it’s a direct comparison to a huge scandal taking place in psychology psychiatry and neuroscience. They have no responsibility to isolate whatever they study from environmental causes. So they just end up looking for genetic associations where there are none. Don’t sleep enough, it gets harder to FOCUS, not only on schoolwork, but your imagination itself. Are you starting to “get the picture”? 😁
There is no way you’re actually being real at this point. Do you have any qualifications in medical research (if so state the qualifications), and have you ever written a paper studying neuroscience or even had higher education on the matter? Do you think you are more credible on the matter than ADHD&Autism experts and specialists in mental imagery? Don’t flood your comment with other bullshit noise, just answer those two questions.
You don’t have any of those things either, you just blindly trust in whatever is coming out of psychology journals. That’s the opposite of what someone performing a critical meta-analysis of “aphantasia” or “adhd” or autism studies would do.
You’re clearly not a very logical person, I was referencing the existence of this kind of data you presented me with from the very start. ADHD has also been pretty thoroughly debunked
But clearly the many, many researchers on the subject do and they pretty much all blatantly accept that aphantasia is very real. This is the consensus between pretty much all of the modern research on the subject.
Brother I have linked you multiple studies, one with a sample size in the thousands.
I linked multiple meta-analyses and the researchers all have multiple papers where they affirm the existence of aphantasia. Neither of us are qualified to say the scientific community is wrong on science.
I am the only one with real data. You are just saying “that data isn’t good enough!” while having no data of your own.
Lmao complete bullshit. “It’s been debunked!!!” yet you can provide zero actual evidence. Here’s an analysis of ADHD research, another one, here’s one on the effectiveness of treating ADHD, here’s another one. Tell a neuroscience researcher “ADHD doesn’t exist” and you’ll be laughed at, much of the data is extremely high quality with large sample sizes (there’s even research with tens of thousands of participants).
Here, I’ll stop being a cunt if you humor this example:
Histrionic personality disorder “isn’t real” and was “never fuckin real” by my definitions. Were there people who fit the description? Yes. But it’s not a rigorous definition of what’s happening. I don’t think these studies do a good job of showing it’s not metacognition, environmental, or behavioral factors wrapped up into a buzzword. I will respect your wall of links by pulling some examples from them rather than just complaining about the small sample size or where the sample was taken.
“By my definitions” is the problem. You have 0 qualification or education on the matter so you don’t get to change definitions. You have no say in what medical conditions are.
This is the problem with the I Fucking Love Science crowd, your fun facts quickly turn into barrages of narcissistic gibberish whenever someone doesn’t give you validation. There’s no rigor, there’s no questioning, there’s no meta-analysis.
Just TRUST THE SCIENTISTS, LOOK AT THE STUDIESESS nevermind whether they’re any good. Go post about the Stanford Prison Experiment or something you irritating pseud.
Oh so your actual stance is “science isn’t real”. LMAO. You’re so pathetic, you actually think there’s a conspiracy by dozens of some very well-known and trusted neuroscience/psychology researchers on the subject, even specialists in the field (some of which have aphantasia themselves) to make up aphantasia?
“If I don’t like the ocean of sources and independent research, I’ll just disregard it, even if I have no evidence myself for my claim.”
You’re a fucking moron, you know what you just did, you went and googled “aphantasia” and posted everything that came up because I made you mad by telling you to live more healthily and look at plants and sleep better and see if you magically get the ability to imagine an apple back.
Studies get meta-analysis on them all the time and get questioned en masse, that’s how science works. Is every scientist who does meta analysis on studies now a conspiracy theorist? 🤣😂
You are a dumbass, multiple of the studies are meta-analyses and many very clearly state that the group studied are otherwise healthy individuals.
You have no evidence for your BS claims and that makes you mad.
Lol you clearly don’t understand what I’m saying. Yes, and there are other meta-analyses of aphantasia studies which explore how bad the data is. You can also have a meta-analysis that says “wow, look at all of this data, isn’t it amazing?” you only want to do B. Our whole definition of a healthy individual is flawed. When testosterone levels drop nationwide, that becomes the new normal threshold for people administering testosterone therapy, for instance. Everyone has sleep problems from a sedentary lifestyle nowadays, starting in school, and that’s when they get diagnosed with ADHD.
Multiple of the studies (including ones I linked) suggest that there isn’t as much data on the subject as there is on other disorders since mental imagery has only recently started being explored in-depth, but where exactly do you see any that suggest that aphantasia isn’t real or that the lack of data establishes no consensus on the existence of aphantasia? Because a “debunking” would do that, but all of the meta-analyses I’ve come across still accept the existence of aphantasia as a chronic disorder.
Pretty funny how you make these grandiose claims but never have a source. Your only source is Reddit threads on people saying it’s not real lol.
wow just like string theory. the enshittification of science has been going on since the 90s man
Much of the data is good. It’s good data with good methodology that is very clearly explained. It is literally just not as high in volume as most other disorders.
Prove god doesn’t exist you little weasel
I don’t need to prove that “God doesn’t exist” if there’s no scientific proof that God exists. But there is much scientific proof which draws the conclusion of aphantasia existing.
If there is anything keeping people from having solid visualizations throughout the day, it’s not sleeping enough. It’s a night-and day difference in mental imagery. None of these studies control for anything like that or sleep, which really just shows you how hard they are fishing for something which isn’t there. A lot of sleep issues are totally incurable without switching to back sleeping, getting rid of lint (people refuse to do this), and eliminating a sedentary lifestyle. Now if you tried to do studies on people like that you wouldn’t be able to find any. But I can tell you I’ve experienced “aphantasia” and it’s cured by getting a good night’s sleep. A lot of people never get a good night’s sleep ever.
Keep evading and making BS claims that you said you had sources for, despite you not having sources. Nobody’s buying your pseudoscientific anti-science drivel, go huff some minerals or something.
You said you had sources for “aphantasia is real”. Where are they? You think you can lie that easily and wiggle your way out of it? Clearly they’re very established in your memory since you’re so confident that it’s a total debunking of aphantasia.
He’s from ml, that’s what they do
These sources are evidence of how nonsensical the studies on “aphantasia” are. Bunch of self-reporting nonsense. It’s like how they just gave up on autism and let anyone claim they have it for studies. You’re useless, you’re just making the science worse with your desire to take online personality tests.