Just look at the speed that the RV was going! The driver was given a $500 ticket for almost killing 30 cyclists. Insane that they’re even allowed to drive after that.
I hate the passive way headlines are written when it comes to crashes involving bikes. “Tossed” is such a light word for what happened. “Passing RV” as if it wasn’t the cause of it all and just happened to be there
That driver should never be allowed on the road again. There’s no excuse.
Glad the guy is alive.
At the very least, Arizona and many other states should require a separate license and training to operate an RV that size.
And yeah, regardless of vehicle, it was an incredibly stupid (and illegal) decision to pass that closely.
BTW, AZs 3 ft passing law limits civil penalties to $500 if serious injury is causes, $1000 if death.
Dont know if the driver could be found negligent in a civil lawsuit?
That’s an incredibly stupid law. Why have a fine at all if it’s just $500-1000? If you kill someone with your car and it’s your fault, your license should be suspended.
Eh, that’s a jailable crime where I’m from ffs
Wouldn’t that depend on motive? Accidentally killing someone usually doesn’t result in jail time unless it reaches the level of gross negligence (i.e. you’re looking at your phone or something when you hit a pedestrian). If you kill someone intentionally, you’re absolutely looking at jail time because that’s murder.
Well, not being able to properly control multiple tons of machinery on a public road can be considered gross negligence.
It could, depending on the merits of the case. In the case of this article, I do think it rises to that standard, but that’s not true of all accidents involving motor vehicles. That’s my point.
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But that would require dedicated bike lanes and those cost money! https://youtu.be/ej7dfPL7Kho?si=r3YCbRWcQkgPINiO
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It’s not a car lane, it’s a road lane, and the maximum speed limit is 45mph. Bicycles have just as much right to road lanes as cars in most cases.
If someone is anxious driving 45mph next to people riding 15-25mph, perhaps they should slow down or move over until they no longer feel anxious.
So we should raise our pitchforks at the everyday normal people who were riding totally legally along the right side of the lane, not more than two abreast, not holding up more than 5 vehicles, when a lunatic in a >5 ton RV decided it would be fine to pass with less than a mirrors width of space at 45 mph?
I’d get screamed at about getting on the sidewalk, where it is illegal to ride your bike, by folks with that exact opinion.
💀
Taking this comment at face value, I would absolutely agree.
“The cycling group has a GoFundMe to help pay for the medical bills of the cyclists injured in the crash. You can find that link here.”
Damn that’s kind of crazy that this is even a thing.
You must not be familiar with the medical system in the US. They’re gonna be in the hole thousands of dollars just for getting looked at. Considering the remoteness of the accident, their ambulance ride will be incredibly expensive. In this case, the RV driver’s insurance should be on the hook, but you know they’ll do everything they can to pay as little as possible.
but also a reminder if you’re ever in this situation- as hard as it may be - you can fight. I know if you’re injured and sick and frightened it can be hard- but there are ways to reduce, ameliorate, cancel this debt.
a quick Google search gives me loads of resources to start - including checking all EOBs and CPTs, calling the provider customer service, calling your insurance, speaking to their supervisors, speaking to their managers, escalating beyond that, fili ng an appeal with the provider, an appeal with the insurance company, with the patient advocate, with the insurance commission, and then you have legal recourse…
Honestly as a driver and a casual bicyclist, I absolutely hate what America calls “bike lanes”.
Yup, they’re often more dangerous than riding in a regular car lane.
At this point I’ve almost given up. 500$ fine is absolutely insane. Here in Germany a taxi driver was given a fine for killing a cyclist with his door (not deliberately of course!).
Why people even use guns anymore, when you can just kill them with a vehicle. If you fail, you just try again later. Insane
This was obviously an accident. The report says the driver stopped and cooperated with police.
Just an unfortunate accident. Car accidents should never happen, obviously, but being on the road is inherently fucking dangerous.
My father was killed in a car crash that he didn’t cause, my friends older brother was killed on his bike on the side of the road when he got hit by a passing car, I’ve been in about 6 small car accidents myself.
I have two friends who have died on motorcycles, and 3 more who have had bad accidents and are lucky to still be alive.
You take your life in your hands when you use a roadway in any vehicle, but especially in a vehicle that leaves you so unprotected.
Very unfortunate and I’m glad everyone is okay.
An accident assumes no one was at fault. The driver broke at least one law by driving too close to a cyclist, it was not an accident.
The reason you take your life in to your hands when you go out of your house is because people flippantly break the law while driving. True accidents are uncommon.
I dont think you understand the word ‘accident’.
In aviation, any unintended collision is considered an accident, even if one of the pilots crashed the plane suicidally.
Yeah, same thing as motorists in American journalism.
A lot of cycling activists seem to think that “accident” implies no-fault, inaction, and helplessness, and that forcing journalists to reword their articles will somehow make things better. That’s a flawed approach.
Journalists aren’t in the business of assigning blame in their coverage. Unless one a court or an official investigator has made a ruling, doing so would open them up to libel lawsuits. Advocating for more vivid wording is pointless. That’s not how journalism works, nor is it how linguistics works.
Commercial aviation is now the safest form of transportation by far, having made tremendous improvements over the years thanks to implementing recommendations from accident investigations like the one I cited. The same can be done for cycling. Believing that language change is a prerequisite to improvements in safety is a harmful mindset. It would be better to redirect that energy where it belongs: getting the lawmakers and infrastructure planners to take action to reduce the accident rate.
The word “collision” is available, and is often used. I’m not interested in whether or not using less biased language relates to safety, that is not the only concern.
That’s not what an accident is. Someone is almost always at fault. But that doesn’t mean it’s intentional.
That’s what an accident is, unintentional
It doesn’t matter if they didn’t try to hit the cyclists, what matters is that they broke a law while doing so. If you cannot control your vehicle well enough to stay within the law, you should have your driver’s license suspended until the state is confident that you are able to. Driving is a privilege, and privileges should be revoked if you violate the rules associated with that privilege.
So no, I’m not willing to just accept a $500 fine, the driver at least needs to go to driving school to learn the law, because apparently they don’t respect the law enough to follow it.
You think you should lose your license for getting into an accident?
That’s pretty extreme, and would likely tank businesses almsot everywhere. How many people do you think have never been in a cad accident? Not very many
That depends on the severity of the negligence in the accident. But when there’s a huge power imbalance like a car and a bicycle or a pedestrian, I absolutely think the penalties should be more severe than between two vehicles.
If you cause an accident, you should absolutely go to traffic school. Full stop. If you exceed some level of negligence, you should have your license suspended. And I think driving an RV at 45mph into a bunch of cyclists qualifies for license suspension, at least for a few months to really drive home the gravity of the mistake.
I have never been in an accident in >15 years of driving, so I’m obviously a bit biased here. But my opinion is that if you cannot drive safely, your driving privileges should be revoked until you prove you can drive safely.
Why isn’t the bike the one who caused the accident? He was in the roadway, wasn’t to the side at all. They weren’t riding in single file, they were riding across each other.
Take some responsibility for your own safety too. You know there are cars using the road, you shouldn’t assume that they will see you. Stay safe
I absolutely think you should loose your license for being responsible for a crash.
Maybe that means not many people should be driving. That would explain tens of thousands of Americans that die in car crashes each year.
I think businesses would be fine now that we have a superior form of personal transportation: the ebike
It all depends on the circumstances. Driving down the road, and glancing away for a minute and not seeing a bicycle driving on the road until a second before you hit them isn’t really negligent.
That’s why it’s an accident. The driver was within the lines of the roadway, the bicycle wasn’t on the shoulder, and it looks like the driver did not see the bicycle.
That’s called an accident. If you’re negligent for any reason, sure punish the driver. But this doesn’t look at all like that kind of situation here.
I know this crowd is very pro bikes and doesn’t think cars should exist, but you guys are the extreme
Drunk drivers who get into “accidents” get their licences revoked.
It’s not extreme, its logical.
Was this guy drunk?
I don’t know, man. I sort of see where you’re going, but killing someone unintentionally while drunk driving would fall under the accident umbrella using your definition. I think there’s more than just intent at play.
It’d be an accident if the RV suffered a mechanical breakdown, causing the collision. Unintentionally colliding with the bicycle would be negligent/reckless operation.
That’s what an accident is, unintentional
Even if you frame it like that, there’s a massive difference between gross negligence and “oops, that happened”.
This driver was negligent at the very least, and I only say that because there’s no way of knowing if they intended to just “nudge” the cyclist or not.
Edit: spelling
I agree that hitting the cyclist looks unintentional. And very sorry to hear that so many folks in your life have been taken by vehicle accidents.
When you say that this is, “just an unfortunate accident”, it sounds like a defense of the RV drivers poor decision-making that led to very serious injuries of others, hence the downvote.
He was saying it wasn’t an intentional attack.
He wasn’t saying the RV driver wasn’t responsible.
I don’t get how people drive while apparently looking only so far down the road as their hood ornament. There was nobody coming towards him in the opposite lane, to pull over and give that group a large berth was the easiest thing in the world. Even driving a pickup, I feel bad passing a cyclist at highway speeds for the bow wave of wind the truck will make, because I’ve been in his shoes trying to keep a bike straight when a truck goes by.
Poor bastard got hurt, but he got lucky too.
to pull over and give that group a large berth was the easiest thing in the world.
It’s always the easiest thing in the world for a driver to simply move over a few feet while they pass, yet far too many don’t. Some will even narrow the gap on purpose (get a rear camera and be SHOCKED at how often this happens).
But hitting someone in a **group **of riders is like being legally blind and behind the wheel.
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I couldn’t work out what the fuck a Flagstaff cyclist was and I was picturing some daft cunt with a massive flagpole on his bike. No wonder he got knocked off lol
