It’s weird that this issue only comes up when it comes to defend nazi shit and not with other things.
I’ll give you a specific example: I posted this on r/ShowerThoughts: “Incest is like pissing in your gene pool”.
I think it’s pretty good, but mods deleted my post because it goes against community guidelines.
If I got into an argument with the mods and got banned from r/ShowerThoughts, I wouldn’t be going around crying about “freedom of speech”, because it’s dumb, and communities have rules.
These arguments are always about normalizing nazi shit. Fuck that.
The difference here is that you made a post against community guidelines. Where as in this case the guy seems to have been banned for wrong think.
Man, it’s such a shitty hill to die on.
When I posted, there was no specific guidance on “incest jokes” at r/Showerthoughts that I am aware of.
Normalizing nazi shit goes against most communities guidelines, somewhere around the general, “don’t post hateful stuff” requirements
If communities can have their own rules, they are free to ban people for hateful shit.
And yeah, Musk made a nazi salute, which at this point is a pretty objective fact (Tesla’s track record of racial harassment, EM’s track record of boosting nazi shit on X, EM renaming self as Kekius Maximus, talking about the “future of our civilization” while doing the gesture, repetition, and turning as per nazi protocol, etc etc.). The only things that are up for debate are A) why did he do it? B) Was he chemically impaired while doing it.
Hear me out. Let’s remove the politics from this equation for a second
Let’s say I stood on a podium, did pelvic thrusts and formed a V with my fingers stuck my tongue through them making circular motions with it, and when people got upset, I responded to with pussy jokes. Would you interpret my actions as an “awkward gesture”? You could, but people would consider you either a perv, or a troll. Same applies here.
I don’t care. Read my full comment history if you want, you’ll find I’m quite clearly a left winger.
I really don’t know what my comment history has to do with my ability to defend freedom of speech.
I couldn’t care less if people want to take issue with my opinions, I only ask that it’s kept civil and the debate is kept relevant to the subject, I’m not interested in personal attacks.
I only ask that it’s kept civil and the debate is kept relevant to the subject
The general societal norm is that nazi shit isn’t considered civil and EM’s doubling down with nazi jokes eliminates the “awkward gesture” defense. So you are expecting civility from others while defending something you claim to consider hateful too.
Your priorities are extremely misplaced when this happens concurrently with the US federal government undergoing “ideological review” (their words).
I’m getting really tired of self-claimed “left wingers” advancing the alt-right agenda. You’re either a useful idiot, or dishonest.
Possibly defending Nazis was against community guidelines…? Pretty doublespeak of you to call one example “against guidelines” and the other “wrong think” and I’m sure I know why you do it.
At the end of the day, until Musk comes out and says, “it was a Nazi salute and I’m a Nazi”, it will be up to opinion and everyone has a right to share their opinion.
and I’m sure I know why you do it.
I really don’t appreciate the insinuation but the least you could do is grow a pair, come out and say it.
yup. A good intellectual test would be asking whether people would draw the same conclusion on intent about the gesture if:
A) it were sexual coming from a person with a history of sexually harassing comments who provides a sexual joke for explanation
B) it were a direct insult (like middle finger) from a person with a history of verbally abusive comments, who provides a fuckyou joke for explanation.
People usually have very little difficulty judging the intent in those situations.
Thus my point that freedom of speech is not a freedom to lie or a freedom to spread hate or encourage violence (this is a general point, I am not referring to your views in particular).
Honestly, that’s very insulting and I don’t appreciate the insinuation. I know very well what the freedom of speech entails and I donate monthly to amnesty international.
Well if this person truly believes it wasn’t a Nazi salute, then he’s not lying.
I believe ghosts aren’t real, but that doesn’t mean I think anyone that has seen a ghost is lying, I truly believe that they think they saw a ghost.
There’s a huge difference between an objective truth and a widely agreed upon opinion.
It’s weird that this issue only comes up when it comes to defend nazi shit and not with other things. I’ll give you a specific example: I posted this on r/ShowerThoughts: “Incest is like pissing in your gene pool”. I think it’s pretty good, but mods deleted my post because it goes against community guidelines. If I got into an argument with the mods and got banned from r/ShowerThoughts, I wouldn’t be going around crying about “freedom of speech”, because it’s dumb, and communities have rules.
These arguments are always about normalizing nazi shit. Fuck that.
The difference here is that you made a post against community guidelines. Where as in this case the guy seems to have been banned for wrong think.
I’m not arguing that communities can’t have their own rules.
If you accept that communities can have their own rules, then the rule here is “no defending Nazis”.
Man, it’s such a shitty hill to die on.
Hear me out. Let’s remove the politics from this equation for a second
Let’s say I stood on a podium, did pelvic thrusts and formed a V with my fingers stuck my tongue through them making circular motions with it, and when people got upset, I responded to with pussy jokes. Would you interpret my actions as an “awkward gesture”? You could, but people would consider you either a perv, or a troll. Same applies here.
So yeah, stop normalizing nazi shit.
People here seem to be confused between me endorsing “Nazi shit”, which I am not, and me backing the freedom of speech.
I don’t know why this is such a hard concept to grasp.
FYI, your comment history is public, so people have more context for your posts here than you assume.
I don’t care. Read my full comment history if you want, you’ll find I’m quite clearly a left winger.
I really don’t know what my comment history has to do with my ability to defend freedom of speech.
I couldn’t care less if people want to take issue with my opinions, I only ask that it’s kept civil and the debate is kept relevant to the subject, I’m not interested in personal attacks.
I’m getting really tired of self-claimed “left wingers” advancing the alt-right agenda. You’re either a useful idiot, or dishonest.
Possibly defending Nazis was against community guidelines…? Pretty doublespeak of you to call one example “against guidelines” and the other “wrong think” and I’m sure I know why you do it.
We’re back to opinion Vs fact, again!
At the end of the day, until Musk comes out and says, “it was a Nazi salute and I’m a Nazi”, it will be up to opinion and everyone has a right to share their opinion.
I really don’t appreciate the insinuation but the least you could do is grow a pair, come out and say it.
You’re a very good little reminder that no one should take the ability to regurgitate alt-righticisms for intellect.
yup. A good intellectual test would be asking whether people would draw the same conclusion on intent about the gesture if:
A) it were sexual coming from a person with a history of sexually harassing comments who provides a sexual joke for explanation B) it were a direct insult (like middle finger) from a person with a history of verbally abusive comments, who provides a fuckyou joke for explanation.
People usually have very little difficulty judging the intent in those situations.
If endorsing the freedom of speech makes you alt-right, then I guess I’m alt-right.
Agreed, that makes him deluded instead. Not many people however are stupid enough to be able to analyse Musk salute and belive it wasn’t a nazi one.
I’m not getting in to the Musk debate, I’m quite frankly bored of it, just let me know if he does it again.
I’m only here to defend freedom of speech.
Ensure you understand it first:
‘Freedom of speech is the right to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, by any means.’
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/free-speech-freedom-expression-human-right
Thus my point that freedom of speech is not a freedom to lie or a freedom to spread hate or encourage violence (this is a general point, I am not referring to your views in particular).
Honestly, that’s very insulting and I don’t appreciate the insinuation. I know very well what the freedom of speech entails and I donate monthly to amnesty international.
All I would say is that you picked up a very odd example to defend the “freedom of speech”.
That’s just the thing, freedom of speech is for everyone, not only the people you like and agree with, this conversation has come full circle now.
Where is this one coming from now?
I think the prior comments provide adequate context. I’ve said everything I have to say on the issue and I’m bored now. Have a nice day.