Porn sites Pornhub, XVideos, and Stripchat face stricter requirements to verify the ages of their users after being officially designated as “Very Large Online Platforms” (VLOPs) under the European Union’s Digital Services Act (DSA).
I personally have mixed feelings, as the information collection could be used to link individuals and profile them. Possibly leading to discrimination if abused.
But I also feel that any random kid shouldn’t be able to just go to these sites and see porn freely.
Ofc, there’s always going to be those who mange to circumvent any protection put in place but it’d be much harder then just clicking a link or typing in the address.
I also feel that parents should actively monitor their kids online activities and step up a Blocklist to pro-actively prevent kids from reaching these sites to begin with.
What are your thoughts on this?
But I also feel that any random kid shouldn’t be able to just go to these sites and see porn freely.
So they will just go to another site that doesn’t have age verification and doesn’t implement any security measures instead. Big sites are required to age check people before they are allowed to upload anything, that is not the case for most of the internet.
All age verification does is aggregate personal information and make it easy target for bad actors to steal. Instead of needing to go thought 100 sites, now that information & identities will be tied to a single database.
It’s also a slippery slope, since the same adult content is available not just on dedicated adult sites, but mainstream social media. Lemmy, Mastodon, Twitter, TikTok, Twitch (just recently wanted to allow nudity). Do you really want to have your identity tied to your online activity?
Governments should not be taking on parental duties.
+1 here, friend. Spread the word.
Perhaps, but too many parents are terrible at their jobs.
Would you argue the same thing with other age restrictions, such as buying alcohol/drugs, driver’s licenses, or child labour?
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Watching porn … terrorism.
I think I’m missing a few steps here.I’m making the assumption that you’re not deliberately daft enough to conflate the two issues of “a cheeky tug looking at some low resolution grot” and “mass casualty attack planning”, but surely you must see the difference between harmful content and porn, and why measures should be taken (however easy to circumvent) to disrupt terrorism or other large-scale atrocities?
Those are crimes. I don’t think it’s a crime for a kid to look at pornography.
Fuzzy space (not that one), a lot of places it might get squished into the enabling/promoting deliqancy type rules. If you give beer/smokes to an underage kid you can be tagged for it.
On a practical level proving any of the above is near impossible, but it might get you on the local’s radar if it keeps being accused.
I do think we have it backwards in America where prime time crime drama is no problem but everyone freaks out over a butt cheek, but at the same time it’s not healthy to let little kids dig into some things unguided and before they’re ready.
What? It is not illegal for children to access pornography. It is at best illegal for people to allow children access to pornography. (Outside of countries where pornography is banned outright)
We should be charging parents if their kids are that bad.
Yep. I spent a couple years as a child in a country with country-wide blocks on some internet content. However, google images wasn’t blocked (duh.) Reddit wasn’t blocked (not that I knew the site at the time).
Only thing it changed from a user-perspective was using either shitty and seedy VPN’s or simply going to more questionable sites the authority blocklist didn’t know of yet. And I’ll be honest, I doubt that sites like xnxx (back then) are much better for a developing child than the somewhat controlled sites. There’s so many niche porn sites out there that they can’t all be blocked. You only end up blocking access to sites that are the flattest for access by minors, ironically. (To be clear, I’m not saying that it’s great that minors access that content, either)
The good old “Think of the children” argument again… This is an attack on online privacy, again. I hate it.
It is the parents responsibility to keep their kids safe. We don’t ban knives either just because a child could accidentally get hurt by one. And apart from that the regulations are not even well thought out, they will not stop a determined teenager with a lot of time on their hands.
Funny how the venn diagram of “it’s the govts job to protect my kids at all costs” and “the govt shouldn’t come near my children with a 10 foot pole because they’re brainwashers” is a perfect circle.
👍 Yep, it’s sad. I can protect them along with the help of my family, friends and community. If not, I will admit failure and live with the consequences. But it’s up to me to grow up and build skills and learn patience and responsibility, not the job of others.
Parents need to get back to parenting instead of absolving themselves of what they see as a pesky responsibility of raising the children they produce and putting their lives and impressionable minds in the hands of others, then wondering what went wrong 20-some years on and blaming everyone but themselves.
In the worst case a privacy nightmare, and in the best case useless.
“Please enter your age:”
Me, 15 years old: “Yes, I was born in 1973.”
“use this rotary phone to enter your year of birth”
That would probably actually be a decent age verification scheme
For 5 minutes
Nah there’s no kids on TikTok smart enough to figure it out and tell all the rest.
Absolute waste of tax money and resources, anyone advocating for this policy is an idiot and psychotic control freak that should never be allowed to opine on public policy.
Outdated values are driving this country back into the stone age. The body was designed to be horny as we go through teenage years. It’s nature. Rather than guide kids on the safe path, fools would forbid, outlaw, prohibit until they can’t control them after age of 18.
Here’s how this plays out… Kids are going to masturbate, regardless. They will dive deeper into the Internet into places with no restrictions and be exposed to really messed up stuff. Hey at least the parent can pat themselves on the back, right, they were good partners that did everything right by the book, even paying the kid’s therapist.
Which country would that be? This is EU related.
I don’t disagree with you otherwise. If we had a good age verification system that didn’t involve the website, only gave a boolean age check to the website, wasn’t logged at the government or any other level, I might think this was ok. But we don’t. So as soon as this starts I’ll pirate a bunch of porn.
I don’t want any company putting my identity into a database along with my sexual interests. Just consider what’s been done to the gay++ community.
It won’t work. Ever. VPN’s free and paid exist, File sharing exists, Torrents exist, AI pornography generators exist, freenet, tor, I2P all exist. There is no action a government could take that would have any true impact in this regard unless they made the use of the internet illegal, and even at that, it would create a black market in which such things could still be purchased as physical media.
All this does is allow government entities to infringe on privacy rights further by doing what they have always done - hiding behind children.
Electronic ids can provide the age verification without giving out any personal information. This is a solved problem at least for a lot of ids in the EU.
But no i still find it a stupid idea. It is the parents job to parent them.
Exactly - it’s the parents’ responsibility.
Imagine any government telling car manufacturers that they have to verify that everyone who starts their vehicles has a valid drivers license.
Don’t give them ideas, this is exactly the type of shit they want to enact
give it time. the government (us) wants to put interlock gadgets into every new car to prevent drunks from driving. driving under the influence is illegal and those that do are more likely to kill someone. so is driving without a license, and so are those drivers.
There are also circumstances where it’s legal to drive over the legal bac. If someone is having a medical emergency then it’s legal to drive them to a hospital.
It’s still illegal - however it’s a defence to prosecution to say that there was a form of emergency or other mitigating factors.
As always, the wording and mitigations are specific to the jurisdictions.
I suspect you haven’t worked with governments before.
Just because something is technically possible, it’s no guarantee that it will be the chosen mechanism for something. More likely the contract will be awarded to either the lowest possible bidder, or to a friend of a friend. Cronyism is depressingly common at all levels.
I suspect you haven’t worked with governments before.
Just because something is technically possible, it’s no guarantee that it will be the chosen mechanism for something. More likely the contract will be awarded to either the lowest possible bidder, or to a friend of a friend. Cronyism is depressingly common at all levels.
Not sure why you are under that impression. I never discussed the potential chosen mechanism.
I stated that it is possible and that it is already implemented into the id card of many eu citizens.
isn’t the id unique? which means that sites can trace every visit you make and what videos you watch every time?
No. Thanks to cryptography it is possible. The Cincept is called Zero-knowledge proof. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-knowledge_proof
Here is a quick write up: https://www.identity.com/zero-knowledge-proofs/
thanks! if implemented correctly, this is a decent way of verifying age. Although I’d rather not have any but it’s definitely better than taking a selfie.
That’s still worrying: wouldn’t some central authority know that “site X requested age verification for this person”?
No. There is no 3rd party service needed. It all can happen only between the service asking and the id (smart card).
… and that’s different from the service having a record of your photo ID?
The service gets no other information other then “Is the holder of the id older then 18” => “Yes”
There is no personal data exchange.
Oh, so it’s just some other service knowing you, personally, visited a particular porn site.
And that’s completely immune to leaks or government snooping.
No. Again. There is no other service involved. Pls do some research.
The basic idea is ZKP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-knowledge_proof
This here looks like a good write up: https://www.identity.com/zero-knowledge-proofs/
I think we should stop, as a society, to try (and fail) to handle problems by imposing limits and obligation and start doing it with some fuckin large-scale massive education planning.
In this context: a smart boy/girl, with sexual/emotional education and good critical thinking can have access to all the porn in the world from teenage and be fine 99% of the time
Prohibition leads to black and grey markets, where what is produced and consumed is frequently even more corrupted and dangerous/risky in its acquisition and delivery than whatever you think of the corollaries in the lit markets. It may also drive more deviant and destructive behavior where they may hide their actions and produce more shame and be labeled criminals.
My only divergence would be that the education planning starts at each individual family level rather than large-scale massive education buracracy, which is what we have now and is failing badly to produce good results.
Maybe once that first order family circle is built strongly, you can begin to expand the circle of influence to extended family, neighbors, friends and community.
I disagree. Family education is very important, but it’s not something you can rely on. Just to point out some major problem:
- you leave behind everyone that have a problematic family
- even the most intelligent and benevolent parents will be just limited to their core value and experience, and education needs more
- education is a very complex process that needs professionals, especially considering a rapidly evolving context like today. You can’t ask a parent to be ALSO a professional educator. You need skills, training, experience.
I am fine with you disagreeing and forging your own path. I mean that sincerely. I would like to follow mine. We can each see how it works out.
Just please don’t force me to support your approach, financially or otherwise, by using the state/gov or others as a proxy for your personal wishes, and I will agree to the same, as I already do.
Edit: Also, do not use those same levers of power to form a cartel that excludes my family, or those who choose to do it this way from participating in public life. We can all get along with tolerance and respect, despite our differences.
Upvote for the civil discourse and laying out your reasoning.
We are just discussing here. Why are you assuming I’m trying to force something into you or your family? How would I do it?
I’m sorry, I think I’m missing the point of your answer. It’s a social and we’re just discussing opinions, nobody can decide anything about anything.
I know we are discussing it. I appreciate the discussion! You have been civil and a good conversationalist presenting your views with thoughtfulness so far. That’s rare on the socials sometimes.
I mean to drive at the manner of how you would accomplish your stated goals above. By voluntary enrollment of those interested who may agree with your approach? With the ability for those like myself who may live near you and who feel, think, believe and act differently to opt-out? Or by compulsory taxation, or other compulsory inclusion of my family in these services you pitch, with penalty of financial, legal, or violent force? For instance, no ability to peacefully remain in my location of birth and/or circumstance, but to opt out and to choose my own path AND choose not to pay for or participate in your scheme should I choose not to. Would that be acceptable?
I hope you can see the parallels I’m drawing to most regions in the world. I am compelled now to submit property tax and other tax for a similar model to what you describe above against my will, under threats, leading up to and including death, should I refuse to pay them, even if I choose not to participate in my neighbors preferred model. So thus under duress and extortion.
In this scenario, you (my neighbors) would not threaten me or use violence directly of course, but instead would use proxies with more manpower and weapons plus the false cloak of legitimacy or law to do it, which is cowardly and unjust. Beurocratic, legal and police action, again, up to and including violence, imprisonment and death force me to to comply to something I disagree with philosophically, morally, spiritually and logically. Today. Not hypothetically.
So what I’m saying is that I’m more than happy for you and yours to do things your way, even if I chose a different way. I wouldn’t compel you to fund or support my way. I would request you afford me the same courtesy and we could coexist in harmony, or at least not conflict, even if we disagree on approach.
This is not how the vast majority of modern society functions today. Which is why I’m curious about how you would approach your hypothetical model.
edit: spelling, clarity, fat fingers
And if they aren’t smart enough, they’ll get a shit ton super sexualised stuff from the day they see a screen anyways.
It’s just a power game, or the old “vote for me, those things are evil”. I say that as no one seems to blend in sex ed. Like at all.
Might be a stupid question but is there any peer reviewed research that shows that porn is harmful to minors? Early humans didn’t have clothes so minors were seeing nudity for centuries. Of course, there’s the issue that porn gives men unrealistic expectations about women & sex, but that’s an issue regardless of age.
Your question is not stupid, but comparing porn to casual nudity is.
Probably not, its just religious pearl clutching for the most part that has been passed down unnecessarily
Free the bodies, let everyone be naked and we will all stop giving a shit
Early human minors (until a century or two ago) used to have sex, engage in hebephilia and pedophilia, and underage teenage girls used to be mothers. This is how we still have grandmothers today who married and had kids before the age of 18. So yes, your question is wild and scientifically ignorant. Porn has always been harmful to minors, and in fact, specifically more to minors or anyone under the age of ~25, because that is when neural connections stop forming and adjusting. The neural linking and development starts to slow down by the age of 15. That makes underage minors even more vulnerable, as they hit puberty, have raging hormones and are also at risk of sexual abuse.
I don’t understand… your first couple sentences support my argument with evidence but then you say I’m wildly ignorant? Simply saying “their brains are still developing” and nothing else is a classic “protect the children” platitude
I am not supporting your argument, but only provided a pretext to the reasoning. Biochemistry of humans being used as objective reason is not a “classic” whatever politics you choose to engage in. Privacy will always be secondary to protecting the future generations, and no kind of freedom is going to be tolerated by society for something as pathetic as pornographic pleasures. Privacy may fundamentally be important, but there are a lot of things higher on the priority list, like freedom, mental sanity, health, societal prosperity and other things.
Let’s be real, teens, especially males, will actively search for porn. Blocklists can be pointless, because even if you can blacklist 160k pornhub clones, they can just join a discord or telegram server instead.
Frankly, I think parents should just make them aware that just like cinema, those videos are for show, not for “trying at home”. Parents should tell them that if they ever expect sex to be like in the porn they consume, they’ll be sorely disappointed. Most of it is faker than reality tv. Oh, it can also make boys get really fucking insecure, especially about their own size.
That’s not a problem in my opinion. Obviously teens are a big demographic for big sites like pornhub. And they will consume porn in one way or another. I would love it if they used more ethical porn platforms, but whatever it is it is.
The issue with these sites has always been that they will blast videos into your face as soon as you open the website, without the usual barrier to register first. And that makes it a problem for any child between 5 and 11 years old who might stumble onto that page because someone is pulling a prank or whatever. The un-natural, violent kind of porn promoted by sites like Pornhub should not be broadcasted into the minds of actually small children.
But I also feel that any random kid shouldn’t be able to just go to these sites and see porn freely.
At some point, you have to ask - why?
If that’s the alternative to spying on everyone, I’m still opposed to spying on everyone. Unsupervised internet access leading kids to pornography certainly would not be new. It’s not the end of the world.
Just throw your warnings and have a click-through. It’ll be just as effective, much cheaper, and not leave bastard politicians salivating about their social control fetish.
Raise thoughtful, moral children. They are going to see porn in our modern society. How they process it has to do a lot with the tools they have to do that. That’s the parents job. Not to pretend a 100% prohibition or firewall can be erected, but to raise resilient children who can thrive and not become irreparably damaged by the things they are exposed to in the world they grow into.
Recognition that they will come into contact with it also does not mean you have to endorse it or present them with it. It’s not a binary thing. Choose how you want to parent and observe the results of different approaches. YMMV.
We have 3rd party verification services already, just use those. 🤷 They’re pretty good at verifying I’m a vet, I’m sure they can confirm that you definitely exist.
I agree with you, gimme back my checkbox, but it’d be better than “give the porn site your ID.”
Kids are smart. Horny teenagers even more so. They will find loopholes or ways to circumvent these kind of things - speaking from experience. At age 13 I installed a keylogger on my PC to get the password for a parental control software my parents installed. Roughly one year later I also exploited a vulnerability in iOS 4 that allowed me to see the parental controls password in plaintext so I could re-enable Safari.
Mr.hacker man? Lol Yeah adding restrictions is like the alchol prohibition in the US. Restricing it is going to make it more prevlent and easily acessible. There may be more sites that pop up that boot leg it. Kinda like schools with cool math games being blocked so you have unblocked games websites.
My first exposure to porn was through sprays in TF2. Kids are gonna see this shit regardless of how much you invade everyone else’s privacy
I’m getting flashbacks to Counter Strike. It’s been a long time since I’ve thought of sprays in games.
Is it the responibility of any government to enforce a parental policy? What if I, as a parent, support my kid to view this stuff?
At home, I was allowed to have alcohol with supper at family meals from about 13.
I feel like the regulations should be to give parents control over their child’s activities if they so choose. While we’re at it, make it illegal to collect information about a person, parent or child, without their express concent. I don’t know how, but there are many smart people in the world that can probably figure it out.
Any so called privacy law that enriches and ensures that age verification data brokers make bank is fundamentally and irrevocably broken.
