Recognize the role of the US empire in Palestinian oppression. Recognize that jews are in an ambivalent racial category and are an oppressed people. Be specific when criticizing Israeli colonialism. Name who you’re criticizing, is it the settlements? The IDF? Likud? The US military Industrial Complex? Stop calling for ethnic cleansing of jews if you’ve been doing that. Don’t equate jewishness with whiteness / the Nazis. White people are white people, the US is the Nazis.

Why isn’t “Israel” on your list of OK to criticize groups? The colonialist state of Israel needs to be destroyed and wiped off the face of the earth, and this is not anti-semitic to say. I’ve not seen one person on this site blaming all jews for anything. Can you provide even a single example of this that wasn’t quickly removed by mods? Stop vague posting and concern trolling if you don’t have an explicit example, now is not the time to center the attention on yourself.

“Antisemite” is basically another word for “whataboutism”. Also actual anti-semites get the too

And since the Apartheid in South Africa ended 30 years ago, accusing anyone critical of apartheid rule of being a communist sympathizer grew out of fashion, so there was an “urgent” need to find a new label

say the line, bart

Semi-joking aside, I know where to not point the finger at. On the contrary also, it’s the people who make this accusation who themselves let it slip. The irony isn’t lost when the likes of Miko Peled and Ronnie Kasrils, along with groups such as SAJFP, JVP and B’tselem consistently get pelted with the “antisemite” accusations on the regular.

Many Israelis are liberals, hoping to vote out Likud, stop supporting settlements, and negotiate palestinian statehood. These people are advocating half measures, sure, but they are not our enemies.

Maybe they aren’t your enemies, but they’re mine. Fuck off with this lib bullshit. It’s not only rge recent settlements in, eg the West Bank, that are settlements, ALL Zionists in Palestine are settlers, even those who are heckin wholesome liberals who think Palestinians can have a little of their stolen land back. Your post is soft Zionist apologia, and I think it’s gross

how the fuck is Israel “a save place for jews” … what … did i miss the bronx calling a intifada or London needing a Iron Dome … ?

I’m going to quibble with your claim that Israel is a safe haven for Jews. This attack should have ended this claim forever. There is no way Jewish people are safer in Israel than they would be in the us, Canada, the uk, France, Germany, etc.

Secondly, why do Jews need a homeland to be safe? No other group that has been attacked through history ever has been supported in creating an ethnostate in order to protect them. Where is the demand for Roma to have a state to protect that from racism in Europe? Where are the calls to give the descendants of enslaved Africans to be given a state they can control in order to be protected?

Antisemitism is a real problem, and as leftists we must always call it out just as we do for any other form of oppression. I will continue to my best at this as well, and pretty much agree with the specific arguments you make in the rest of your post

Israel is also a safe haven for Jews

Maybe some specific strands of Jewish people. As long as they are white or European or American or however you wanna categorise them. Ethiopian jews are ghettoised and forcibly sterilised.

I’ve seen a lot of posts on this site that are leaning into anti semitic tropes while criticizing Israel.

This is a pretty strong claim to make without presenting any evidence. In fact, is an extremely common thing reactionaries will say, and if any evidence is eventually presented, 99% it’s something inanely unoffensive like a lot of words for “free parking” or “plz no murder”.

For anyone who choose to read my comment but not the rest of OP’s post, the rest of OP’s post does have good points about not using terms that can be interpreted as antisemitic dog-whistles.

IMO rephrasing this as an educational PSA instead an accusation would be better.

Ethnostates are always bad, Israel would still be bad if it were in Florida.

I’m just here to say the Romanov children deserved it

Conclusion: “blame America, Israel didn’t do nothing at all”

or maybe it’s both. Kinda like in Ukraine, America is to blame and so is Ukraine. But Ukraine isn’t a religion based ethnostate so it’s not a hate crime to criticize them fortunately. The need to suddenly be verrrrry specific with words because Israel are a nation of mostly Jewish people(and mostly settlers) is hilarious. Israel sure did find the loop hole. Israel has sovereignty, they can choose to not be a vassal state at any time they choose.

Don’t equate jewishness with the Nazis

simply the amount of segregation and police checkpoints for Arabs earns them that comparison. the IDF must say “papers please” so many times each day.

To be Jewish is fine.

To be a Zionist is to be a fascist of the same order as those that pursued Lebensraum and Manifest Destiny. They are villains and should never feel safe wherever they go.

P.S.

It’s a pretty easy distinction to make in that you (probably) don’t choose to be Jewish but you do choose to be a Zionist. A Jewish Zionist is awful not because of their being Jewish but because of their goals of ethnic cleansing and militaristic expansionism under the guise of “reclaiming a historic/prophesized homeland”; a non-Jewish Zionist is a Fascist using religion/past persecution/etc. to launder their bloodlust.

Have there been any actual calls for ethnic cleansing or assertions of blood libel by Hexbears??? I want to say the most egregious thing I’ve seen posted by Hexbears is ‘Isreal’ instead of ‘Israel’. Not saying it couldn’t or didn’t happen - just curious because I’d expect better from the average poster on here.

Just to preface, I do think that we can benefit from being more aware of anti-semetic tropes. Many fascist dogwhistles do disguise themselves in language and symbolism that appears harmless or even resembles valid critique, such that even well-meaning people can reference them by mistake. I think of Corbyn for instance, nobody ought to doubt his sincerity but clearly he made a few unforced errors here or there that helped feed Labour antisemitism hysteria.

So I’m all for, here’s some common anti-Semitic tropes, now you know so you can avoid them. And in particular, I would say “Be specific… Name who you’re criticizing” is pretty solid advice. With that said: I do think there’s some here that’s a little problematic, and nobody else has quite articulated what I’m feeling so let me put this out here:

First, many have mentioned the timing of this post at a moment of serious crisis as not feeling right. I want to emphasize the issue isn’t so much that it’s “tone-policing,” but rather, that it plays into colonialist narratives. Personally I’m fine with having to tread carefully around sensitive topics, but I’m decidedly not fine with the pervasiveness of the right-wing narrative that the Palestine liberation movement and even the Left as a whole is somehow intrinsically antisemitic. And when you point vaguely to “a lot of posts … leaning into anti-Semitic tropes” without contextualizing who or what posts or how they were received by the community, that does sound a bit like a repackaging of this “left/Palestine/BDS antisemitic” narrative, which has been used as a major political cudgel to resist change to the status quo.

Now, in another moment, some self-crit in how we approach dismantling this narrative might be warranted, even if outsiders were to take it as a tacit admission of a problem. But at the moment of truth where you’ve got 500 dead in a hospital airstrike and troops lining up for a ground invasion, the “Left antisemitism issue” is really not the discussion we want to be having. (It is worth noting, to OP’s credit, discussions of issues internal to the Left are, regardless of situation, much, much more appropriate on a platform like Hexbear where those discussions will mostly remain internal to the Left, than they would be on a platform where we’re engaging with a broader public to be swayed such as :reddit-logo: .)

That’s really the main issue here, but as to a couple of the more specific gripes:

~“Conflating Jews in Israel…” - More or less agree with OP’s points here, but I do think it is worth recognizing that this is, in a real sense, a religious sectarian conflict. I suppose you could say it’s superstructural, but when Israel legally defines itself as a state for Jews and only Jews, that’s where they (the Israeli state) are looking to draw the lines, and that’s what we have to combat. In other words, no, this is not a problem with Jews or Judaism, but also: Israel cannot be a Jewish state.

~“calling for ethnic cleansing” - OP says “Jews have always lived [there],” but this is imho minimizing just how much of the population is part of or descended from the colonial project. Wikipedia is telling me the Israeli Jewish population went from <100k in 1915, to over a million by 1949, to nearly 5 million at the turn of the century, and over 6.5 million today. That’s not organic population growth, that’s a massive influx of people who came in and took land where there were already other people.

Now, I agree that full-out sending away all the Israeli Jews is not and should not be on the table. Not only do some have claims predating the settler influx, but I imagine even many of the settlers and their descendants don’t have much place else they can go and still ought to be treated humanely. That said, I think we ought to be realistic and recognize that the Palestinians have been forced from their homes, in some cases quite recently, and in the case of Gaza forced into a tiny little area, very densely populated and lacking basic infrastructure. If we’re going to have justice, it’s not going to come without a lot of reparations and frankly probably some degree of land back and right to return. The more recent and more wealthy of the settlers probably should leave.

~“Jewish control of America” - OP says “America controls Israel and not vice-versa”… it’s really more of a two-way street. Israel and AIPAC/Israel lobby just very much do have serious sway over American politicians and honestly Western politicians more generally. Israel is an independent state and functions as one, at times annoying people in Washington who want them to do their ethnic cleansing a little more quietly. That said, it also goes without saying that Israel’s prosperity is dependent on some measure of servitude to American geopolitical interests, and that framing Israeli influence as “Jewish control” is very much :haram: .

That’s all I got. Hadn’t planned for this to be such an effortpost but :shrug-outta-hecks:

I’ve seen a lot of posts on this site that are leaning into anti semetic tropes while criticizing Israel. I want to point it out so that folks can recognize it.

You should take the opportunity to give examples of those posts and call them out directly by name and date of registration. Because I can’t imagine anyone leaning into anti-semitic tropes is anything but a reactionary wrecker. I don’t think you would accuse anyone of being anti-semitic in bad faith but it’s important to remember that this is the number one technique of the ultranationalist lobbyists of Israel when it comes to silencing or slandering pro-palestinian voices. And it’s a very good technique on their part because of the very grim and important history of antisemitism, mostly coming from the very nations funding Israeli settler-colonialism in Palestine.

Israel is a colonial outpost of the United States. It was created by Britain and inherited by the US. The US gives Israel ~3,000,000,000 USD in aid every year. As a colony, it should be the goal of every socialist to destroy it, just as we seek the destruction of the US, Northern Ireland, South Korea, Canada, the Phillipine state, etc.

And those same lobbyists would call you anti-semitic for proposing the destruction of the Israeli settler-colony. So it’s important to remember that the word “anti-semitic” is currently undergoing a semantic decomposition, a “Boy Who Cried Wolf” effect, where the neolib and neocon reactionaries of the imperial core are rendering the word utterly meaningless through their deceptive rhetoric. one of the unfortunate side effects of this, is that actual antisemitic nazis are going to see an opportunity to take advantage of the outpouring of support for Palestinians, and use it to worm their way into mainstream political discourse. This is why we should name these posts and quote them directly, rather than vaguely gesturing that they exist, so that these accounts can get take care and removed from our platform which has never in any way supported anti-semitism.

in fact, annexing Florida to create a new state of Israel is what I mean when i refer to “the one state solution”

Give Florida back to the Seminoles and Miccosukee and other remaining First Nations.

Conflating Jews in Israel with Zionists.

Jewish control of America / protocols of the elders of zion

Please call out and report these posts. These should be grounds for automatic bans.

People are absolutely, if unintentionally, calling for ethnic cleansing