Khelif and another boxer, featherweight Lin Yu-Ting of Chinese Taipei, have been fighting under a cloud in France after the Algerian’s opening victory over Angela Carini, who quit after 46 seconds.
Imagine a corrupt state really wants gold. Why wouldn’t they register a whole batch of males as female (or duplicate register as both sexes) wait 20 years then clean up the women’s events?
so, the heart of your argument itself is sexist. Your argument is, basically, that a man is better than a woman at sports, just because he’s a man.
Athletes at this level are insanely talented and fit. Some are even genetic anomalies, which explain why they can be so good at their sport. Simone biles is really small, which is why she’s so good at flipping.
A female boxer at this level would decimate a male boxer who isn’t genetically selected for and who hasn’t trained his whole life to get to that level. Being male doesn’t make one good at sports.
On the scale youre talking about, the government would be complicit in widescale corruption to rig a single event in an event where there’s no money involved for the winner, requiring several hundred people to be the athletes who might be good enough to go to the event, boatloads of money to train them, and even then, they might get one through the event if the athlete isn’t injured. All for what reward? A single relatively worthless gold medal?
Your argument is, basically, that a man is better than a woman at sports, just because he’s a man.
No. Women should always have the option to compete against men, (and prove they are better), if they chose to. But just look at world records if you need concrete proof that males have an advantage.
Many sports there is no physical advantage and some (e.g. climbing) women have the advantage.
On the scale youre talking about, the government would be complicit in widescale corruption to rig a single event in an event where there’s no money involved for the winner,
Not a single event, this could be done for multiple events, even without the athlete’s knowledge. For the first decade only a few record keepers need to be in the conspiracy.
All for what reward? A single relatively worthless gold medal?
The person you are responding seems uninformed on the topic of Imane and in spreading misinform.
However, Russia does have a sordid history messing with international sports. Look up all the scandals in figure skating and also last year Olympics. I’m not sure why they do it. I think it has to do with projecting power on the world stage.
We should expect Rules and regulations regarding a cis woman. The Olympic committee should either allow them as is or lay out specific rules.
Decisions cannot be adhoc.
Except she was born a woman, raised as a girl and is a woman according to her passport from a country where being trans is illegal. So your argument is moot.
This the Olympics. What they do in their country is their problem.
If trans was illegal in that country why would they want to highlight that issue by selecting that athlete. Makes no sense.
I think you might have come full circle here. Being trans is her country is illegal. Why would such a country send a trans athlete? Because she isn’t trans.
You aren’t talking about trans athletes, you’re talking about a woman who won a sport, and was demonized for being trans, and she isn’t even trans. The right wing had to make this shit up just so they would have a boogie man to be scared of.
You stated that this person was intersex, and that was a valid reason for her disqualification up and down this thread, before the mods intervened of course.
Continuing to believe in disproven theories, or concepts without imperical evidence, is clearly a logical falicy at best, or you are intentionally spreading misinformation because you are a Russian bot at worst.
Give the above assertions, yes, mental health, intelligence, and a prescription of “touching grass” at a minimum. Are you an athlete? Do you compete at an Olympic level? No? Then how does that impact you in any way shape or form? Did you ever watch the Olympics to have any kind of investment? Honestly that’s all a little weird.
What makes you think these decisions were “ad hoc?”
What do you think ad hoc means? And what part of “we checked out this athelete and she met all of our criteria to compete in womans’ boxing” don’t you get?
What failing do you think the IOC commited in allowing a cis woman to compete in womens’ boxing?
Injecting testosterone is considered doping. So whatever their gender is, it’s not allowed. This makes trans people by default not eligible, regardless of what gender they’re playing as.
Whatever that decision is the Olympic committee should expand rules and regulations to cover edge cases.
Decisions shouldn’t be adhoc.
It’s not like we didn’t know about hunan genetic makeup before this Olympics.
Injecting performance enhancing substances like testosterone is not allowed. So the rule is already there. The reason for injecting them is irrelevant and not part of the rule. If we can simply use a counter argument to nullify a rule that doesn’t really make it a rule anymore. We should however add possible edge cases in the future, but that doesn’t mean that we should be using opinions in current rulings before finding something that suits everybody.
Keep in mind that I’m not claiming anything about Imane Khelif.
It seems that, going forward, a stricter definition and (private and respectful) testing of cis categorisation would reduce the pain and suffering (from armchair commentators like ourselves) of all future competitors at top levels of womens sports.
We have regulations for just about anything but not gender in Olympics?
Olympic committee should put forward specific classification rules for woman and man in a binary sporting event.
It’s a Olympic committee problem not an athlete problem. Don’t let them sweep this issue under the rug.
Except even if they had regulations it would not have changed anything since she is a ciswoman
Imagine a corrupt state really wants gold. Why wouldn’t they register a whole batch of males as female (or duplicate register as both sexes) wait 20 years then clean up the women’s events?
so, the heart of your argument itself is sexist. Your argument is, basically, that a man is better than a woman at sports, just because he’s a man. Athletes at this level are insanely talented and fit. Some are even genetic anomalies, which explain why they can be so good at their sport. Simone biles is really small, which is why she’s so good at flipping.
A female boxer at this level would decimate a male boxer who isn’t genetically selected for and who hasn’t trained his whole life to get to that level. Being male doesn’t make one good at sports.
On the scale youre talking about, the government would be complicit in widescale corruption to rig a single event in an event where there’s no money involved for the winner, requiring several hundred people to be the athletes who might be good enough to go to the event, boatloads of money to train them, and even then, they might get one through the event if the athlete isn’t injured. All for what reward? A single relatively worthless gold medal?
No. Women should always have the option to compete against men, (and prove they are better), if they chose to. But just look at world records if you need concrete proof that males have an advantage.
Many sports there is no physical advantage and some (e.g. climbing) women have the advantage.
Not a single event, this could be done for multiple events, even without the athlete’s knowledge. For the first decade only a few record keepers need to be in the conspiracy.
Why? You should ask cold war Russia.
What exactly do you think the Soviet Union achieved by winning a bunch of medals?
The person you are responding seems uninformed on the topic of Imane and in spreading misinform.
However, Russia does have a sordid history messing with international sports. Look up all the scandals in figure skating and also last year Olympics. I’m not sure why they do it. I think it has to do with projecting power on the world stage.
I’m steering clear of the topic of Imane.
No you aren’t. You’re arguing about trans women athletes competing in the Olympics against cis women in a thread specifically about Imane.
What the the absolute fuck are you talking about? This is some deranged paranoid nonsense.
Search the soviet unions athletic history for examples.
We should expect Rules and regulations regarding a cis woman. The Olympic committee should either allow them as is or lay out specific rules. Decisions cannot be adhoc.
You realize that she’s a cis woman, right? Right?
Or did you take the word from people on YouTube who talk about everything in a certain way?
Except she was born a woman, raised as a girl and is a woman according to her passport from a country where being trans is illegal. So your argument is moot.
This the Olympics. What they do in their country is their problem. If trans was illegal in that country why would they want to highlight that issue by selecting that athlete. Makes no sense.
Because she’s not trans
Right. I was replying to a comment about trans athletes.
I think you might have come full circle here. Being trans is her country is illegal. Why would such a country send a trans athlete? Because she isn’t trans.
You aren’t talking about trans athletes, you’re talking about a woman who won a sport, and was demonized for being trans, and she isn’t even trans. The right wing had to make this shit up just so they would have a boogie man to be scared of.
She isn’t trans, what part of this are you having trouble with?
Hmmm maybe she’s not trans? Hmm?
She’s a cis woman.
Isn’t a little weird to focus on someone else’s genitals?
Like really weird? Creepy even? Are you weird too?
We already have regulations about gender in the Olympics. They’re discriminatory against transgender and intersex athletes, and disproportionately affect female athletes of color.
9If that wiki page is correct, then chromosome testing should be done. Was the testing done? What were the results? If it was not done, then why not?
How is women fighting women in a sport discriminatory against women?
I’m starting to think that you need some testing…
feeling is mutual.
Feelings are great, let me know when you can think critically instead of regurgitate nonsense and repeat disproven or intentional vagueries.
So was it critical thinking that made you say that I needed testing? Obviously critical thinking is not your forte.
Are you against regulations? That’s fine. I happen to support regulations.
What “disproven or intentional vagueries” have I said?
You stated that this person was intersex, and that was a valid reason for her disqualification up and down this thread, before the mods intervened of course.
Continuing to believe in disproven theories, or concepts without imperical evidence, is clearly a logical falicy at best, or you are intentionally spreading misinformation because you are a Russian bot at worst.
Give the above assertions, yes, mental health, intelligence, and a prescription of “touching grass” at a minimum. Are you an athlete? Do you compete at an Olympic level? No? Then how does that impact you in any way shape or form? Did you ever watch the Olympics to have any kind of investment? Honestly that’s all a little weird.
Chromosome testing is still discrimination against intersex athletes.
Winding back to my first post. The Olympic committee has to decide. Decisions shouldn’t be adhoc.
Athletes spend time and effort. They shouldn’t have to prepare for a competition where they will be expelled.
What makes you think these decisions were “ad hoc?”
What do you think ad hoc means? And what part of “we checked out this athelete and she met all of our criteria to compete in womans’ boxing” don’t you get?
What failing do you think the IOC commited in allowing a cis woman to compete in womens’ boxing?
Why should testing be done over some allegation by an organization that’s not recognized by the IOC?
What issue is that exactly?
Really living up to your name.
Injecting testosterone is considered doping. So whatever their gender is, it’s not allowed. This makes trans people by default not eligible, regardless of what gender they’re playing as.
Have a look at this list: https://www.antidopingdatabase.com/facts/prohibited-list
My personal opinion is that trans people should just get their own part of the Olympics. Otherwise there is absolutely no way to keep it fair.
Whatever that decision is the Olympic committee should expand rules and regulations to cover edge cases. Decisions shouldn’t be adhoc. It’s not like we didn’t know about hunan genetic makeup before this Olympics.
Genitals genitals show me your genitals!
Injecting performance enhancing substances like testosterone is not allowed. So the rule is already there. The reason for injecting them is irrelevant and not part of the rule. If we can simply use a counter argument to nullify a rule that doesn’t really make it a rule anymore. We should however add possible edge cases in the future, but that doesn’t mean that we should be using opinions in current rulings before finding something that suits everybody.
Keep in mind that I’m not claiming anything about Imane Khelif.
Make it 2 classes, open and restricted.
Clear rules on who is allowed in the restricted class.
Edit People down voting, do you not want a restricted class?
When it’s a cis woman you’re worried about against other cis women? No? I’m starting to think that we should have civics tests to use the Internet…
It seems that, going forward, a stricter definition and (private and respectful) testing of cis categorisation would reduce the pain and suffering (from armchair commentators like ourselves) of all future competitors at top levels of womens sports.
Umm is the person in the correct weight class for this event? Yes. Okay next!
For the “men’s” event, yes. Weight is the only restriction. Women should be able to fight in the men’s event if they qualify.
For the women’s classification there must be a clear line drawn somewhere between “has given birth” and “changed their name to Sue”.
(I have no preference exactly where that line is drawn)
Whatever the decision is the Olympic committee should make it and not run away from contested issues.
What is contested about a cis woman boxer boxing cis women?