First of all, I want to say that it’s wonderful to see all of you here, and your critical support of the nation I proudly call home. But more and more recently, especially reading through Chinese internet too, there has been a sense of overconfidence and overglorification of China. It is honestly a little worrying at times for me, because as much as I love my homeland and is proud of what we are doing, I know full and well that we are still a long way to go. I see this sentiment of China being the glorious land far away as a bastion and utopia against Western Imperialism and while there’s a lot of truth behind that sentiment, and I definitely understand why one not living in China would choose to believe this (I live in the US now and I understand your pain, fellow US comrades). I just want to remind everyone to exercise dialectal materialism on this subject and try to look at China in a less idealised way. We cannot grow to be better without recognising our mistakes. Anyways that is my little message to you all. Have a nice day!
As a Westerner, I think a lot of this sentiment comes from how far advanced China is in comparison to our own societies. I am forced to essentially step over homeless people on my way to class while China has eliminated absolute poverty. I am ostracized for studying principles of Marxist economics while China has built the most successful economy of the century based upon them. When pressed, I always acknowledge that China has a long way to go. I don’t think the work culture is sustainable, I don’t always agree with their foreign policy, and social dynamics can be reactionary. However, I would never lead with those criticisms because I’m not Chinese and I live in the most corrupt, capitalist country on earth. It’s much more important for my own community to be exposed to the juxtaposition between active Capitalism and Socialism, and for me that involves sharing China’s successes without constantly qualifying that my support is critical.
Thanks for saying this, I totally agree though it’s a bit harder for me to have such a strong stance on the topic because I don’t research China nor do I live there so my knowledge is just from visiting there often the past few decades
Can I ask what you see that’s over-glorifying or over-idealising?
For me, I see people way overestimating the quality of life in China overall, underestimating how poor the rural regions are, and underestimate how good the West has it in many areas (work/career life for highly educated/skilled workers, cost/availability of many goods and services, etc.)
There is a tendency to deem revolution as impossible in the West, and rest all hope for the future on China. Regardless of whether China is blazing the trail towards Communism or not, this is an excuse for apathy and inaction. It is a form of de-politicization.
why weren’t you more specific about the ways that china is imperfect? i agree, of course, but one can be a strong supporter of something without needing to glorify it.
One major existing problem is the labour rights of Mingong (migrant workers). I would like the explain but it has such a complicated history background as well as a changing development in recent years, it will probably take me a few hours to type a reasonably comprehensive review of it. (Let alone looking for the Eng translation for the tons of Chinese jargons involved.) The English wiki article on it is precise but way too short to gain a dialectical understanding of it.
The difficulties for foreigner to understand the downsides of Chinese development is that there are not many English articles written about them from a dialectical perspective. These issues are either unknown to the West or very often written by ill-intended liberal journalists who refuse to explain to the readers neither the historical causes of the problem nor the step-by-step reform that has been taking place.
As a Chinese myself I find it quite ironic that many foreigners in GZD have an even higher opinion of China than Chinese themselves. The average Chinese worker is likely to work more hours per week, receive a smaller wage and benefits, and have a standard of living lower than that of a similar worker in Denmark or Sweden. CPC has been very clear about improving the lives of common people but there still exists three major contradictions it has to struggle against: 1) the materially inevitable need to exploiting surplus value in order to achieve rapid capital accumulation; 2) the fact that China is situated in a capitalist world economy and it has to compete with other countries in a capitalist market; 3) the internal resistance from local vested interests, bureaucrats, the bourgeoisie, and sometimes the middle class, against properly implementing the reform directed by the central government. China is very far from a “totalitarian” monolith where everything Xi says goes. That’s why it always take time for improvement and the road is not always smooth.
Nonetheless most Chinese are hopeful about their country not because we’re already the best country in the world, but that they believe, justifiably, China will develop into a better country than any of the Western ones. In China, having a developmental, dialectical perspective makes you a leftist; believing in making static comparison with Western countries makes you a self-hating liberal. In general I just hope Westerners who over-romanticise China don’t just one day get “disillusioned” and turn their love into hate overnight like how many Western leftists did in the 60s with Soviet Union.
I do not glorify China, but I’m sure it comes across that way when I am defending China and their successes against a lib. There’s just so much shit and propaganda to overcome. Of course China has its flaws, and that’s why people full all across China participate in the CPC.
We honestly need more criticism of China. China does a lot of things right, but simply handwaving the unsavory things about the Chinese government doesn’t make us better. In fact, in a few cases it makes us hypocrites (e.g. selling arms to Israel and Saudi Arabia).
And before anyone comes for me, criticism isn’t chauvanism. We can understand why China does something from their point of view and still acknowledge the harm it does.
If you aren’t Chinese, we don’t need your criticism actually.
There are things that China does that affect the entire working class worldwide. If you are a conscious member of the working class who stands for its interests, that is if you are a communist, you have every right to criticize China.
Ok. Just preface your criticism with your nationality so I don’t waste too much time reading.
Liberal IDPol on Lemmygrad. Neat!
China does indeed do things for which it deserves criticism, for instance not going far enough with its climate goals, failing to completely bust the trafficking of endangered animals and plants, allowing 996 schemes to exists, and continuing to cooperate with rogue governments like the USA, Brazil, or Israel. It is by no means a perfect country, and though its current economic situation explains some of these unsavory policies, other problems still may be caused by neglect or blatant corruption. We do need to criticise China.
However, if you live or work in China, then it is your duty to do so, much more than it is ours. It is both a lot easier and more meaningful to call the kettle black if you don’t live in the pot.
Excuse me? Rogue governments?
When you have 20% of humanity to provide for you can’t just ignore huge masses of land, some of the largest food producers(USA and Brasil), for any reason whatsoever. Especially Brazil, China buys millions and millions of tons of food from us every year, do you propose both them and us to starve and get fucked just because our current president is shit? Do you support unilateral sanctions? Because that’s what they do.
We’re seeing it with Russia - you can’t just ignore a continent-size country. Regardless of regardless.
I’m not talking sanctions, I’m talking about simply not doing horrid shit like trading arms with the IDF or supporting Bolsonaro’s quest to eliminate the rainforest
I get you, but i will say that overconfidence is just a very normal human sentiment that is difficult to control on a large scale. We have been seeing examples of this since the ancient times, several countries and empire shot themselves in the foot because they were blinded by their own feeling of superiority.
I agree, we should be careful, but on the other hand there isn’t much to do about it.
