“b-but bears are actually dangerous!” Shut the hell up.

  • Lulzagna@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    55
    arrow-down
    28
    ·
    edit-2
    6 months ago

    So if men are statistically safer than bears and women’s safety is most important, then you agree “bear” is the incorrect choice?

    I’m just trying to figure out all these incoherent memes.

    • Track_Shovel@slrpnk.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      15
      arrow-down
      14
      ·
      6 months ago

      Do you have those stats? I would love to actually see a comparison, instead of a slap-fight

      • TigrisMorte@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        24
        arrow-down
        11
        ·
        6 months ago

        Very few people someone gets near enough to be grabbed by want to rape them. Nearly every bear someone gets near enough to be grabbed by wants to kill them. A large number of women feel it is better to be killed by a bear than live with their irrational fear that every man they get near shall rape them. The fear not being rational is irrelevant as the fear is based upon a more than likely chance, approx. 25% is reported, that at some point the fear was justified and not irrational. However those numbers are screwy as folks that get raped are more likely to get raped again.

        I’d give percentage chances of each occurring, (the National Park Service estimates the odds of being attacked by a bear are about one in 2.1 million​.), but the media seems to only report percentage of gender raped not chance of rape.

          • TigrisMorte@kbin.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            6 months ago

            Please show where I stated anything of the desires of the bear. I’m hinging nothing on proximity. You are simply assuming things I did not state. I covered that it wasn’t a risk assessment. Only thing bogged down is so bogged with your assumptions.

        • atomicorange@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          11
          arrow-down
          13
          ·
          6 months ago

          What percentage of women do you suppose have had a man threaten to rape or kill them? Get violently angry at them? Sexually assault them or a friend? I reckon it’s near 100%.

          The fear isn’t that all men will assault them, it’s that any man might. It’s not irrational, it’s based on experience. There are men in this thread arguing that women should be arming themselves to stay safe, right alongside men arguing that fear is irrational.

          Fuck the men with hurt feelings. Your fellow men have proved themselves dangerous, time and again. Women will treat you like dangerous predators until men as a group start policing their own and building a world where women don’t have reason to fear.

              • TigrisMorte@kbin.social
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                3
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                6 months ago

                I’d happily discussed what I posted. I have no interest in discussing your imaginary post which you chose to address rather than my post. I also have no interest in discussing anything with someone that wishes to pretend I posted anything other than I did.

                • atomicorange@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  6 months ago

                  What aspect of your post are you interested in discussing? I found your assertion that the fear was irrational interesting, but if that’s off-limits we can talk about some other part…

                  • TigrisMorte@kbin.social
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    arrow-down
                    2
                    ·
                    6 months ago

                    The post was in response to someone asking, “Do you have those stats?”
                    My post referenced probability multiple times.
                    That is the last of the clues I’m going to give. Perhaps try reading it again and looking up the words you are unsure of. Then instead of attempting to derail by arguing your imaginary discussion, consider that what was posted is exactly what was meant, no more, no less. You’ll eventually figure it out.
                    Nothing is off limits. I simply refuse to play your game of pretending I said something you wish to be angry about.

        • Track_Shovel@slrpnk.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          8
          arrow-down
          12
          ·
          6 months ago

          Bruh, it’s not even about rape. A dude negatively impacting a woman’s physical or emotional well being compromises their safety.

          The odds you mentioned of bear attacks seem a lot lower than the odds of a woman having to deal with shit from men. I say this as a man who worked in the boreal for 10 years and with a pile of construction folks (men and women).

      • Lulzagna@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        16
        arrow-down
        8
        ·
        6 months ago

        You’re asking for statistics in bad faith of the argument. Seems like you’re the one slap-fighting here - if you wanted to actually engage in logical discourse, you’d have presented statistics yourself, which you have not.

        There’s obviously no statistics on the rate of how many bear-human and male-female interactions happen. One rarely happens, the other happens billions of times per day. We can prove that bears are more aggressive and dangerous than humans though.

        In one black bear study 88% of fatal attacks were a result of the bear being the aggressor. Note that black bears are known to be timid of humans, and notoriously not aggressive.

        So, statistically even the more timid bear species are wildly more aggressive to humans than humans to bears. Unless you have data that proves that men are more aggressive to women than bears are to humans, this is the closest we get to proving men are statistically safer than bears.

        • WldFyre@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          6
          ·
          6 months ago

          In one black bear study 88% of fatal attacks were a result of the bear being the aggressor.

          Lmfao what a useless fact.

          How many rapes or instances of physical assault on a woman were a result of the man being the aggressor?

            • WldFyre@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              5
              ·
              6 months ago

              I would love to know how you went from percentages, which you quoted and I replied to, to overall numbers. You realize that’s not what you were talking about, right?

        • theneverfox@pawb.social
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          6 months ago

          I’d specify further - a solo man/bear interaction with a woman in a remote location

          I don’t want cubs or captivity involved, and no bystanders. It might be more fair to make it strangers only too… That data is going to be a lot harder to quantify through

      • Lulzagna@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        20
        arrow-down
        6
        ·
        6 months ago

        You’re just discarding every opinion as “toxic masculinity” which is actually worse than engaging in logical discourse.

        I’ll do everything in my power to empower women and make them feel safe. This thought experiment has unfortunately been detrimental and used to attack men.

        “It’s not you” - yes, and nothing I said made it about me at all. See how fast you went on the offense on a completely neutral comment? You should listen to your own advice and listen the points being made equally as much as you’re lobbying others to do.

      • GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        6 months ago

        I read some of these, more to get insight into how other people think, but often I come to the conclusion that there is very little I can do to help and that people who behave that way aren’t people I want to help. My ego is just fine, thanks, but blind hostility isn’t something I welcome into my life.

      • Track_Shovel@slrpnk.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        8
        arrow-down
        22
        ·
        6 months ago

        i am not like that

        Congrats, you pass the bare minimum for human decency, dudes. Accept that part and you won’t spend time having to ‘defend’ yourself.

        I’m not like that, so I don’t need to worry about it, type of thinking

    • Bonehead@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      23
      arrow-down
      44
      ·
      6 months ago

      Here’s the thing…if you get upset that a random woman that you don’t know would take the hyperbolic position that they would rather be in the same room as a bear than with you, you’re likely the exact type of man that these memes are talking about. They are meant to expose fragile egos that don’t understand how intimidating they are to women. They know how dangerous a bear is. They don’t know how dangerous you are. That’s the point…

      • KombatWombat@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        47
        arrow-down
        8
        ·
        6 months ago

        Here’s the thing…if you get upset that a random woman that you don’t know would take the hyperbolic position that they would rather be in the same room as a bear than with you, you’re likely the exact type of man that these memes are talking about.

        What the heck? Expressing resentment at the implication that you are more threatening than a bear based solely on gender is evidence that you are, in fact, more threatening than a bear? How does that follow? You don’t need to have a fragile ego to recognize the unfairness of it.

        They know how dangerous a bear is.

        If they would rather be alone with a bear than a random stranger of any gender I’m going to say they don’t.

        The original post was a bad-faith engagement farm that became much more popular than it ever should have been. It ended up bringing up a bit of good discussion and a lot of insane takes.

        • Bonehead@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          11
          arrow-down
          25
          ·
          6 months ago

          Once again, it’s a hyperbolic statement. They don’t really want to be alone with a bear. They are merely pointing out that they trust you less than a bear. A bear would simply kill them. What a man could do to them is far worse than anything a bear could do. If you can’t understand that, that’s the entire problem.