Hello everyone,

Based on the recent instability of Lemmy.world, a lot of people have been wondering whether they should move to another instance.

I used to look at https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/list and recommend people to pick a generalist instance with as much users as possible (using the 1m column), usually

Of course, there are also the regional options

And of course, the thematic instances

I used to recommend the most populated instances, as we know that All depends on users subscribed from the instance.

However, now with the introduction of the Lemmy Community Seeder (https://github.com/Fmstrat/lcs), which

tells your instance to pull the top communities and the communities with the top posts from your favorite instances

do you think this should still apply? I have seen promising instances (high uptime, already on 18.4 that was released today)

Would you recommend users to join those as well, assuming that the admins use the LCS to populate the All feed? Most of us remember the Vlemmy.net disappearance, and it’s difficult to tell users to join small instances based on good faith, but at the same time, every instance needs to start somewhere, and they should be given a chance.

What do you think?

  • @maporita@unilem.org
    link
    fedilink
    3410 months ago

    High on my list of important attributes is an instance that specifically does not defederate from others. If I see something I don’t want to see anymore I just block it myself. But I’d rather be treated like an adult capable of making my own decisions about what to see and read. If you’re also looking for this I suggest unilem.

    • gabe [he/him]
      link
      fedilink
      28
      edit-2
      10 months ago

      Not even the the instances that host outright hatred or drawn CP? Having that federate in is pretty bad.

      • @maporita@unilem.org
        link
        fedilink
        410 months ago

        No illegal content so definitely no CP. I believe that hate speech is banned of it meets the threshold of incitement to violence.

    • loops
      link
      fedilink
      English
      7
      edit-2
      10 months ago

      AFAIK you can’t block an instance from your account. I.e. I like to keep tabs on the invasion of Ukraine, but one of the instances I used to use for that still federates with lemmygrad, so I would get russian propaganda in my feed from time to time. I would block that user, but there would always be another one eventually. I just don’t usually use that instance much any more.

  • ᴇᴍᴘᴇʀᴏʀ 帝A
    link
    English
    1910 months ago

    I went with Feddit.uk as I am in the UK and it also helps give a more local spin to things because, increasingly, the English-language web seems to default to an American take on things and so going local helps counter that.

    Plus uptime is good and the admin has said they will wield the defederation hammer sparingly.

  • Ulu-Mulu-no-die
    link
    fedilink
    English
    1910 months ago

    with as much users as possible

    Wouldn’t this lead to the same problems lemmy.world is having?

    I would recommend choosing based on interests, rules that align with you, proximity to where you live, stuff like that. Population is not a problem, you can still participate everywhere because of federation.

    • @Blaze@sopuli.xyzOP
      link
      fedilink
      310 months ago

      The issues with choosing a small instance (let’s say less than 500 users) is that your All feed would be quite empty, as only communities that people on your instances subscribed to would show up, which is an issues with discoverability of new content.

      As I said in the post, the LCS tool can be a mitigation against that.

      Otherwise, I generally agree with you

      • Ulu-Mulu-no-die
        link
        fedilink
        English
        1310 months ago

        I joined the fediverse a couple months ago, before the reddit protest started, admins of lemmy.ml were asking people to join smaller instances because they were being overloaded.

        So an instance with less than 500 users was the parameter I used to choose, that instance was lemmy.world lol, look at where they are now.

        I created a second account on lemm.ee only a few days ago for various reason, being populated wasn’t one of them :)

      • @guts@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        210 months ago

        You can lurk all the federation in clients, better choose an instance of your liking and is federated.

  • frozen
    link
    fedilink
    1810 months ago

    I advertised my instance in a different thread. It’s been almost exclusively a single-user instance, and I use both LCS and Lemmony to federate popular content. I’ve been exceedingly happy with it and don’t plan on going anywhere, so I figured I could handle a few extra users.

    So if your criteria include:

    • High uptime
    • Federation with popular content
    • Sensible rules

    … feel free to check my instance out. Do note that so far, I’ve only defederated from exploding-heads (right-wing trolls) and threads (preemptively, of course).

    I’ll probably cap registrations at 100 users or so, just to make sure my systems can handle the load, then see where things stand.

  • Ada
    link
    fedilink
    English
    1810 months ago

    If I were to move instance for some reason, my primary concern would be that they aggressively and pro-actively moderate bigotry of all sorts, rather than "both sides"ing it

      • stebo
        link
        fedilink
        1010 months ago

        Lol I love the duality of lemmy: the first top comment says “the least defederations, the better”, while the second top comment states the exact opposite.

        I’m somewhere in-between. Defederation from obvious problematic instances (like lemmygrad, explodingheads etc.) is important, but there’s no need to overdo it.

        • gabe [he/him]
          link
          fedilink
          310 months ago

          Yeah. The reason why mine is so large is because it copies over from across the fediverse, not just in lemmy.

    • @Overzeetop@beehaw.org
      link
      fedilink
      English
      910 months ago

      So…beehaw?

      TBF, I have accounts at beehaw, world, and sopuli in addition to kbin. Each one has its own feel, and sometimes I’ll pull one up just based on my mood.

  • @xapr@lemmy.sdf.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    1510 months ago

    My three top criteria for picking an instance were:

    1. Little to no defederation issues, in either direction.
    2. Likely to stick around for the long term.
    3. Relatively small.
  • @chrisbit@leminal.space
    link
    fedilink
    English
    1410 months ago

    I’m the admin of mine. Why? Because I enjoy doing, it’s in the spirit of decentralisation, and I didn’t want to risk being part of an instance that defederates from leftist instances like Lemmygrad or Hexbear. I only intend to proactively defederate from fascist and troll instances, and NSFW to reduce legal drama.

    • @guts@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      410 months ago

      And this is the big advantage of Lemmy being decentralized, people don’t need to choose an instance with your political idiology.

        • @kd637_mi@lemmy.sdf.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          2
          edit-2
          10 months ago

          Hell yeah, I’m concerned that if SDF decides to block instance they will include Lemmygrad and Hexbear so I might make an account on yours. I assume you’re defederated from stuff like exploding heads, rammy, and burggitt?

          Actually just checked your list, perfect blocked instances list and absolutely sick instance theme. Love it. I’m in 😎

    • trimmerfrost
      link
      fedilink
      -1710 months ago

      “I don’t defederate from leftist instances, but do from rightist instances”. Okay

            • trimmerfrost
              link
              fedilink
              -10
              edit-2
              10 months ago

              When you are running a mainstream public service, you should be automatically obliged to uphold every dissenting speech. Otherwise, you will end up effectively censoring free speech

              I know instances don’t have to technically do that. But the same argument can be said for countries too. Islamic fascist countries like Iran say, “we will run our country whatever way we want”, which translates to murdering atheists, homosexuals, non-muslims and apostates, axing every obvious right, etc etc

              • @chrisbit@leminal.space
                link
                fedilink
                English
                1010 months ago

                Hey, I get where you’re coming from, but I don’t see this as being a ‘free speech’ issue. This isn’t a public service that anyone is obliged to use - it’s social media that I’m spending my time and money administering, and I don’t want that effort to in any way spread right wing discourse, because I see it as harmful.

                Similarly, even if it was a public service that we’re talking about, say a national broadcaster, I don’t buy into the notion that they should carry ‘both sides of the story’ out of a sense of ‘balance’, or upholding ‘free speech’, if the other side are nutters.

                • Ulu-Mulu-no-die
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  510 months ago

                  You have to right to do what you want, people criticizing your choices are those who are confused about what free speech really means (hint: it’s about the government, it doesn’t apply to private entities).

              • Ulu-Mulu-no-die
                link
                fedilink
                English
                710 months ago

                Free speech means they don’t arrest you for what you say, it’s about the government, not private entities.

                Private platforms are free to do what they want, free speech rules don’t apply to them.

                • trimmerfrost
                  link
                  fedilink
                  -210 months ago

                  I have already answered your line of argument in my comment you replied against. I’m not going to repeat it if you can’t comprehend

              • @EssentialCoffee@midwest.social
                link
                fedilink
                English
                410 months ago

                When you are running a mainstream public service

                What government is running a Lemmy instance and allowing regular people to make personal accounts?

                I know instances don’t have to technically do that. But the same argument can be said for countries too.

                Any individuals claiming sovereign immunity likely need mental help.

              • @quat@lemmy.sdfeu.org
                link
                fedilink
                310 months ago

                Imho, the argument doesn’t translate to countries. In Iran, the government has a monopoly on governing, and most people can’t just hop over to another country with different laws. In effect, you can be stuck with a system you don’t like.

                In the digital world, and Lemmy in particular, the same is not true. If you have a computer, you can “start a new country” with your own rules. No one is forced to join, and you can’t force anyone else to do anything. As a whole, Lemmy allows all opinions. The problem is central power, and free federated software is a solution.

                • trimmerfrost
                  link
                  fedilink
                  -210 months ago

                  I get that. It’s an analogy, so it’s not going to be exactly the same particular situation. My point is when MANY BIG instances choose to censor one set of opinions, it’s going to stifle free speech. Until the censored people, make and grow their own instance up to the same level of popularity

              • @TraditionalMuslim@reddthat.com
                link
                fedilink
                110 months ago

                So you’re obliging people do something just because you don’t like the way they operate? And at the same time call out fascism yet here you are demonstrating yours.

                • trimmerfrost
                  link
                  fedilink
                  010 months ago

                  A resouding yes. Why should you not call out and put an end to the way Nazis, Chinese communists, Muslim Brotherhood or KKK operate? Is fighting against violent fascists fascism, in order to clear way for a free and just society?

    • stebo
      link
      fedilink
      310 months ago

      it would be really funny if that instance stopped working

      • @Thaolin@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        410 months ago

        It frequently does sadly. it’s run by one guy and I think it is starting to cost quite a bit to host. I’m pretty sure it’s hosted in Canada and our Internet and hosting costs here are asinine.

    • @Blaze@sopuli.xyzOP
      link
      fedilink
      310 months ago

      SDF is indeed a nice community.

      The issue with Beehaw is their defederation from Lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works, which prevents accessing some communities (even though I’m not a 100% if it’s bidirectional or only one way)

  • @NightOwl@lemmy.one
    link
    fedilink
    English
    910 months ago

    I went with lemmy.one because of privacyguides from reddit, and I liked that the move of actually being serious about the protest by making an alternative to move away from. Very few of the subreddits I subscribed to ever decided to make an instance or a fediverse community, so lemmy.one was what I defaulted to in the beginning. Since then Android has made an instance too, so that’d be my second choice. Anyways, that’s how I decided by going with what I was familiar with.

  • circuitfarmer
    link
    fedilink
    9
    edit-2
    10 months ago

    I like having an instance with local communities that match some of my interests. I also tried to find one a little more niche, but not so small as to be run out of someone’s closet. And of course, always donate to your home instance. Bandwidth doesn’t grow on trees!

    On the privacy side, it was also important to me to have an instance that didn’t want my email address.

    • always donate to your home instance

      Couldn’t agree more. I treat this as a rule across the fediverse. Hell I spend more time on various fedi platforms than I do playing video games, so I may as well put my money where my mouth is

  • WorseDoughnut 🍩
    link
    fedilink
    English
    8
    edit-2
    10 months ago

    I initially went with Kbin and Beehaw since it was clear that kbin and lemmy were going to mostly diverge on key features from the start. At the time, Beehaw was getting a ton of traffic thanks to the join-lemmy homepage placing them at the top of the suggested instances list, so there was no real criteria that went into my choice other than that.

    Eventually deleted my Beehaw account though, after the admins made it clear they were not prepared for the influx and were being rather dramatic about their defederation choices as a result. It left a bad taste in my mouth, and while I understand their stance was “safe place first, popular site second” it just didn’t vibe with what I expected from an open reddit alternative.

    Moved to VLemmy after that, and we all know how that went, but my rationale was that it was a growing but moderately small instance.

    Afterwards I made 2 new accounts: one on infosec.pub and the other on lemdro.id.

    At this point I’m mostly sticking with the Lemdro.id account, since they seem to be offering some very friendly support via their matrix space, and they have some apparently unique changes to backend to make it a very fast and easy to scale instance.

    My kbin.social and infosec.pub accounts are mostly just alts gathering dust as a result.

    • @Blaze@sopuli.xyzOP
      link
      fedilink
      410 months ago

      Interesting, thanks for your feedback.

      they have some apparently unique changes to backend to make it a very fast and easy to scale instance.

      Shouldn’t that be merged into the Lemmy platform at some? It would probably benefit everyone

      • WorseDoughnut 🍩
        link
        fedilink
        English
        2
        edit-2
        10 months ago

        I don’t know enough about the specifics to say whether or not it’s something that would be useful upstream. It’s possible that it’s just their unique combination of software & hardware that makes it work the way it does.

        I’m sure someone in their Matrix server could offer more insight.

  • @BaconIsAVeg@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    English
    810 months ago

    I started on lemmy.world, right up until their “wait and see” approach to Meta/Threads, which is when I moved to lemmy.ml.

    Not going to lie though, it also seems like most of the low-quality memes/shit posts come from lemmy.world, so I don’t feel like I’m missing out on much.

  • Rottcodd
    link
    fedilink
    8
    edit-2
    10 months ago

    A probably too long post about an entirely different way of viewing things:

    I have accounts at… I guess about eight instances. I didn’t see any reason to pick one, so I just signed up for everything that looked interesting and promising.

    I expected to eventually settle on one, but as it turns out, I actually like having multiple accounts. I have four that I rotate between at the moment. Oh, and with the same username on each, though I still haven’t decided if that’s a good idea or not.

    First, I have a kbin account and multiple lemmy accounts. Even though lemmy has more users, I much prefer kbin just as far as the software goes - it’s just a better UI. And Ernest is awesome.

    Beyond that though, each instance is a different experience, since the federated communities on each one are different, depending on what other instances they’re federated with and which communities from which instances people have subscribed to. And I’ve amplified that by having different sets of subscriptions on different instances.

    Kbin.social has a good mix of content but without most of the botfarm instances. I like that. That’s where I do virtually all of my serious posting.

    Lemmy.world (when it’s up) has a wide range of content, but too much of it, even not counting the bots, is too shallow IMO. It feels too much like Reddit for my tastes. It is the best one to check in on for the most popular topics though, and it’s where I’m most likely to be subscribed to communities for memes, humor, drama, pictures - all that sort of junk.

    Lemmy.one actually feels like what it is - an instance that demands that users behave themselves. It’s nice when I want to just unwind, because it’s already the case that problematic instances are defederated, and I have a limited set of feel good subs there. I almost never post from there though, since I don’t trust myself to behave.

    Lemmy.ninja is my favorite. It’s just quirky little instance with terrific admins and an amusing aesthetic. It’s little though - 120 users last I heard. That shows in its all, which is fairly limited, presumably just because few people means few subscriptions so few federated communities. That’s fine though - it’s a selection that matches my interests fairly well. And ninjas are cool.

    And I’m still on the lookout for a serious, scholarly sort of instance - somewhere that will be a comfortable home for subs to philosophy communities and the like.